Police encounters in South Africa

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

I live in South Africa and have travelled all over SA and parts of Africa. I’ve never paid a bribe or been solicited for one. I’m not saying at all that it doesn’t happen and I can certainly believe foreigners are much more likely to be solicited for one. My advice, is always remain respectful and keep calm if you’re detained by SAPS. They’re under trained and more often than not ignorant of the laws they’re supposed to enforce. Africans love respect from Europeans, call them sir and show them respect even if it’s not deserved. Apologise profusely even if you know you’re in the right. In the past calling them “chief” or “brother” would accomplish the same thing, it’s seen as condescending nowadays and will likely have the opposite effect. Don’t be tempted to offer a bribe even if implied. It can blow up in your face and only serves to reinforce that behaviour. Remember if you’re on the right side of the law, they have to backtrack at some point. If you’re on the wrong side, there’s a ton of paperwork and procedures to follow that they have little appetite for.

We deal with these things everyday, permits and licensing requirements etc are an absolute nightmare for outfitters. Then there’s also the everyday things that would be simple in a developed country but ever so bureaucratic here. Very frustrating but I know from experience that if you lose your cool with an official it’s almost impossible to get anything resolved after that.

 

[Green Chile]

This discussion is also applicable to those who are carrying scopes in your carry-on. We've seen issues with that this season. I would keep them in my gun case. I do take my binos in my carry-on and have never been asked about that or even had them removed for hand inspection so far.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Honestly for reasons like this is why I consider renting a firearm more often than not. Try to stay under the radar as much as possible.

I do have 2 funny stories, going through Ethiopia once, I had a cigar punch on my key chain. Going through scanning, the guy pulls me aside and says it is a bullet. I laugh and go no it is for cigars, he said it was a bullet and he needed to get his supervisor. Supervisor comes over and is looking at it, I ask if I can show him that it is for a cigar, I take a cigar and punch it. The supervisor was laughed and was satisfied but as I walked away he was given that agent an earful.

The other time coming back and going through Ethiopia, they are counting bullets and apparently there is 12 and the guy in Zimbabwe wrote 14, he asked where the other 2 bullets were and I could see he was upset. I said I don't think the guy in Harare can count. He immediately calmed down and said yes that is it. And off I went.

And to everyone who has brought a turkey in check luggage, I have been there and gotten some looks, the feet really freaked a nice lady in Orlando.

 

[375Fox]

Thanks for sharing. I think too many Americans don’t consider how regulated firearms and ammunition are outside the country. I would not bring brass, bullets, or anything recognizable as gun parts to Africa with me unless it was on my permit. Most individuals will probably get away with it a few times, but eventually it will cause a problem. I really don’t think the officers were looking for a bribe. You don’t call extra witnesses in when trying to get a bribe. It’s done quietly. I think this is a case of uneducated overzealous officers trying to do their job as they see it. I see it more frequently the smaller the airport is because I think they want a better assignment and see it as a way to get their name out there.

 

[375Fox]

As already mentioned, both were simply shakedown attempts. I was appalled at how many times I was told "for $10 I don't have to open your gun case"

If I was going to sell my integrity, it would be for more than ten bucks.
But, if I had no integrity, I guess $10 is a windfall.

It’s funny, I’ve never heard that once on 13 safaris in multiple countries. I get tired of seeing hunters here try to spread misinformation about bribes. It’s more likely to get you into trouble especially if you go with mindset of thinking bribes will make things easier. Bribes (if done) are done very quietly and indirectly. No one says directly for $10 you don’t have to open your gun case especially in front of others. They’ll pretend to help and ask something like “what do you have for me.” I’ve also never had this happen in South Africa, only countries further north.

 

[Sabre]

Thank you for sharing.

Even if asked, I would not be interested in traveling to/through other countries with gun parts or ammo components. I just don't need the problems of that added risk even if it is legal.

I agree that sometimes the hassle you get over these things is because of people that are unfamiliar or uneducated about firearms, optics, ammo, etc.

However, the bribery issue is huge, especially in SA. I disagree that it's all or even mostly because of misunderstandings. It is often because of a desire for bribes. I think it's a good idea to go through SA with the understanding that it is possible, and relatively common, for many people to try and get money from you for "tips" and for bribes. It isn't of any benefit to be completely naive of this or act as if it isn't something to watch out for.

Yes, often they will try when there is just one of them and you and no other witnesses. But this certainly isn't always the case.

 

[Foxi]

It’s funny, I’ve never heard that once on 13 safaris in multiple countries. I get tired of seeing hunters here try to spread misinformation about bribes. It’s more likely to get you into trouble especially if you go with mindset of thinking bribes will make things easier. Bribes (if done) are done very quietly and indirectly. No one says directly for $10 you don’t have to open your gun case especially in front of others. They’ll pretend to help and ask something like “what do you have for me.” I’ve also never had this happen in South Africa, only countries further north.

In Corona times at Harare airport, I had stupidly neglected to take a screenshot of the PCR test and I couldn't show the test I got at home before departure.They accepted only PCR- no normal Quick-Test. But no WLan or something else at the moment there.
So I had to do a PCR test there and then, to my incredulous amazement that I would get the result immediately, they nodded very decisively.
I had to make the test and soon as I paid the 60.- USD I was immediately discharged and I have still not received the result until today


On the onward flight from Joburg to Zimb.
an official who issued the gun permit and carried out the check said to me in front of three colleagues:
for 100.- USD I also get the connecting flight....

People, we all know what it's like in countries where corruption is part of the monthly income.
I could list a few more examples where they tried to get money, or ask the local people when they drive into one of the numerous roadblocks......

Of course there is bribery here too, of course, but it is very secretive in the upper echelons, not so obvious.
I wouldn't dare to give the policeman 50.- USD at a driver's license check here or in the USA so that he would let me drive on in peace.

 

[Frederik]

https://www.saps.gov.za/services/flash/firearms/legislation/gov_notice_english.pdf

If you have the time to read here is the full firearm Laws and Regulation of RSA.
Nowhere is a brass case or bullets as components mentioned we have laws for Ammunition and firearms and certain firearm parts which is described.

The SAPS officers must have each have passed competency themselves to carry firearms and have to go through the laws and know them like the citizens do who would like to posses firearms.

Either the officers have completey forgot their training and the laws or looking for a hussle.

An interesting note a primed Case is actually considered as Live ammo.

 

[Philip Glass]

Coming back through Harare in July I had to explain to the 5 inspectors in one room what’s the difference between an empty case and a live round.

This happened when they looked through my ammo when exiting the country and one inspector grabbed a live .470 round and an empty piece of .470 brass and asked…..

“What is the difference in this…. And this?!!!”

I had to explain this 3 times before he was satisfied.

This Is Africa!

 

[Skshyk]

Hence the reason I always have a bunch of 10's & 20's ready when going through inspection a lot of times when asked a question about anything I give them a bill and say thank you for your help and most times problems are solved. I know most people don't agree with it but if I can get away with a tip then questions its worth it for me.

 

[BRICKBURN]

You guys just reminded me of a similar experience upon leaving RSA through OR Tambo.
After the regular security check without any issue it was apparently decided by the powers that be to do a secondary security check of all passengers in the gate area. (Some SAPS folks present.)
Empty pockets, bags and get screened again etc..

During my turn I pull my gps out of my cargo pants pocket place it on the table along with everything else. You could see the alarm in the guys face when he saw it. He picked it up momentarily and placed it back down. I told him; "It's a GPS!" with that look on my face of complete incredulity while simultaneously shaking my head.
He turned to try and bring his entire band of merry men over at which point I put the offending article back in my pocket, grabbed my stuff and carried on.
Magically, everything was fine when I was no longer standing there to be examined.
Narrow escape!

 

[Green Chile]

I've never heard the $10 to not open the case comment...that's with a lot of travels and miles covered. I have no problem opening the case and following the rules...but they don't understand the rules to follow.

To Brickburn's comment, whenever they get confused and start calling in reinforcements is when you know it's going to get weird. They start coming up with all kinds of weird ideas...like empty brass is a bomb and you're a smuggler and we should arrest you for being here today. I wish they could see us as commerce and economy for their country and our experiences are important to future experiences but that important piece seems lost to them.

 

[BRICKBURN]

This is like a bunch of flash backs for me. I'm going to need therapy.

Self driving in the middle of no where Eastern Cape. It is pitch black out with no moon. There are no street lights and the lights signifying the petrol station is operating are marginal at best.
I pull into the pump to fill up for the long trip to the rental and am still wearing obvious hunting clothing, when an SAPS patrol comes in for fuel.
It is readily apparent that I am "not from around here". The questions ensue. Polite inquiry that can easily go sideways I am certain.
The standard what are you up to question comes and I say I am hunting. The next question was coming in quick reply. "Where are your guns?"
My reply: "They are safe!" with a knowing smile on my face.
The cop just nods and smiles and the questions stop.
I pay and depart with a hearty have a nice evening and a wave.

That be calm and polite direction is a good one to follow.

 

[skydiver386]

Having travelled to nearly every country in Asia and the Pacific, I learned the easy way to avoid this type of situation.

You leave a pair of dirty drawers with a big skid mark plainly visible when they open your bag, and I GUARANTEE they are going to move you along as rapidly as possible.

Another helpful hint from your old Uncle Darrell.

 

[degoins]

I wish they could see us as commerce and economy for their country and our experiences are important to future experiences but that important piece seems lost to them.

Bingo!!

 

[Nyati]

To be fair, during my first 4 safaris in SA I did bring my own guns, without the assistance of any "meet and assist", and never paid a bribe to SAPS.

 

[VertigoBE]

You guys just reminded me of a similar experience upon leaving RSA through OR Tambo.
After the regular security check without any issue it was apparently decided by the powers that be to do a secondary security check of all passengers in the gate area. (Some SAPS folks present.)
Empty pockets, bags and get screened again etc..

During my turn I pull my gps out of my cargo pants pocket place it on the table along with everything else. You could see the alarm in the guys face when he saw it. He picked it up momentarily and placed it back down. I told him; "It's a GPS!" with that look on my face of complete incredulity while simultaneously shaking my head.
He turned to try and bring his entire band of merry men over at which point I put the offending article back in my pocket, grabbed my stuff and carried on.
Magically, everything was fine when I was no longer standing there to be examined.
Narrow escape!

I might be mistaken, but I have a faint picture in my mind from an older thread, that you are not exactly the most inconspicuous looking? And would stick out head and shoulders above most people in that gate area?

 

[VertigoBE]

All these "horror stories", does make me think that keeping my firearms locally is perhaps not the worst idea...

 

[Green Chile]

All these "horror stories", does make me think that keeping my firearms locally is perhaps not the worst idea...

I hear you for sure. I just want people to know that there can be issues on things that are not regulated. The best approach is keeping it very simple and clear on the paperwork. You might STILL have confusion but that's the best you can do. If you do have confusion, do NOT get all worked up. Calm is the best approach. That's the whole reason I shared this topic...not to get everyone to agree with me but to have some discussion about it and maybe save someone a headache and even potentially criminal charges.

 

[K-man]

I’ve never paid a “fee” to an official in charge or whatever. I was very close once as the “official” was bound and determined to hold me in the little windowless room at the airport until I missed my flight. He suggested that the “permit” would be $20. I said sure then held up my phone to take a selfie with him and the $20 bill. He said no pictures and I said no $. He immediately said I could go. Amazing how that worked.