Police encounters in South Africa

[JimP]

From reading this I saw that the problem came up with bringing something into SA that wasn't declared that should of been. Lesson learned.

I have only been to SA twice. Both times I used a service to get my permits approved and to walk me through the Joberg airport, neither time was there any problems. The nice thing having one of these companies walk you through is that you have a local that knows the rules and regulations and if a problem comes up you have a knowledgeable person fighting for you.

 

[Green Chile]

Yes and no Jim. I always use the permits process as you do. If you read the original posts, there was no issue at OR Tambo and their SAPS saw the brass/bullets and made no comment. The issue was after that at the next airport.

Terminology matters and there is no declaration form for brass/bullets. It's not ammo by legal definition. When I asked how you declare something like components, that's a rhetorical question. You can't declare what isn't provided for on the forms or where does it end? You can disagree with my declaration comments but the lawyer that came to help us specifically referenced that and how it was not to be declared since the form didn't provide or ask for that info. Do you declare your watch, iPad and boots or are you smuggling them in 1 at a time?

 

[BRICKBURN]

I might be mistaken, but I have a faint picture in my mind from an older thread, that you are not exactly the most inconspicuous looking? And would stick out head and shoulders above most people in that gate area?

Just a tad. 201cm and the weight to carry it along. It is funny how irritation in my voice and on my face carry pretty quickly to the more diminutive folks.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I can't imagine what would have happened if your PH wasn't present? Not sure if this point was made already, but it definitely makes a difference to have someone with you.

There was a major accident on the freeway before the airport that had us backed up in traffic for almost an extra hour for my flight out of SA this Sept. My PH came with me into the airport just to help with my gear and see me off. We got locked in the small office room upstairs where the SAPS guys wanted to check my rifle numbers and permit. The damned door handle wasn't functioning after it closed and for a moment I thought I might miss my flight because they were acting like they didn't know what to do! They were acting like they had no one to call and just kept screwing with the door handle. Finally another SAPS officer/agent came and opened the door from the outside. Henk and I were just staring at each other in disbelief... Having him there lessoned the tension for me. I still had plenty of time, but it was uncomfortable.

 

[Rare Breed]

From reading this I saw that the problem came up with bringing something into SA that wasn't declared that should of been. Lesson learned.

I have only been to SA twice. Both times I used a service to get my permits approved and to walk me through the Joberg airport, neither time was there any problems. The nice thing having one of these companies walk you through is that you have a local that knows the rules and regulations and if a problem comes up you have a knowledgeable person fighting for you.

no better money spent!

 

[Doug Hamilton]

This is very typical in South Africa and happens a lot.
Most police is corrupt to the bone and they'll always try to hassle you to get a bribe if there's any little thing out of place.
As they say "what's the speed limit in South Africa? Answer is: 1000 Rands"

This reminds me of my last trip to Zimbabwe in 2024. I had no issues in SA but in Zim a female officer went through my gear then asked if I wanted to leave a "tip." I asked why she asked. She said, " The guys appreciate it." Since they had already handled my things, I said "no" and moved on with the PH who was waiting I know Africa isn't the US, but I was still a little surprised that someone in uniform would blatantly ask for a bribe in front of other people. I even thought that they may had been looking to extort more money for bribing an official. Nothing happened, but it was weird. I hadn't seen this in Africa before and wonder if things are getting worse.

 

[Ed Lally]

We were leaving Zimbabwe after a Caoe Buffalo hunt for a week of PG hunting in SA. I had fired 2 rounds from my Krieghoff .470NE. One into a cardboard box at 50 yards and one into my Cape Buffalo at 40 yards. I had also brought an R8 in .458 Lott. I had gifted over a dozen Lott rounds to my PH. On originally arriving in Zimbabwe, I had declared all of my ammunition and on leaving, was missing 2 .470 rounds and the afore mentioned Lott ammo. I ended up in a room with my rifles being inspected and my ammo counted and recounted by one very large “officer in charge” and 5 of his subordinates. Questions about where I hunted, what animals did see, what did I shoot, etc., etc., leading up to questions on the missing ammo. They started out slow and then increased the pace of the questioning and the volume of their voices. I stayed calm, answered each question slowly and always with the same answer, ending with my confession that I was not a very good shot. SILENCE!!! Then the big guy slaps me on the back with a big laugh and says “Finally, I meet an honest man!!! All laugh and walk out of the room with the last guy saying “You can leave, have a safe trip!”

 

[Frederik]

Yes and no Jim. I always use the permits process as you do. If you read the original posts, there was no issue at OR Tambo and their SAPS saw the brass/bullets and made no comment. The issue was after that at the next airport.

Terminology matters and there is no declaration form for brass/bullets. It's not ammo by legal definition. When I asked how you declare something like components, that's a rhetorical question. You can't declare what isn't provided for on the forms or where does it end? You can disagree with my declaration comments but the lawyer that came to help us specifically referenced that and how it was not to be declared since the form didn't provide or ask for that info. Do you declare your watch, iPad and boots or are you smuggling them in 1 at a time?

Exactly as I posted the full laws, Brass and Bullets do not fall under the firearm laws only ammunition so if you don't have a form to declare them you don't need to.
Mayde just keep the pdf on your phone I'm sure if you would show it that most of them would instantly recgonize you know more than they do.

 

[Hunt anything]

In 2018 my hunting partner was detained in Johannesburg for having 1 empty in his carry on bag. That lasted about an hour.

I have carried recovered bullets from game home from all of my hunts. I usually throw them in my shaving kit in my checked baggage. No problem so far.

 

[MATTANJA HUNTING SAFARIS]

Same thing happened to me a couple of years ago at Beit Bridge(border between SA & Zim). Went through with my rifle and ammo, everything declared and all good. On the way back on the Zim side they checked my rifle and permit and all good. When they checked my ammo they pulled out a live round and put it back then pulled out a casing and asked where the powder and bullet was that goes into the casing…
The more I explained to them the less they understood, at some point there was about 5 or 6 intelligence officers around me asking the same thing and no one knows the basics of how a round works when fired. After about 30 minutes a customs officer got there, checked my rifle, ammo and permit and send me on my way.

 

[MATTANJA HUNTING SAFARIS]

In @Green Chile case with the brass and bullets, remember this was at Polokwane Airport. SAPS at OR Tambo did see the casings and bullets and cleared it, if there was any problem with it or needed to be on a permit SAPS at OR Tambo would have sorted it out.
I think the officers at Polokwane just don’t know what the law says and try to enforce it their own way, which was not the correct way…

 

[BryceM]

I've had mostly good experiences, but a couple of bad ones. First, my experiences in Namibia. The airport in Windhoek is usually fine. The passport control people can be a bit grumpy, but if you fill out the form correctly they usually just stamp your passport and wave you through. Customs is more or less a non-issue. The firearms permit folks are genuinely helpful. They built a dedicated firearms counter a few years back and they truly act like they're happy to have you there hunting, and happy to have the business. Lost bag? They'll actually go look for it. I've carried reloading components plenty of times. No issues yet, but the PH told me to leave them home last time. Some of his hunters had to pay an import duty of a few dollars. Seemed official, receipt and everything, but just a hassle.

A decade back, after a delayed flight I arrived to an empty firearms counter at the airport. It used to be behind a little window in the baggage area prior to customs. One of the baggage guys recommended I go look for a policeman. I walked back and forth through the security doors a half-dozen times before I finally found someone. Nobody was watching. Nobody cared. Try that in the USA. It seems to be a little more legit now.

I had an overnight in Joberg a few trips back and had to go through the import process. I had done everything correctly...... or so I thought. It turns out I was one photocopy short of what they wanted for the permit. No amount of conversation was helping. During the hour-long wait, I watched a dozen SAPS officers use the copier and I asked my new friend if he could just make a copy. "The copy machine is broken, wink, wink." For 20 bucks the copy machine magically started working again, and I was on my way.

I brought 50 rounds of ammo on one trip and the officer in Joberg had to count them for his paperwork. They were in an ammo box, 5 rows and 10 columns. Multiplication was clearly not his strong suit. He tried five or six times, lost count, started over, and finally just took my word for it. Had to explain that the headstamp on the cartridge doesn't always match the text on the barrel...... "Why do you have .300 WBY norma ammo when your rifle only says .300 WBY?" I'm not sure what I came up with, but he bought it.......

 

[Rare Breed]

This reminds me of my last trip to Zimbabwe in 2024. I had no issues in SA but in Zim a female officer went through my gear then asked if I wanted to leave a "tip." I asked why she asked. She said, " The guys appreciate it." Since they had already handled my things, I said "no" and moved on with the PH who was waiting I know Africa isn't the US, but I was still a little surprised that someone in uniform would blatantly ask for a bribe in front of other people. I even thought that they may had been looking to extort more money for bribing an official. Nothing happened, but it was weird. I hadn't seen this in Africa before and wonder if things are getting worse.

Just my experience…I have found what you describe in Harare not in Vic Falls. I will do just about anything to not go through the former

 

[vlwtx348]

It’s funny, I’ve never heard that once on 13 safaris in multiple countries. I get tired of seeing hunters here try to spread misinformation about bribes. It’s more likely to get you into trouble especially if you go with mindset of thinking bribes will make things easier. Bribes (if done) are done very quietly and indirectly. No one says directly for $10 you don’t have to open your gun case especially in front of others. They’ll pretend to help and ask something like “what do you have for me.” I’ve also never had this happen in South Africa, only countries further north.

If you want to discuss it, I'll buy lunch.
Pretty bold to call a man a liar, who has nothing to gain from lying.

 

[Rare Breed]

If you want to discuss it, I'll buy lunch.
Pretty bold to call a man a liar, who has nothing to gain from lying.

I know @375Fox and I promise he would not call someone on AH a lier. He is just stating his experience and point of view. I have you all beat…In Harare I had the person demand $1000 from me…I just laughed at him and asked for an officer who was close to us to please come over as I was having a problem…the problem guy immediately stamped my pass port and let me through

 

[375Fox]

I know @375Fox and I promise he would not call someone on AH a lier. He is just stating his experience and point of view. I have you all beat…In Harare I had the person demand $1000 from me…I just laughed at him and asked for an officer who was close to us to please come over as I was having a problem…the problem guy immediately stamped my pass port and let me through

I appreciate the comment but I think I worded my response to @vlwtx348 too strongly. However, it really frustrates me seeing hunters putting information out there about their bad experience without asking what mistake they made. It discourages others from trying to take their rifles because they think it’s a hassle. If a hunter is getting harassed for small bribes in South Africa I think they should consider what they’ll do differently next time or why they were targeted when others weren’t. I’ve never been asked for a bribe in South Africa. Taking rifles there and through there is very easy.

 

[Fatback]

I’ve never had an issue at OR Tambo in 6 trips. I do use Gracy Travel for all of my rifle permitting and I believe that has helped considerably in this regard. I did my first hunt in Zimbawe this year and had the “small, dark room” experience on my way home in Vic Falls. There were 5 or 6 guys in there and they checked my rifles and ammo. I had left my extra 458 Win ammo and brass with the PH and they were real curious as to why I didn’t have any left. Just told them it took quite a few to sight in and the buffalo was tuff and needed quite a few as well. They talked amongst themselves for a bit and then decided to let me go on my way.

The only other airport issue I’ve ever had wasn’t in Africa but was in Edmonton, Alberta after a deer hunt up there. What I’ve always done coming home from up there is being my cape and antlers home with me. The antlers go in a plastic tote that gets duct taped up and the cape is rolled up and put into my carry on bag and the whole things is left outside to freeze solid then comes with me on the plane home. In 9 trips previously it had never been an issue. Well his time when the nag goes through the X-ray at security I can see the worker stop and run it back a couple of times and I get called to the side. He shows me on the X-ray that a perfectly mushroomed Aframe is still in the hide. They would not let me through security with a mushroomed bullet, encased in a frozen mule deer hide through. I had to go back into the airport, buy another small suitcase and check a 3rd bag. That little slip up cost me several hundred $$s and a lesson learned. I guess it was so cold when we were skinning that deer we just missed the bullet in the hide. I know they have jobs to do but just a bit of common sense would let anybody know that mushroomed bullet wasn’t a danger to anything or anyone.

 

[KurtVH]

It was interesting that they never asked us directly for a bribe...and we didn't offer that either. I felt like what we had done was not illegal but offering a bribe is illegal (even though it happens a lot). When we left them to talk, the attorney worked that out. I didn't ask what was said but the result was obvious.

I've always found the best thing to do in these situations is to tell the person you are dealing with that you didn't understand you were doing anything wrong, that you're very sorry for you ignorance, and that you'd like to pay the fine immediately.

 

[Boris11]

its quite usual and its nothing. and this is not the first time, i have actually been told a similar story just going to delay your schedule for that day

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Just my experience…I have found what you describe in Harare not in Vic Falls. I will do just about anything to not go through the former

Bulawsyo.