PHASA Captive Bred Lion Hunting

[Nyati]

@PHOENIX PHIL, I don´t give a s**t about the antis, when I put down an animal, I only look upon myself.

Did I really deserve to take this animal´s life ?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@PHOENIX PHIL, I don´t give a s**t about the antis, when I put down an animal, I only look upon myself.

Did I really deserve to take this animal´s life ?

I don't either and I think we should being asking that question whenever we hunt. I know I've thought on a number of occasions, "that was too easy" and other times how hard I worked and came up empty.

Regardless, I think it a good question to ask to keep ourselves humble and to have respect for the animal's life.

 

[LivingTheDream]

This is classic divide and conquer. Look today it is CBL, then anything behind a fence, then anything with hounds, then anything over bait. I can hear the anti's now applying this strategy to the US "Why not make it public grounds, tax payers dollars are being paid for those and I don't want my tax dollars being used so a manic with a gun can kill Bambi". And all of us don't give a hoot about the anti's opinion...in fact of the hard core ones there is probably less of them than us, but they are winning the hearts and minds of the non hunters. And some of you will say it is because of CBL we need to stop it, but we are our own worse enemy coming on here and saying they are drugged and released 30 minutes before...PHASA and SAPA tries to put guidelines and tries to make it as ethical as possible and we, emphasis on we, hunters go "who is going to enforce it, I don't think it can be enforced, it's a scam, follow the money", etc.

What are they trying to do with Elephants? I heard an advertisement on the radio yesterday to save the giraffe, they are becoming extinct, send money here. Seriously?!?! How often have we talked about giraffe's here, hardly ever. They are coming and it isn't just high fence or just lions. This is a distraction, you don't like the way CBL works write to SAPA and PHASA and make suggestions, get on a committee. But to say other hunters are unethical for doing it, is killing us.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

This apparently was on FB today. I have no idea who this guy is, this is a pic sent to me.

 

[K-man]

https://www.wildsheepfoundation.org...foundationorg-blob-document-agvhq1nudvdkq1k90

just read this letter. Wonder how they would react if sheep were just put on a cites list or disease wiped out the resident population and the only way to repopulate the species was to ranch them....bet their tune would change quickly.

 

[Royal27]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1540277582728542&id=173228692766778

Dear All ,
I would like to make the statement that in light of the decision made by the Professional Hunters Association Of South Africa (PHASA) to embrace the practice of captive bred lion hunting ,I will be distancing myself from this organization.

Under the leadership of Mr Stan Burger, someone that I highly respect for his impeccable ethics and commitment to sustainability, PHASA publicly announced they would no longer accept members engaged in Canned lion hunting - I was extremely pleased with this direction for indeed this practice as well as being highly unethical, bears no advantage to wild lions or lion conservation in any way shape or form - I was further pleased to become a closer ally of PHASA. Sadly I was mistaken and as a strong advocate for conservation based hunting I have no choice but to distance myself and i do so in the knowledge that this practice has nothing to do with such and in fact puts the entire hunting industry into ill repute -

Thank You
Ivan M Carter

 

[K-man]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1540277582728542&id=173228692766778

Dear All ,
I would like to make the statement that in light of the decision made by the Professional Hunters Association Of South Africa (PHASA) to embrace the practice of captive bred lion hunting ,I will be distancing myself from this organization.

Under the leadership of Mr Stan Burger, someone that I highly respect for his impeccable ethics and commitment to sustainability, PHASA publicly announced they would no longer accept members engaged in Canned lion hunting - I was extremely pleased with this direction for indeed this practice as well as being highly unethical, bears no advantage to wild lions or lion conservation in any way shape or form - I was further pleased to become a closer ally of PHASA. Sadly I was mistaken and as a strong advocate for conservation based hunting I have no choice but to distance myself and i do so in the knowledge that this practice has nothing to do with such and in fact puts the entire hunting industry into ill repute -

Thank You
Ivan M Carter

Well we certainly know where Ivan stands on this issue. Where was he when black wildebeest began being bred? He certainly seems to encourage rhino breeding on his show? Of course they aren't very fuzzy and cuddly when small.

 

[daawg1963]

With the way the lion hunting and the outrageous cost I really don't see the issue. Its not like captive bred aren't dangerous - if someone wants to do it go for it - to each his own

 

[IvW]

Well we certainly know where Ivan stands on this issue. Where was he when black wildebeest began being bred? He certainly seems to encourage rhino breeding on his show? Of course they aren't very fuzzy and cuddly when small.

It is done entirely differently and you can hardly compare the two.

Neither Black Wildebeest or Rhino are bred in small enclosures and then only huntable ones released for the sole purpose of hunting.

Black Wildebeest and Rhino have been a great conservation success story(Rhino poaching however is a serious issue), on large areas of land and reserves, being able to breed, feed and build up their numbers. When sustainable numbers are reached, then only are the older ones hunted.

The only comparison is breed, how it is done however is hugely different from each other.

If lions in SA were bred and hunted the same way, I think this whole issue would not be discussed.

 

[NamStay]

Napha shocked and disappointed

Me. Danene van der Westhuyzen, President, Napha: : "There is a huge difference between 'legitimate' and 'ethical'."

The Professional Hunters Association of Namibia (Napha) are appalled and expressed their shocked and horror by the Professional Hunters Association of South Africa (Phasa) now approving the hunt of so-called canned lions.

The president of Napha, me. Danene van der Westhuyzen, said in a
media statement that Napha was shocked and "deeply disappointed in this low-
point "reached Phasa.

Phasa had changed the term "ethical hunting" last Wednesday at its 40th annual meeting to "all hunting allowed by law".

Napha says the superficial definition of the concept "ethical" opens the door to abuse and exploitation - just for financial gain - for those who do not value the future of hunting in Africa or in the world.

"There is a huge difference between 'legitimate' and 'ethical'. We believe the majority of hunters in South Africa do not support this change not, "said Van der Westhuyzen.

Napha thinks there is a very fine line between the hunting of captive lion's and canned lion-hunting, and both are everywhere in the world condemn and "can not be considered hunting".

Napha argues Phasa's new definition of ethics grazes in line with the principles of the Code of Ethics Sport Hunting in Africa, which in 1997 was signed by Phasa in Victoria Falls.

Napha believes the change to Phasa's constitution has been approved by less than a third of the members of the association.

"By taking this decision, Phasa decided to adopt the majority opinion of both the hunting and non-hunting communities in the ignoring the world, thereby endangering all the hard work undertaken by various institutions to support of sustainable hunting as an instrument of conservation, "said Napha.

Van der Westhuyzen are of opinion that Phasa damages the good image of the entire hunting industry in Africa. It's also in conflict with their first stance.

"Both Napha and many other professional hunting associations in Africa have warned Phasa that they, even if they Consider this action, moving in dangerous areas where short-term decisions affect the entire hunting industry worldwide. NAPHA support all hunters in Africa who give ethical hunting and an animal a fair chance to escape from the hunter. "

Operators of Professional Hunters Associations in Africa (Ophaa) have kicked out Phasa as member, reported Netwerk24.




The original version in Afrikaans below:

Nee vir geblikte leeujag in SA

Napha geskok en teleurgestel

Me. Danene van der Westhuyzen, president, Napha: "Daar is 'n reuseverskil tussen 'wettig' en 'eties'."

Die Professionele Jagtersvereniging van Namibië (Napha) het sy skok en afgryse uitgespreek oor die Professionele Jagtersvereniging van Suid-Afrika (Phasa) wat die jag van sogenaamde geblikte leeus nou goedkeur.

Die president van Napha, me. Danene van der Westhuyzen, het in 'n mediaverklaring gesê Napha is geskok en “diep teleurgestel in hierdie laagte - punt” wat Phasa bereik het.

Phasa het die term “etiese jag” verlede Woensdag op sy 40ste jaarvergadering verander na “alle jag wat deur wetgewing toegelaat word”.

Napha sê die oppervlakkige definisievan die begrip “eties” maak nou die deur oop vir misbruik en uitbuiting - bloot vir finansiële gewin - vir diegene wat geen waarde heg aan die toekoms van jag in Afrika of in die wêreld nie.

“Daar is 'n reuseverskil tussen 'wettig' en 'eties'. Ons glo die meerderheid jagters in Suid-Afrika ondersteun nie hierdie verandering nie,” sê Van der Westhuyzen.

Napha meen daar is 'n baie fyn lyn tussen die jag van leeus in aanhouding en geblikte leeujag, en beide word oral in die wêreld veroordeel en “kan nie as jag geag word nie”.

Napha meen Phasa se nuwe definisie van etiek druis lynreg in teen die beginsels van die Kode van Etiese Sportjag in Afrika, wat in 1997 in Victoria Falls deur Phasa onderteken is.

Napha meen die verandering aan Phasa se grondwet is deur minder as 'n derde van die vereniging se lede goedgekeur.

“Deur hierdie besluit te neem, het Phasa besluit om die meerderheidsopinie van beide die jag- en die nie-jaggemeenskap in die wêreld te ignoreer en sodoende al die harde werk in gevaar geplaas wat deur verskeie instellings onderneem is ter ondersteuning van volhoubare jag as instrument van bewaring,” sê Napha.

Van der Westhuyzen meen Phasa skaad hiermee die goeie beeld van die hele jagbedryf in Afrika. Dit druis ook lynreg met Phasa se vroeëre standpunt in.

“Beide Napha en talle ander professionelejagverenigings in Afrika het Phasa in die verlede gewaarsku dat hulle, selfs as hulle hierdie optrede oorweeg, op gevaarlike terrein beweeg waar kortsigtige besluite die hele jag bedryf wêreldwyd benadeel. Napha ondersteun alle jagters in Afrika wat eties jag en 'n dier 'n regverdige kans gee om voor die jagter uit te vlug.”

Die Operateurs van Professionele Jagtersverenigings in Afrika (Ophaa) het Phasa intussen as lid uitgeskop, berig Netwerk24.


Source: https://www.republikein.com.na/nuus/nee-vir-geblikte-leeujag-in-sa2017-11-28/

 

[Hogpatrol]

Divide and conquer. It's been working since the beginning of mankind.

 

[IvW]

Well we certainly know where Ivan stands on this issue. Where was he when black wildebeest began being bred? He certainly seems to encourage rhino breeding on his show? Of course they aren't very fuzzy and cuddly when small.

Ivan Carter, is one of the greatest modern day supporters and one of the people who supports hunting as the best means of conservation that I know. He is however an ethical hunter and has made his personal decision regarding CBL hunting, I would rather respect that instead of making statements that imply you may not know what you are talking about. He is also one of the most experienced Professional hunters (I think also the youngest who has ever passed the Zimbabwe PH course) of the big 5, especially elephant.

There are very few people around that do more for hunting as the best means of conservation and sustainable utilization than Ivan Carter.

Apart from slamming Ivan's viewpoint on CBL, you have shown that you have no idea about the vast difference between the conservation efforts that brought the Black Wildebeest and the Rhino(Black and White) back to respectable and huntable numbers and the CBL industry in SA.

 

[Therack]

With the terminology “canned hunting” I would assume this was written by an anti hunting group.

 

[billc]

There is no one guys response who is any more important then any other persons. When someone can prove to me that if we give in on the raised lions the anti's will go away or we will not lose any other rights on hunting. Well then I will listen but we all know the answer to that or your just kidding yourself.

I agree Ivan has down a lot for Africa hunting but lets not kid ourselves and act like he is not making a good living doing so. God bless him and I hope he keeps making a living doing so and realizes a lion is no different then a rhino or any other animal raised to be hunt to many of us hunters.

 

[K-man]

I agree that Ivan in the past has done much for hunting. I also agree that he is certainly entitled to voice his own opinion on CBL. I also can see where my previous post was a bit harsh and for that i will apologize. HOWEVER, I know Ivan well enought to know he has chosen his wording very carefully, and terms like "canned hunts" and the other inflammatory tones will be used by the anti hunters frequently and will be given enough weight as to be almost scientific.
I am certainly smart enough to know there is a difference between the breeding of other species, but anti hunters will simply use a statement like that to include all breeds of captive animals. It is a bit like the difference between hunting and poaching, we understand the difference but the average person watching the evening news is given the impression that we have hunted animals to the brink of extinction. Lets not give free ammunition to anti hunters.

 

[gizmo]

Oh ya! Another CBL lion thread by a holier than tho who knows what’s best for me and has far superior ethics and intellect.

I’ll put my lion hunt and the experience up against any “free range” lion hunt.
I’m sick of this topic and will be soooo glad when people figure out forcing their views on others is unacceptable.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Gizmo, Yeah. Let's change the subject to long range hunting.

 

[gizmo]

Bahahahaha.

 

[Royal27]

Gizmo, Yeah. Let's change the subject to long range hunting.

How about long range high fence lion hunting using Hornady ammunition and truck for a rest?

Might as well go for gold!

 

[gizmo]

Omg I just spit beer across the living room. Lmfao