PETA is after a guy in CA - article mentions AH

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen I have given some thought on this as I am not offended by pretty much anything. I think I am too busy to be offended. I think that is part of the problem, we have made life too easy, too convenient, that people have time to get worked up and offended about issues that had nothing to do with them.

@ Living the dream.
You sound like a man after myself. Idont give 2 sh#$s about much. Luckily the good Lord gave me Teflon shoulders so the crap just slides off.
Problem I have is getting older I handle stupidity less.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Being the only living person on African Hunting Forums , who has actually experienced a complete hunting ban in his country ... I would strongly encourage all of my dear fellow forum members to give this a read :

How (I Personally Believe) The Future Of Hunting Can Be Saved

It is no secret . There are a rancid number of depraved individuals across this world ... Who wish to ban the noble sport of hunting , world wide . They may range from the retards who consider ANY form of animal consumption to be immoral ... To the hypocrites who eat meat and wear leather , yet...

www.africahunting.com

Based on my personal experiences , I have dissected the entire methodology of how anti hunters manage to successfully get a country to ban hunting .

@ major Kahn.
My dear friend Poton I remember your article well and it made for excellent reading.
Your friend Bob

 

[mark-hunter]

After India, Kenya has banned hunting in seventies, and I am sure there are some hunters here on the forum who were there at that time.

However,
from all previous writings of how anti hunting movement works, I find a lot of similarities and how the hunters were treated after the ban in Kenya (when comopared to India), in a book White Hunters: The Golden Age of African Safaris , by Brian Herne.

What are the similarities between seventies then, and modern age now?

Hunters and hunting industry has always been high profile community. Either because of higher social status, or privilege of owning the firearms, or any other reason.

And media just loves, when high profile person bytes the dust. (it sells very good) Thats fact.

In old days, there was no internet and digital photography, but there were magazines, and advertising, and the books.
So, hunters, and hunting organisations can easily be painted, and identified as legal target.

In modern days, we have internet, digital photo, social networks.
Information travel fast, and even, not to forget, news faking goes hand in hand with it.
But the system is the same. Paint the target, discredit, public pressure, ban.

And uneducated public, follows creating public pressure
So nothing really changed, except the frequency of campaigns and pace, being much faster then in yester year.

When someone says, I WILL POST the photo of me with the trophy, and nobody can do nothing about it - it is the personal expression of himself, he can do it obviously.

But the real question is this.
Does your hunting community benefit from your public photo? YES / NO?

Another question:
Find one (just, one!) of the recent anti hunting actions whether legislative or media campaigns against the hunters which was not triggered by some photos publicly posted somewhere on internet? Find one, and then answer again to first question.

 

[Tbitty]

If you think that if we stop posting pictures that suddenly the pressure to ban hunting will go away, you're crazy. ...
in the 60, 70, 80, 90s there was constant advertising of photos of hunters with dead animals, we slowly caved to the PC culture...

Couldn't agree more. All these PC chumps that are offended by sunlight during the day can't be stopped by avoidance. The world needs to grow a pair and stop caving to every little whimsy, because it only feeds them to the next one.

Post your pictures. Be PROUD of your accomplishments. Argue with an idiot and tell them they are flat wrong thay hunting is somehow bad. We (hunters) do more for conservation and economics and animal protection than ANY other group. Yet somehow they feel they can chastise us for our actions.

Vote for representatives that will protect your rights. Share your stories and educate others on the good we do. But DO NOT run or hide from the ignorant and self-entitled individuals that try to shame you. They are wrong.

I will not give in. I will not let them win. And I sure as hell will not be ashamed of my hunting/fishing/sporting adventures.

 

[Major Khan]

@ major Kahn.
My dear friend Poton I remember your article well and it made for excellent reading.
Your friend Bob

Why thank you so much for your kind words , Bob . I have not heard from you in a while , my friend . How have you been ? I was away on 2 shikar trips , recently .

 

[daawg1963]

This is really bad.

But, if I may add from my personal perspective:
All these anti hunting organisations are getting their arguments based on public posts with photos from hunters themselves. We give them the food.

Photo of hunter with trophy - is the only argument they continuously (and successfully) use against us, and it gets back to us in hard way, influencing the legislative system and public opinions.

This is another example, when sponsor of this forum was targeted by one of UK tabloids:

Brit trophy hunters pay to shoot zebras for fun and post gloating photos on Facebook

BRITISH trophy hunters are targeting “at risk” zebras and then posting sick photos of their kills on Facebook, it has been revealed. Many pose with their “trophy” grinning a…

www.thesun.co.uk

(photos again?)

Then we can all remember all other cases, notable one being - Cecil the lion saga, etc.

In my country, one of our prominent politicians was accused and charged for corruption and missuse of funds, and guess, what - media found his photos on web site of his African outfitter - sponsor of this web site, and blasted the photos all over local media - with dead elephant, etc.
I am not mentioning the names, the court proceedings are still in progress, but it was 100k plus, hunt - including DG, and 10 - 12 various species of other game.

etc,

My way of thinking is this:
Problem mitigation measures can be reactive or proactive.

1. Reactive means, after SHTF situation, and generally too late.
What remains after public attack is possible suing, or legal actions, but if photo is posted on public media, I dont think much can be done. Damage is done, as per above illustrations, and it cannot be undone.

2. Proactive means, mitigating negative factors and risks in advance, before the problem happens, which means in some way to control what we download on facebook, and other platforms.

Based on all above, in my simple mind, the only real risk and negative factor, is public photo of hunter and trophy.
(Am I right?)

What we need to reconsider, is public posting of hunters with trophies in public media, and make some (restrictive) rules integrated in each hunting organisation code of ethics about posting or not posting public pictures with trophies.

In closing, this problem is more present in highly developed countries, like USA, or UK, and at this moment less present in other countries, but it is growing on daily basis.

Scientific and economic arguments, facts and statistics - are all on legally regulated hunting side and game management programs, but the influence of ignorant, and emotional anti hunting organisation is at least 90% powered by our own photos posted on public media.
And problem is growing on daily basis. And thats the fact.

You want to post picture with your trophy?
Think again.

facebook?
Think again.
Your choice.
I dont.

The outfitters perspective:
Commercial hunting outfitters the perspective is a bit different.
Posting pictures of hunters with trophies is part of advertising campaign - this brings the clients in. (or at least we think so)

So in this respect, they will have to develop their own strategy of how they will proceed, but my way of thinking is that posting photos of rich game herds, game populations on grasslands, open savanah, or waterholes is good enough.
For example, if I see on outfitters web site, a rich, dense, numerous, self sustaining herd of buffalo - in their natural range - nobody needs to tell me, what I might be doing there, and why I should go there!

screw peta we can do what we want its not illegal they can kiss my asssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss why do i need permission from those assholes - imposing there bullshit on me and others like me - to hell with those mf

 

[mark-hunter]

screw peta we can do what we want its not illegal they can kiss my

Certainly.
The only flaw in this theory is I dont see much of asskissing from their side, they are doing quite the opposite - media and public attacks on hunting community, and aggressive pressure in MSM

To keep in mind: what once was not illegal, tends later to become not legal, with actions taken by anti hunting organisations in their media campaigns, followed by legislative system.
You live in USA? Washington state?
Try to import the lion trophy, after Cecil act was enforced?
How did it start, before it got to this point?

What you have now in recent development is anti hunting, anti trophy campaign, followed with media frenzy, in UK, to ban trophy imports.
Where do they get their arguments from?
(hint: "disgusting photos" of British hunters posing with dead animals, of "endangered" species, on social media networks, and "it has to stop now!")

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Why thank you so much for your kind words , Bob . I have not heard from you in a while , my friend . How have you been ? I was away on 2 shikar trips , recently .

@ major Kahn
I have been keeping safe and well my friend. I to have been on a couple of shikars with my son. Unfortunately we were unsuccessful but it did the heart and mind well being in the bush again.
I hope friends panther hunter and Rahman are keeping safe and well and enjoying shikar times as well.
Your friend Bob.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

you have better Fakebook friends than I do

@pantnman
I don't know about better friends just understanding and caring friends that like to see young people bonding in activities with their parents. Even my wife's non hunting friends understand the benefits of hunting but don't like the idea. We have a mutual understanding and even tho they don't like hunting themselves they still enjoying the bush and the fact that we only hunt feral animals not our native wildlife.
Bob

 

[TSALA HUNTING SAFARIS]

HI Everyone

We are all part of a great community here on AH with our love for hunting bringing us together.We must not forget that.

Africa's animals is part of our natural resources and hunting plays a big part in managing that resource.If it was not for the income hunting generates , large tracks of land would have been converted , animals and habitat lost and local communities broken with no means of income.We as hunters know this !

The only way PETA and other anti organisations can generate income and public favour is to discredit our industry with fabricated stories and lies.We all know this ! They have taken Mr Raby totally legal hunt and tried to turn the agenda to go with their narrative.The anti's will and can do that with any of our hunts.We should rather support each other.

We are arguing amongst each other and should rather stand proud as a community of hunters that has done more Africa , its wildlife and its communities than PETA and all the Anti's put together has done.

We are letting them dictate how and when our stories are being told.

 

[PARA45]

While PETA and all those other organizations are doing their part in writing their state representatives, and pushing to ban what we love dearly. What are the organizations we support doing? Why are they not doing the same thing? We have great discussions here, and have great ideas, but we always seem to blame the hunter for doing this and that, or how stupid that was, etc, etc, etc. But what happens after we logoff from this or other forums? Do we write a letter to our elected officials, do we call to defend what we love, or try to defend the hunter who killed the elephant??? No, because we believe what we read. That my friends is the problem we have. We sit on our a$$es and do nothing, and that is why they are winning and gaining ground every day.

 

[daawg1963]

Wow. I know this site and others can be accessed by anyone, but posting on FB and other such places seems riskier than this. I don't FB, never have, never will. Not a good place to post hunting and gun stuff I suspect.

facebook uses facial recognition they have all of it stored catalogued ect i dont use it either

 

[Saul]

I think that we have to be careful by using the argument that "it is legal so you cannot criticize me." Not only is this frequently used to explain away unethical hunting practices, but it also paints us into a corner along the same lines as "slavery was once legal." Instead, we should be saying "I hear your criticism, but my actions contributed to conservation and the protection of this species in the following ways..."

 

[Rum Runner]

Certainly.
The only flaw in this theory is I dont see much of asskissing from their side, they are doing quite the opposite - media and public attacks on hunting community, and aggressive pressure in MSM

To keep in mind: what once was not illegal, tends later to become not legal, with actions taken by anti hunting organisations in their media campaigns, followed by legislative system.
You live in USA? Washington state?
Try to import the lion trophy, after Cecil act was enforced?
How did it start, before it got to this point?

What you have now in recent development is anti hunting, anti trophy campaign, followed with media frenzy, in UK, to ban trophy imports.
Where do they get their arguments from?
(hint: "disgusting photos" of British hunters posing with dead animals, of "endangered" species, on social media networks, and "it has to stop now!")

@ mark-hunter; respectfully, you're not getting it. We're actually proud of our hunting heritage. I learned a painful lesson along time ago: "If you pander to your enemy, they hate you all the more."

 

[meigsbucks]

Woah, I respectfully disagree. Check out this photo:

Yep, I killed those fish. No apologies. Really, please, don't we all "kill"?

All I see is dinner. Nice brown by the way.

 

[Rum Runner]

Check this out. Very relevant to the discussion: https://theecologist.org/2020/aug/06/trophy-hunters-threaten-endangered-animals

Jane is wrong in so many ways, I don't know where to start...

 

[Saul]

Check this out. Very relevant to the discussion: https://theecologist.org/2020/aug/06/trophy-hunters-threaten-endangered-animals

Jane is wrong in so many ways, I don't know where to start...

I do think she raises a valid point about the gene pool and we as hunters need to be doing more to ensure that we are not only killing the most exceptional examples of the species, leaving future generations depleted.

 

[mark-hunter]

@ mark-hunter; respectfully, you're not getting it. We're actually proud of our hunting heritage. I learned a painful lesson along time ago: "If you pander to your enemy, they hate you all the more."

I am getting, but proud is not the point - in this discussion. But abuse of our pictures by antinhunting people

There are ways to be proud.

PS. got the pm, all good! No worry!

 

[mark-hunter]

Check this out. Very relevant to the discussion: https://theecologist.org/2020/aug/06/trophy-hunters-threaten-endangered-animals

" Scientific studies have demonstrated the links between trophy hunting and population declines. "
On this one, she does not quote any scientific works.
South Africa, and Namibia conservation success, against Kenya opposite example (extinction of eastern white rhino, for example, speak differently - rhino populations is most notable example)
20,000 of (huntable) white rhino - against ZERO in Kenya,
6,000 of (Huntable) black rhino, cca 700 of black rhino in Kenya.

Page doesn't exist

English news from the Voice of America. VOA news provides coverage from around the world and learning English lessons from VOA Special English.

www.voanews.com

"Most heart-breaking of all has been the systematic seeking out and killing of those with the biggest tusks – those known as the ‘Big Tuskers’ – whose ivory is so magnificent it touches the ground. "

Depletion of elephant gene pool, is product of CENTURIES of Ivory hunting, unregulated hunting, poaching, and all financed by black market and smuggling, and only partly due to trophy hunting - in the past.
After the world war 2, trophy hunting was more and more regulated, and in the same time ivory hunting was banned. I could name several sources, one being: Ivory: power and poaching in Africa, by Somerville Keith, a history of destruction of elephants, where trophy hunting is really diminutive issue, next to none.

etc.
each one of her points could be very much debated.
But this one, is subject of our present discussion:
"I have nothing but scorn for a wealthy British trophy hunter who killed a male, female and a couple of young ones and then posed, smiling proudly, beside their limp bodies. "

She has it specifically, exclusively against British hunters (not any other, but British - most cruel?)... posing with baboons... all in the light of ongoing media campaign to ban trophy imports to uk.
She painted the target as "rich and cruel british hunter", very easy for those who are not rich, to get on with her agenda.
Bottom line, entire article is political pamflet. Unfortunately, masses read that. (constituencies?)

 

[norfolk shooter]

This Article from African Hunting Gazette, may be interesting to read, in the light what we are talking about.


View attachment 361905

I get that I normally just share my pics with close friends that I trust. But its when the footage or photos fall into careless hands such as outfitters who would use it on social media to further the profile of their company with out asking the client