partitions for dangerous game

[gajie270]

375H&H 300 gr (factory Federal loaded). Never chrono'd it, but its 'advertised' at 2440 fps, so maybe 2375ish in reality. Barrel length is 24" (just shy I think). Not 100% on the twist rate, but I would bet 1-12, factory barrel.

We pondered it greatly that whole trip. Kept thinking it must of hit something, but open terrain without even a grass blade being tall enough to interfere. It did hit only 2" or so from POA as well.

maybe it was a manufacture error because in the recovered bullet it appears that the crimp lock just isnt there. so during firing the rear core wasn't attached so you had no stability and thus a keyhole. an idea?

 

[fourfive8]

375H&H 300 gr (factory Federal loaded). Never chrono'd it, but its 'advertised' at 2440 fps, so maybe 2375ish in reality. Barrel length is 24" (just shy I think). Not 100% on the twist rate, but I would bet 1-12, factory barrel.

We pondered it greatly that whole trip. Kept thinking it must of hit something, but open terrain without even a grass blade being tall enough to interfere. It did hit only 2" or so from POA as well.

Very odd! If nothing was hit in fight- yikes! I've no clue. Maybe a one in a million bad round or flawed bullet from the get go? I think the standard twist for 375 HH including the Win Big Bore is 12". I've never seen normal 300gr 375 bullets not stabiize at normal velocity from a normal twist. The splayed jacket at the nose does not appear to be consistent with a sideways hit on the animal. In any case the impact may not have been a full 180 deg off axis, as most bullets reported as key holing, are actually flying with a very obtuse spinning yaw.

If nothing was along the flight path, is there a possibility that a twig or something was in the bore when the shot was taken? People always ask why I tape my muzzle

 

[TTundra]

Very odd! If nothing was hit in fight- yikes! I've no clue. Maybe a one in a million bad round or flawed bullet from the get go? I think the standard twist for 375 HH including the Win Big Bore is 12". I've never seen normal 300gr 375 bullets not stabiize at normal velocity from a normal twist. The splayed jacket at the nose does not appear to be consistent with a sideways hit on the animal. In any case the impact may not have been a full 180 deg off axis, as most bullets reported as key holing, are actually flying with a very obtuse spinning yaw.

If nothing was along the flight path, is there a possibility that a twig was in the bore when the shot was taken? People always ask why I tape my muzzle

The nose was actually found impacted a few inches from the body, as if it came off in flight and continued on its path, good eye on that. Pretty much confirming it lost stability in flight, but not drastically. Our accepted conclusion was manufacturing defect and it lost its rear core early causing the destabilized spin....purely because we couldnt find the rear core at all, though we weren't sifting thru the grass too much, ha.

 

[Zim Fan]

Switched to Nosler Partitions 400 grain in a 416 Remington few years ago and last 5 Buffalo were down with one shot. Only used one insurance shot other 4 were dead by the time we walked up. Had heard Partitions were not recommended but most of those experiences seem to be several years old.

 

[Philip Glass]

I would add trophy bonded bearclaw to your list. I am surprised that you included accubond. Are they tough enough for buffalo?

Accubond is very similar to AFrame. No I have not used them for buffalo as I prefer Barnes. I have heard many reports that the trophy bonded bear claw are really good.

 

[WAB]

Accubond is very similar to AFrame. No I have not used them for buffalo as I prefer Barnes. I have heard many reports that the trophy bonded bear claw are really good.

I have only used TBBC and A-Frames on buffalo. I had not heard of accubonds being used, quite interesting. I used early accubonds on bear when I lived in Alaska. I had two in a row that had zero expansion, .30 cal entry, .30 cal exit. I was lucky to recover those animals and swore off them for thin skinned game. Could be they would work just fine on an old dugga boy.

 

[Scott CWO]

CW,

I agree with your bullet weight premise and took my .338 Win Mag to Africa using Winchester Fail Safe 230 grain bullets. All one shot kills, even on a BIG Eland Bull- he just stood and expired where was shot. It took 12 men to load he dead carcass into the bed of a pickup.

BUT, fast forward to a SE Colorado elk hunt and a 6X6 bull my guide called in to about 110 yards. My .338 was loaded with Winchester 210 Noslers when the elk saw me and made a run for it. The scope showed only a Texas heart shot so I went for it and connected with the left ham. My guide asked If I hit the bull and I said yes, but it will take a few minutes for him to die.

We slowly walked/stalked out across 100 yards of open ground and into a thin stand of trees where we found the bull breathing his last. Another shot put an end to him.

Though we never found the bullet, it had passed through the ham, guts and made a mess of the lungs.

Like I said, people will post that they killed a buffalo and in this case, an elk, but there are better choices for tougher game with less risk of wounding.

 

[fourfive8]

A-Frames are like thick jacketed, bonded Partitions- a very reliable soft point design. Nosler Partitions, while similar to A-Frame, are not bonded and can do odd things if overstressed. Nosler Accubonds are a bonded, simple cup and core. One similar to the Accubond is the Remington Ultra Bonded Core-Lokt. A relatively thin jacketed, bonded cup and core that will come apart in heavy tissue or bone. I don't know if Remington is still making the Ultra Bonded- a poor attempt at catching the bonded market wave. The Swift Scirocco II is somewhat similar to other thick jacketed bullets and is bonded but it does not have a good core support shape at the base. Three very similar bonded bullets of good design that have superior core base support designs are the Rhino Soft Point (RSA), the Northfork Soft Point (Sweden, being imported by Rel. Intl.) and the TBBC. A decent alternative, especially for odd or hard find to calibers in a cup and core soft point, is Hawk. Nothing special about them but you can specify a thicker jacket if desired. The monolithics are a different kettle of fish.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yes you are correct, it was designed to stay together enough to get the penetration needed. And great technology for its time. Its still is in a sense due to cost. This one was recovered against the skin on the opposite side of the shot. But like you and others have mentioned, there are better choices. I would not want any of the bullet to fragment at all on an animal like buffalo.

"It's still is in a sense due to cost". Well, the Partitions I've priced recently are outrageous when compared to other premium bullets. Nosler has almost doubled the price for them. But they do sell as Swifts, Barnes and a couple other premium bullets are MIA in many calibers/bullet weights. I've only used them on deer and pronghorn and they worked well.

 

[Velo Dog]

To quote John Luyte (pronounced “John Late”), of Duke Safaris …. “I’ve never seen an A-Frame fail.

 

[crs]

'Like I said, people will post that they killed a buffalo and in this case, an elk, but there are better choices for tougher game with less risk of wounding."

Which choice is best is for MY situation is my business! I need not be told that 2200 fps is better!


See that .405 WCF leaning on that dead game? My hunt, my gun, my handloaded 400 grain ammo at 2100 fps and my kill from 20 yards.. Others may use a 500 NE and I do not care. None of my business.
It is all relative and I am happy with my decision and hunt. Next time I may do it with a 300 grain North Fork at 2250 fps. That works well on water buffalo too.
Or maybe I will do it with my .45-90 DR with my handloads for that. Or maybe a big bore revolver like Edward does.

 

[revturbo9967]

"It's still is in a sense due to cost". Well, the Partitions I've priced recently are outrageous when compared to other premium bullets. Nosler has almost doubled the price for them. But they do sell as Swifts, Barnes and a couple other premium bullets are MIA in many calibers/bullet weights. I've only used them on deer and pronghorn and they worked well.

I have to admit it’s been a long time since I’ve bought any. I think the last ones I bought were 140 gr for my 270 and I think I paid 28 bucks for a box of 50

 

[CoElkHunter]

I have to admit it’s been a long time since I’ve bought any. I think the last ones I bought were 140 gr for my 270 and I think I paid 28 bucks for a box of 50

Yes, it seems like Nosler bullets and brass have gone up 40% in the last year and a half or so. Everyone else seems to have increases of 20-25%. As someone else here has suggested, maybe the current Partitions are "newly" designed from their 1948 origin and worth the price increase. I don't know?

 

[revturbo9967]

Yes, it seems like Nosler bullets and brass have gone up 40% in the last year and a half or so. Everyone else seems to have increases of 20-25%. As someone else here has suggested, maybe the current Partitions are "newly" designed from their 1948 origin and worth the price increase. I don't know?

I know the brass is through the roof. Owning 28 noslers do not help the cause

 

[One Day...]

Best Leopard bullet there is ?

First ever premium bullet...

When the Nosler Partition (NP) was invented in 1948 it quickly became and remained for over 30 years the standard by which all other bullets were judged, a vast improvement over anything that came before it, and Federal and Weatherby loaded it as the first premium bullet ever offered in factory ammo, and it remained the only one for a long time. It developed a cult following for decades.

Many of us have killed very dead anything that walks the earth with Partitions, and the accepted wisdom at the time was that

• the front core expanding violently and spraying 40% of the bullet weight assured tremendous lung/heart damage and quick incapacitation;
• the 60% of bullet weight rear core penetrated deep enough in most cases (very few people hunted Africa in those days); and
• the absence of exit in many if not most cases was good because all the energy was expanded inside the animal.

Ah, but the times, they are achangin'

Technology keeps marching...

For many hunters of tough or dangerous game, excessive bullet weight loss and lesser penetration needed to be addressed. This meant Grizzly and Moose initially, but Safari going became more affordable and more common when South Africa started game ranching.

In 1968 or thereabout Bitterroot Bonded bullets addressed the issue with a chemical bonding process that ‘welds’ core and jacket together by attaching them at the molecular level. An entire family of bonded bullets resulted, including nowadays the Nosler Accubond, Federal Trophy Bonded, Hornady Interbond, Swift Scirocco, etc. Various bonded ‘cup & core’ designs typically retain 60% to 80% weight ... but not all of them are equal...

In 1984, a different twist on the bonding concept was brought by Swift who essentially produced a partition bullet with bonded front core. The Swift A Frame bullet typically retains 95% weight.
Mono-metal bullets

In 1986 Barnes introduced another concept: hollow point bullets made of solid copper or gilding alloy that were designed to expand and retain four ‘petals’ to create massive tissue damage while retaining virtually 100% weight. The X Bullet was born. Initially the Barnes X was a little too tough. While it likely retained 100% of its weight (which few could verify because bullets punched through game and very few were recovered), many hunters thought that the wound channels were too narrow, and that the X was not expanding enough. It took a couple iterations to reach the balance between expansion and retention, but today the hollow point TSX and especially the Tipped TSX, the TTSX, seem to provide the perfect balance of expansion and weight retention.

Nosler did make for a while the Partition Gold, in which the partition was moved forward, and which had a steel cup insert in the back partition. It may have been an exclusive for Winchester to compete with Federal Premium line of ammo loaded with the NP. I am not sure. It did not last very long on the market and I do not know if Winchester or Nosler pulled the plug.

Today's DG scene...

From the above, it is easy to gather that on todays' DG scene:

• A Frame and TSX (and the myriad similar monolithic bullets) are a better choice for Buffalo and Hippo on land because they penetrate deeper.
• Elephant remains a game for solids only. As well as the very few Rhino still taken. Hopefully more in the future, as hunters' dollars are slowly bringing at least the wide mouth Rhino (so called "white" Rhino because of some early sportsmen confusing 'wide' with 'white') from the brink of extinction.
• Lion is a toss-up between A Frame & TSX and NP depending on who you ask and the shot angle: A Frame & TSX for a lengthwise shot, NP for a broadside behind the shoulder shot.
• The Partition may be one of the very best Leopard bullets, precisely due to the fact that the front core will "explode" in the cats' lung/heart area.
• About any modern bullet will work on Croc side brain shot.

What about PG?

The NP remains a great bullet for PG, although my own experience on Eland (and Moose) indicates that more penetration is desirable.

 

[Sarg]

Oh Oh I have the best photos of why I would not use the .375 H&H with 300gr NP on Large DG Buffalo for one, I just need to find them .

Most of my hunters or a large number come armed for Buffalo & Banteng with the .375 H&H, I'm not a fan myself & think it should start at .40 but it is a powerful cartridge & can do great work in the right hands & with the right bullets .

I had a old chap, very sick & on his last legs who really wanted a Big Buffalo Bull, whole big story but I found him one, got him very close & told him where to shoot, then covered him with the .458Win !

Well he fired not much happened other than the bull ran like fuckery & I got a solid up his butt, then ran into the jungle to find him, gave one more on the run & a finisher, returned picked up the hunter & we went in for some pics, my Boss joined us there .

As it turned out he didn't shoot where I advised (as all old hunters know better) & he had made what he thought was the lethal neck shot, now these are Buffalo not some lesser animal & the .375 H&H doesn't have the margin unless you place the shot & use the correct bullets ( A frames TBBC TSX there are others) I didn't say any thing & we took pic's took the head & return him to camp to rest, I went back to move the carcass for bait & check on the shot .

The .375 300gr Nosler Partition projectile had only gone in about 8-9in hit no bone & didn't make it to any where vital, being caught/stopped by the thick skin & massive muscles of the bulls neck !

I have seen this sort of things countless times over the years & the .458Win has saved not only the clients health & trophy fee but his enjoyment of the whole hunt, I have found 10's of bullets in Buffalo we have hunted from earlier encounters right up to .375 caliber .

One funny incident, we were stalking a good bull in think jungle along a swamp & all of a sudden his head popped up right next to us on a pressure ridge, I said can you shoot him in the brain, my hunter says easy & slams a 416Rem into the Bulls head it drops to the shot, later back at camp I'm skinning out the head & my knife hits a bullet at the back of the skull, I think nice hunters bullet, dig it out, emm I think looks like a .375 to me, strange I wonder if he loaded one of his Dads 375 H&H into his 416Rem, keep going on my job & inch later hit another bullet, this being the .416 !!

So this Bull was shot in the head by a .375H&H to no effect (obviously missing the brain) but a inch lower shot with the 416Rem took him out !

Ok found them , this Bull after we cleared around him.

 

[C.W. Richter]

that seems more like a bullet stability issue than necessarily a bullet failure

Might you happen to work for Nosler?

 

[C.W. Richter]

I'm a fan of partitions for most game, but this 375 gave us major concern. If it would have been a buff instead of a Blue Wildebeest, we would have likely been out $8k. First shot mad an odd sound at impact, distinct but different thud. Figured out why after sending another to put the animal down. No obstruction between us and the animal. Lead residue was found in the bottom cavity.

Bullet was recovered key holed on the exterior of the hide with 3m-4mm partial penetration. That said, many animals have dropped to 1 shot for us with partitions...but I am using something else this June for my buff.

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they are a more toughly constructed elk (weighing 450-750 lbs.) very tough beasts!!! built to withstand horrific predator attacks, and inferior bullets!

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I will always recommend the Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw as THE premium soft point to use. I’m not a big fan of the new Nosler Partition. That said, the 500Gr Nosler Partitions in either .458 Winchester Magnum or .458 Lott are excellent on leopards and lions. I’ve seen a 500 grain Nosler Partition fired from a .458 Winchester Magnum stop an adult male lion’s charge in Zimbabwe. I wouldn’t consider it to be suitable for Cape buffalo, though.

 

[C.W. Richter]

I will always recommend the Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw as THE premium soft point to use. I’m not a big fan of the new Nosler Partition. That said, the 500Gr Nosler Partitions in either .458 Winchester Magnum or .458 Lott are excellent on leopards and lions. I’ve seen a 500 grain Nosler Partition fired from a .458 Winchester Magnum stop an adult male lion’s charge in Zimbabwe. I wouldn’t consider it to be suitable for Cape buffalo, though.

Whatever bullet comes in the Federal Fusion ammo is also superior! I fired many into target backstop soil embankments and collected PERFECTLY mushroomed bullets nearing 1" in diameter (virtually no weight loss-completely in-tact!) In the field, my son collected a buffalo at ~20-30 yds using same. I chronographed them at 2,090 fps and didn't feel comfortable using 'em on DG at longer ranges, so traded up to (2,450 fps) .416.