P14/p17 action

[francois_458]

Good day members. Looking for some insight and info on the inner workings of the p14/17 actions (I don't know much about them)

For context I own a 500 a-sqaure built by the A-sqaure company. The rifle is built on a p14 action I believe. It works and functions perfectly, but has one annoying feature. The bolt seems to have an internal spring of sorts that pushes the bolt back when opened. This bothers me because of how I carry my rifle. When walking I have one round in the chamber and the bolt open, on the first notch in most rifles. This clearly shows to others around that the rifle is safe and can't be fired in that condition. With this rifle though, the bolt easily slips up to the open position and is then forced backwards by the spring and the round could then be ejected.

So my question is: is there any way to remove that spring and still have the rifle work?

Thanks in advance

 

[grand veneur]

I know what you mean because I have a custom rifle that is built with a M1917 Enfield action. A handling as you describe is with such bolt actions not possible without problems.

As a side note, the procedure with a cartridge in the chamber and a half-open bolt action is controversially discussed in terms of safety. Forbidden in our countries anyway.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

This is "cock on closing" preferred by British War Dept on the belief it made a bolt action quicker to cycle. I have shot both cock on open and close. In my opinion it's BS. Some models of Mauser rifles also cocked on closing and kits are available to modify them to cock on open. Not sure but I believe kits are also available for Enfield.

The safety on the Model 17/P14 Enfield rifle is quite robust. I would not hesitate to stalk with a round in the chamber. Both my 98 Mauser 404 Jeffery and Springfield 03A3 are cock on opening and I would not carry them with bolt unlocked and round in chamber. They would undoubtedly drop open in short order. In fact, I experienced this more than once with the Springfield when it had a defective 2-position wing scope relief safety. If my jacket pocket caught the bolt handle when slung on left shoulder, it could inadvertently disengage the safety and even open the bolt. Doesn't take much. Both actions are slick.

 

[BlueFlyer]

This is "cock on closing" preferred by British War Dept

Absoutely correct, I have both actions and have installed a Numrich Arms kit that converts them to cock on opening.
The stricker has a more positive impact in the original cock on closing than it does with the Numrich cock on opening kit. Its up to you, get the Numrich kit and have the function you are comfortable with or stay original and have 100% confidence when you pull the trigger it goes bang!!!!

 

[BlueFlyer]

Just to be clearer in my explanation - in the original condition (cock on closing) the main spring is forcing the bolt back and ejecting the cartridge when the locking lugs disengage.
The Numrich kit converts the P14/M17 to cock on opening the same as a Mauser 98. But the stricker fall is shorter and the preload on the stricker spring is less, so the overall stricker force (this is the force the firing pin hits the primer) is lower than the origional cock on closing condition.
If you are in the field and have something charging you at full steam, do you want ease of function or to be sure it goes bang?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Just to be clearer in my explanation - in the original condition (cock on closing) the main spring is forcing the bolt back and ejecting the cartridge when the locking lugs disengage.
The Numrich kit converts the P14/M17 to cock on opening the same as a Mauser 98. But the stricker fall is shorter and the preload on the stricker spring is less, so the overall stricker force (this is the force the firing pin hits the primer) is lower than the origional cock on closing condition.
If you are in the field and have something charging you at full steam, do you want ease of function or to be sure it goes bang?

Interesting. Have you had a primer fail to detonate?

 

[BlueFlyer]

I really should investigate more, as it could also relate to the distance the the firing pin projects out of the bolt.
The P14 in 9.3X64 has never had a hang fire.
The M17 in 280AI has had some hang fires. I should put the cock on closing back in and see if the hang fires go away. Just to make sure it is not an ammunition issue.

 

[francois_458]

Thanks for all the replies
I doubt I'll mess with it at this point in time, but perhaps if I have a second backup rifle I might consider giving such a conversion a go

 

[BlueFlyer]

One thing confuses me, the Enfield safety locks the bolt so it cannot open. If the bolt is closed then the safety needs to be on. There is no intermediate position. The bolt needs to be open and no safety or closed with the safety. But I have no idea what A-Square have done with the action.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I really should investigate more, as it could also relate to the distance the the firing pin projects out of the bolt.
The P14 in 9.3X64 has never had a hang fire.
The M17 in 280AI has had some hang fires. I should put the cock on closing back in and see if the hang fires go away. Just to make sure it is not an ammunition issue.

Hang fires sound very suspicious of ammo problems. Weak firing pin might mean failures to fire but I can't see how it would lead to hang fire. That's a problem with ignition sequence. Moldy powder would be my guess. Or crappy primers.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

One thing confuses me, the Enfield safety locks the bolt so it cannot open. If the bolt is closed then the safety needs to be on. There is no intermediate position. The bolt needs to be open and no safety or closed with the safety. But I have no idea what A-Square have done with the action.

I have a donor P14 303 in the safe and I just checked it. This one, which has not been modified as far as I can tell, does have a 3-position safety ... sort of. Position 2 allows this gun to be recocked but NOT cycled. The bolt can be unlocked but cannot be withdrawn. Totally dysfunctional position 2 in my opinion. The safety still must be disengaged to fire or eject a loaded round. And safety must be engaged to keep the bolt locked down. Position 2 for 98 Mauser and Springfield 03 will lock the striker on safe but allow the gun to be cycled. Model 70 also has 3-position striker safety.

Edit: The above didn't make any sense so I went back and checked the action again. Position 2 WILL allow this gun to be cycled IF I use enough force. Bolt is consistently hanging up on position 2. The safety probably needs to be tuned. Perhaps A-square got rid of position 2 because it wasn't working properly or that is the only way it could be tuned. The merits or not of 3-position vs 2-position (e.g. "the Remington Moment") is an endless debate.