Outfitters and political posts

[Velo Dog]

@Velo Dog I certainly take no issues with your values but I might argue that the politics of illusion are more profound than noted. WJC by most measures is on par with the moderate republican platform of today. Heck, GWB and even GHWB were of a similar set of stripes. HRC appears socialistic but that appears to be for purposes of winning votes. HRC, WJC, and GWB are corporatists. They had similar interests in abolishing the uptick rule, ending glass stiegel, rampant spending and corporate welfare.

The last true liberal we've had is BHO and the last true conservative we've had was Reagan. In between its been nothing but sweet whispers in our ears that are designed to garner votes but there is little evidence to suggest they believe what they say in public when we look at their actions.

That's why its so hard to reach out and grab a friend and shake them for voting the way they do in the past thirty years. Heck, JFK would never be elected today as a republican, much less as a democrat because his deeds were far right of the present parties. (offensive actions to avert war, lowering taxes to boost growth, etc.)

Again, I take no issues with your values but I can't say there are stark contrasts in values from 1988-2008 from any party leader. The illusion of choice.

Trump and Clinton's positions on Gun Control are a distinctly "stark contrast".

You might vote for King George and his Red Coats.

I will always defend your right to vote as you choose.

However, my vote goes to George Washington, and the Minute Men.

 

[rookhawk]

@Velo Dog but the only Federal gun control we had was the AWB 1994-2004 and the executive order banning future "assault weapon" import from China and Russia.

That was Clinton's idea. The result? Clunky-Junky SVD Dragunov NDM-86 rifles bought for $1200 went to $3000 under the duration of the AWB and then escalated to over $8000 now. I'm never a fan of reduced liberty but this was just a facade to let the political hacks appeal to their base so they can continue their agenda. Federal gun control hasn't materially changed since GCA and NFA going back 47 years and 82 years respectively. Today we can't import Russian AKs but there are some of the best AKs and other black guns made in this country or finished with the mandated 6 USA made parts to avoid the prohibition. Gun quality went up. Value of already owned guns went up. No one was precluded from owning or buying product already in the USA. Not great, but not as devastating as some would claim such as the NRA. (I'm a NRA life benefactor member, I just don't agree with the severity of their opinions)

Now if we go on their words as politicians, Trump conceded in the debates to using no-fly lists (built recklessly, wrought with errors, no appeals process to get your name removed) for the basis of denying you 2nd amendment rights when you fill out a 4473 acquisition form. It sounds appealing to the ill-informed but you pull back the sheets and there it is, erosion of the 2nd amendment.

Not as black and white as we wish it to be. And again, I do not take issue with your values or your voting choices, only the fact that there is limited spectrum of choice between candidates in effective behavior.

 

[Velo Dog]

@Velo Dog but the only Federal gun control we had was the AWB 1994-2004 and the executive order banning future "assault weapon" import from China and Russia.

That was Clinton's idea. The result? Clunky-Junky SVD Dragunov NDM-86 rifles bought for $1200 went to $3000 under the duration of the AWB and then escalated to over $8000 now. I'm never a fan of reduced liberty but this was just a facade to let the political hacks appeal to their base so they can continue their agenda. Federal gun control hasn't materially changed since GCA and NFA going back 47 years and 82 years respectively. Today we can't import Russian AKs but there are some of the best AKs and other black guns made in this country or finished with the mandated 6 USA made parts to avoid the prohibition. Gun quality went up. Value of already owned guns went up. No one was precluded from owning or buying product already in the USA. Not great, but not as devastating as some would claim such as the NRA. (I'm a NRA life benefactor member, I just don't agree with the severity of their opinions)

Now if we go on their words as politicians, Trump conceded in the debates to using no-fly lists (built recklessly, wrought with errors, no appeals process to get your name removed) for the basis of denying you 2nd amendment rights when you fill out a 4473 acquisition form. It sounds appealing to the ill-informed but you pull back the sheets and there it is, erosion of the 2nd amendment.

Not as black and white as we wish it to be. And again, I do not take issue with your values or your voting choices, only the fact that there is limited spectrum of choice between candidates in effective behavior.

Hi rookhawk,

I agree with you that the choices are slim - all Politicians are crooks - IMO.

However, I do not agree with you that the Democrat gun control efforts are ineffective.

If The Department of Homeland Security's recent ammunition grab, resulting in ammunition being unavailable at any price, did not send a chill down your spine, I re-state my comment about travelling with a different map than the one I navigate by.

Even now, although becoming a little more available, ammunition remains painfully expensive.

Vote for the gun control candidate all you want to.

I cannot do it.

Kind regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[rookhawk]

@Velo Dog Don't disagree that DHS is a power vacuum. Don't disagree its a move towards brown shirts.

Question what president and party invented DHS, sought their funding through the Patriot Act and began this threat to liberty that concerns you?

GHWB

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Thanks to all of the members for keeping this thread, even with it's potentially volatile subject matter, not only civil but thoughtful and conscientious. It's great that we can have such discussion on the site and everybody is so respectful. We truly have such an amazing community of ladies and gentlemen.

 

[rookhawk]

@AfricaHunting.com Absolutely. This group is a class act. The old saying slightly modified: this forum contains the notions and values to which all men of good conscious agree.

And the 20% differences of opinion?

In the essentials, Unity. In the Non-essentials, Liberty. In all things, Charity.

Great group of people on AH!

 

[sestoppelman]

@Velo Dog I certainly take no issues with your values but I might argue that the politics of illusion are more profound than noted. WJC by most measures is on par with the moderate republican platform of today. Heck, GWB and even GHWB were of a similar set of stripes. HRC appears socialistic but that appears to be for purposes of winning votes. HRC, WJC, and GWB are corporatists. They had similar interests in abolishing the uptick rule, ending glass stiegel, rampant spending and corporate welfare.

The last true liberal we've had is BHO and the last true conservative we've had was Reagan. In between its been nothing but sweet whispers in our ears that are designed to garner votes but there is little evidence to suggest they believe what they say in public when we look at their actions.

That's why its so hard to reach out and grab a friend and shake them for voting the way they do in the past thirty years. Heck, JFK would never be elected today as a republican, much less as a democrat because his deeds were far right of the present parties. (offensive actions to avert war, lowering taxes to boost growth, etc.)

Again, I take no issues with your values but I can't say there are stark contrasts in values from 1988-2008 from any party leader. The illusion of choice.

You mean JFK couldn't be elected as a democrap, let alone a Republican. He was a democrat but by todays standard he would be a Republican. You leave out the most important part of the equation though. The gun thing. HRC is rabid anti gun, thus anti freedom and will stack the courts even further in that vein, as Velo notes above. Electing HRC is a big ass vote against ones self as a gun owner and hunter. What others were in the past is now irrelevant, we have to face whats coming now.

 

[sestoppelman]

"if you are not a liberal at 20, you have no heart. If you are not a conservative by 40, you have no head". Winston Churchill

 

[Velo Dog]

@Velo Dog Don't disagree that DHS is a power vacuum. Don't disagree its a move towards brown shirts.

Question what president and party invented DHS, sought their funding through the Patriot Act and began this threat to liberty that concerns you?

GHWB

Hi again rookhawk,

The Department of Homeland Security is a huge waste of our tax money, no matter who created this Keystone Cops style branch of the Government.

I presume it was either Bush #1 or Bush #2.

Shame on him or whomever it was, for this waste of our tax money (lots of it) but whichever crooked Politician created it, I do not recall this well armed force being used to trample the 2nd Amendment, by a nation wide and thorough ammunition sweep .... that is - until clear and present Democrat: Barak Obama became their boss.

Neither of the Bushes have impressed me but, I voted for them each time because they were the least likely candidates to infringe upon my 2nd Amendment Right to keep and bear arms.

I contend that under this Democrat Administration, the government sponsored ammunition shortage is in direct violation of our ever eroding Bill of Rights.

As you pointed out, many of their prior efforts to infringe upon gun owner's Constitutional rights have been less effective than the authors may have prayed for ..... until the ammunition grab - that one was indeed very effective, especially against gun owners and shooters who are not wealthy.

Even if I ignored the ammunition impact and only considered the Democrat Party's other, less-than-crippling gun control moves (perhaps ineffective but nonetheless, these are focused and continued attacks on our 2nd Amendment), I just cannot imagine how any serious gun collector or even anyone who keeps a firearm handy, in case of a violent attack by some meth-head criminal, would conclude that they should vote for a Democrat President - I truly do not get it.

So I suppose you and I shall have to agree to disagree on what characteristics make a candidate not worth voting for.

I totally respect your right to disagree with my opinion and I do enjoy reading your posts, as you seem to be possessed of an above average mind and certainly, you are an excellent writer.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Ray B]

Once again, we are focusing on the wrong problem. the elected people and their programs/laws are not the problem, they are the result of the problem. The problem was foreseen by Thomas Jefferson: a virtually illiterate voter population. As long as the population is nothing more than a mindless horse responding to a carrot held a few feet in front or a whip applied to it's rear, then the nation as a whole will continue it's path to perdition.

 

[sestoppelman]

Per above, the more the govt can do for you, the more it WILL do to you. Folks nowadays are all too willing to give up their freedoms inch by inch to make their lives easier by getting big govt to do everything for them. Frog in the pot sound familiar? I honestly cannot understand the liberal mindset that thinks that somehow by growing govt bigger and bigger that somehow it will be more efficient and less harmful. Its the exact opposite! I fear it is already too late actually and the election of HRC will be proof of that, if that happens. Polls say she will but the polls are run by those who want HRC elected so don't let that discourage you from voting against her. I am 63 years old, if HRC gets elected I don't expect to see another Republican elected to the WH in my lifetime., for the reasons above. We have become a nation of ignorant sheep.

 

[mrpoindexter]

As Winston Churchill said once, "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

 

[Pheroze]

If the USA can learn from their northern neighbours... the government that pays for everything uses your money, not theirs. It will start slow, but will reach a critical mass where the insatiable need for tax dollars makes for a nauseating regressive tax. When increasing income tax becomes untenable they increase user fees. Gradually your utilities increase until one day you realize the electricity bill is up over 150%. Since the election of our most recent liberal government my utilities have increased at least that!

How does someone on a fixed retirement income keep that bungalow they worked their entire life to pay off? It is unethical and disgusting. You folks are right to nip it in the bud. Even if Trump loses hopefully the message is not lost. Hopefully the Democrats realize they cannot just spend away the retirement security the citizens worked hard for.

 

[Clayton]

This may be taken as stirring the pot. But I fear we could well see something not seen since 1836. Look into the Electoral College and "faithless electors".

 

[sestoppelman]

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money". Margret Thatcher.

"If the US federal govt ran the Sahara desert, it would run out of sand". Milton Freidman, economist.

 

[sestoppelman]

This may be taken as stirring the pot. But I fear we could well see something not seen since 1836. Look into the Electoral College and "faithless electors".

My boy and I were just doing that yesterday in fact. Its unlikely but possible.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Anybody know where I can get as good deal on more 1919 30 cal links?
Sorry wrong thread, or wait maybe it isn't! Hope there is room up in AK for one more @VeloDog, if she gets in death to jobs by more regulation will follow in her wake and when she tips over due to what ever ailment that she possesses and is succeeded by that mouth breather Cain(no, I spelled it correctly) may God help us all!
I need to go check headspace and Timing,
Cody
Scott, My deepest condolences about the child, got to be rough but In that case I don't think The pope would argue the case!

 

[Ray B]

"If the US federal govt ran the Sahara desert, it would run out of sand". Milton Freidman, economist.

I had price theory classes from Dr Friedman while at UofC (AB77). I never heard him say that, but I can picture him saying it. Thanks for reminding me of him.

 

[sestoppelman]

I had price theory classes from Dr Friedman while at UofC (AB77). I never heard him say that, but I can picture him saying it. Thanks for reminding me of him.

My brother who has read most if not all his books told me of the quote. In fact he may have said it publicly in a forum or discussion. He did have a TV show years ago if I recall.

 

[siml]

Just to add some humor, seen as Churchill is being quoted...his best quote has to be at a dinner party one evening, when Lady "grace" said to him, " you just a drunk", Churchill replied to her........" at least in the morning I will be sober, but you will still be ugly!!"