Out of Curiosity and purily hypothetical. How long is too long? A question for outfitters

[Ontario Hunter]

I'm not a PH but I do know me. I think just about any PH could hunt with my brother or my dad (if he was alive) for a month. Probably longer. For me, I think nine days is about where the welcome starts to wear out. I don't want to be with folks just because I'm paying them. I also don't want to be taking up space and maybe keeping the outfitter from working a client who's interested in stacking a pile of trophies. For that reason I prefer showing up when the season is ending. Rarely any other clients at the lodge. I have already pretty much filled my list so it's more of a leisurely trip. See what we can find. Often I can get involved in management aspects which are very interesting: do some culling, interacting with landowners, fencing, relocating breeding stock. It's about being in the bush more than just shooting stuff. Being a part of the landscape ... instead of a well dressed dude from a different planet.

 

[Ridge Runner]

While not African related a number of years ago my brother in law and myself ventured onto a 30 day hunting trip for a couple different animals across two states.

After being together for 20 or so days we just needed time apart even after being apart for a few hours each day. And we get along fantastic with each other.

People just get on each other's nerves when they are together 24//7 for that long.

Now on both of my African hunts I couldn't of picked better PH's but the hunts were only 10 days.

Spoiler Alert.

As @JimP mentioned, eluded to, generally the newness wears off around 3 weeks and personalities flourish or founder.

From an outfitter perspective there is a fine line that will depend on how well you know the client (friend or stranger), how much the client demands (low maintenance or otherwise), how much he hunts, etc.
The outfitter will soon realise if his hospitality is getting abused.
If a client is just driving around every day (wasting fuel, time, money, etc) and does not want to shoot a single animal then the outfitter must realise he is getting used for a cheap vacation.

I cannot afford to fire up my lodge and pay for all the staff and PH's and vehicles and fuel and wi-fi and free booze and reserve the lodge exclusively for one client that does not want to hunt.
On the other hand I have a dear friend from Texas that is almost part of the family and he comes and goes here on our ranch like he is part of us. He is really low maintenance. Last year he hunted 3 consecutive months all over Africa and he came to visit us twice in that 3 month period. He did some culling, etc. but mainly we are just good friends and he visits us and I visit him in Texas.

So each outfitter must decide himself where the fine line is.

So Ridge Runner you have kept us on the edge of our seats.
What is the purpose for this madness as you call it.

Sincerely
Hans de Klerk

The client and couple will be hunting. For the couple add an opportunity animals 1 giraffe and 1 zebra. The listed animals they are dividing.

These Client's are just fascinated with hunting impala, springbok, and warthogs. All other PG is mundane to them.

"To take the question a step further the client is fixated on just wanting to primarily hunt 1, 2, or 3 species like common impala, common springbok, and wart, say 10 of a single primary specy, 7 of each of 2 primary species, 6 of each 3 primary species. The client only wants 1 of each species: gemsbok or eland or kudu, wildebeest or hartebeest, and a jackal or baboon."

This is a second trip client to the outfitter. The client's first trip was solo, 2 years ago for 7 hunting days, 5 animals.

Moderate maintenance. Doesn't really want to be babysat, but understands and willing to follow the rules.

Has just enough knowledge of Africa, that in his opinion May and September are the best months to visit Africa.

From the Solo client's point of view he considers he is saving time and money by:

1. Spending his whole time with one outfitter

2. Not unpacking and packing chasing flights and spending (wasting) time traveling from and to hunt with other outfitters when the one outfitter can provide the same animals at an equal or lesser Trophy Fee and Daily Rates at an equal or lesser rate.

3. By spending more time with one outfitter the Solo client is of the opinion there will be less stress on the PH to get the client his animals.

4. The outfitter has provided a list of interesting side trips the client has narrowed down and would like to see and do.

5. The client has picked this particular outfitter because the client is of the opinion he can within limits entertain himself while his PH takes a day or 3 to take care of personal business (vehicle maintenance included as personal business).

Hi Ridgerunner,
We have one client& wife who spends about a month with us about a month with us we all get along fine. When he wants to hunt we hunt, when we decide to fish we fish. Romantic time ??

Lon

Romantic time??

Could be a "young" couple say 30 years old.

On this trip the previous client has brought along his bride of 3 years. This will be a sort of honeymoon for them.

Or

Could be a retired couple looking to act like teenagers again.

Remember I did include a 3 days at the beach side trip.

Client/Couple would like to stay at a nice hotel for the 3 days at the beach (arrival day/night, 2 whole days and nights, depart day). Shopping, sightseeing, dining easy walking to and from hotel. PH has personal time.

________________________________________________

Please excuse the slow responses., I'm a hunt and peck typist. And as you can see my responses are more than a bit lengthy.

 

[Ridge Runner]

As I mentioned, and as @DE KLERK SAFARIS and @Tokoloshe Safaris does offer fishing, both the Solo and the Couple chose this outfitter because fishing is on the property within easy walking distance to the lodge and there are no DG animals in the area.

Thereby when the PH needs to take some personal time, with the outfitter's okay the Solo client and couple clients can entertain himself/ themselves with a self guided fishing trip. And they are willing to have a self carried snack lunch along the water. Staying within relative seeing and hearing distance to the lodge.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I'm not a PH but I do know me. I think just about any PH could hunt with my brother or my dad (if he was alive) for a month. Probably longer. For me, I think nine days is about where the welcome starts to wear out. I don't want to be with folks just because I'm paying them. I also don't want to be taking up space and maybe keeping the outfitter from working a client who's interested in stacking a pile of trophies. For that reason I prefer showing up when the season is ending. Rarely any other clients at the lodge. I have already pretty much filled my list so it's more of a leisurely trip. See what we can find. Often I can get involved in management aspects which are very interesting: do some culling, interacting with landowners, fencing, relocating breeding stock. It's about being in the bush more than just shooting stuff. Being a part of the landscape ... instead of a well dressed dude from a different planet.

The Solo client is rather easy going, likes to participate, doesn't want to be judged as another just shoots keeps his hands and clothes cleaned, watches everyone else do the dirty work while sucking down a couple of beers in the shade.

The client is courteously refrained from participating by the PH so as not to be in the way or the clients actions although with good intentions are not mistakenly interpidided as an insult.

 

[spike.t]

When I was on the other side of the counter , the first hunt we did was 30 days in the selous...was great....now this part where the ph needs a break...maybe in sa where he lives down the road or so....but in the other countries where you are hunting in the middle of nowhere, then the ph is in camp pretty much for the season.....how it is....or used to be...this again depends on the country....and am sure things have changed a bit...but in those places the long hunts involve quite a variety of species and different DG depending on the client desires...and in Tanzania multiple buff....but I must say I honestly can't imagine doing that length of time just on plains game and multiples of each species....but if I had the amount of animals needed, then if the client wanted it then I don't see any reason not to....going to be paying same as if multiple different hunters were doing shorter hunts...if the client is an asshole tough ...you in basically the hospitality industry...so suck it up ...never now you might get him/her to have a change of attitude...

 

[Ridge Runner]

When I was on the other side of the counter , the first hunt we did was 30 days in the selous...was great....now this part where the ph needs a break...maybe in sa where he lives down the road or so....but in the other countries where you are hunting in the middle of nowhere, then the ph is in camp pretty much for the season.....how it is....or used to be...this again depends on the country....and am sure things have changed a bit...but in those places the long hunts involve quite a variety of species and different DG depending on the client desires...and in Tanzania multiple buff....but I must say I honestly can't imagine doing that length of time just on plains game and multiples of each species....but if I had the amount of animals needed, then if the client wanted it then I don't see any reason not to....going to be paying same as if multiple different hunters were doing shorter hunts...if the client is an asshole tough ...you in basically the hospitality industry...so suck it up ...never now you might get him/her to have a change of attitude...

I purposely eliminated the DG and bush camp from the scenerio due to the reason you have stated. A DG and/or bush camp can easily involve a client and PH in constant contact for 24/7 for 30 days straight.

This scenario requires patience, more patience, and hopefully no personality conflicts.

Their is also more pressure on the PH, a bit less pressure to some extent on the client, but the focus is getting the hunts successfully completed.

Spoiler Alert:

The purpose here is to learn. To get an outfitter's perspective that contracts PHs (outfitter/PH perspective) as to:

Should a client spend all his time with one outfitter?

The solo client and the couple clients in these scenarios want everything relaxed no pressure on the PH to feel he needs to rush the hunts.

The solo and couple clients are fully aware "shit happens" and have qualms with their PH having to take care of personal business because they chose the outfitter based on what the clients' can do around camp without being a PITA to the outfitter and staff.

With the forementioned in mind:

Are these clients being naive in their thinking?

In that instead they are actually being a PITA to the outfitter and PH?

 

[LWPhunt]

This was a fascinating question. To those of you with Ill health, Gods speed to a good recovery.
Having been a few times, with wife and son in law and now going solo, I like it when the Outfitter, PH etc, make it reality that they too have some things to take care of. We as folks heading to SA or elsewhere, we can't be that single focused that life goes on, whether we are there or not. Time off is good, even on a 10 day hunt. When I am in camp, I find things to do, including offering to do chores and enjoy the "camaraderie" and that is just how I think it makes for simpler times in a camp. I do think that the 10 day hunt and your done in 5 is a challenge, no great answer to that, unless you talk about pacing it right away or you just plan for taking more animals. or at that point, if done, just don't put a burden on the camp and folks, lay low, entertain yourselves, go for a walk, whatever. thanks for this thought provoking situation, time to prep in advance of being there in a few weeks.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Spoiler Alert:

The purpose here is to learn.

To get outfitter's perspective that contracts PHs and outfitter/PH perspective as to:

Should a client spend all his time with one outfitter?

The solo client and the couple clients in these scenarios want everything relaxed no pressure on the PH to feel he needs to rush the hunts.

The solo and couple clients are fully aware "shit happens" and have qualms with their PH having to take care of personal business because they chose the outfitter based on what the clients' can do around camp without being a PITA to the outfitter and staff.

With the forementioned in mind:

Are these clients being naive in their thinking?

In that instead they are actually being a PITA to the outfitter and PH?

 

[375Fox]

Spoiler Alert:

The purpose here is to learn.

To get outfitter's perspective that contracts PHs and outfitter/PH perspective as to:

Should a client spend all his time with one outfitter?

The solo client and the couple clients in these scenarios want everything relaxed no pressure on the PH to feel he needs to rush the hunts.

The solo and couple clients are fully aware "shit happens" and have qualms with their PH having to take care of personal business because they chose the outfitter based on what the clients' can do around camp without being a PITA to the outfitter and staff.

With the forementioned in mind:

Are these clients being naive in their thinking?

In that instead they are actually being a PITA to the outfitter and PH?

It would be an extreme rarity to find an outfitter who would say to split a 30 day hunt with a different outfitter unless they arrange it. They’ll offer options to fill 30 days before potentially losing a client.

 

[matt85]

Most people get tired of me fairly quickly. With that said, I limit my hunts to 10 days.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Spoiler Alert:

It would be an extreme rarity to find an outfitter who would say to split a 30 day hunt with a different outfitter. They’ll offer options to fill 30 days before potentially losing a client.

My Slow hunt and peck typing:

I just started. Had to edited it.

I would hope to here some more responses from the sponsors of the forum.

I am greatful to all of you members who have chimed in as it does give prospective to my post.

These are facetious numbers so take the math with a mellow drink.

In looking through and searching outfitters I have came across some nice hunting opportunities.

As we members know most PG hunts are 7 days or 9 days total.

We also know scheduling our hunts can often be a problem with all the bosses: the one that pays and the ones governing the home, and yes believe/accept it or not good kids control good dads. Good moms are supreme rulers.

The money is saved. Time is saved. We are ready for the ultimate dream hunt. We can spend 30 days in Africa.

Two outfitters,Two separate package deals for the same species of animals, 14 days with each outfitter $20,000.00 all in: round trip airfare, tips, outfitter fees, everything $20,000.00 total.

Whoa!! Hold up!! Wait a minute!!!

Why 2 different outfitters?

Both outfitters offer the same package. Outfitter A's package is $1000.00 more for the add on trophy fees. Outfitter B's package is $500.00 less in daily fees. Additional flight airfare from Outfitter A to Outfitter B is $440.00 plus 2 days travel time. Overnight hotel stay another $200.00 plus meals.

Doing the math figuratively speaking (pun unintended)

By saying with Outfitter B there is a savings of over $2400.00 plus 2 days gained that's 30 days. That equates to 5 more animals and another side trip.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Most people get tired of me fairly quickly. With that said, I limit my hunts to 10 days.

I think our moms knew the same mailman.

 

[Ridge Runner]

It would be an extreme rarity to find an outfitter who would say to split a 30 day hunt with a different outfitter unless they arrange it. They’ll offer options to fill 30 days before potentially losing a client.

I don't think it would be an extreme rarity. I think it depends on the client's purpose.

In my case a 35 to 38 day total trip with 4 different outfitters: 2 in the north several hours apart and 2 in the East Cape roughly an hour apart.

The 2 in the north are in 2 different provinces/states. As the client yes I'm there to primarily hunt, secondary, to see as much of Africa, albeit South Africa, as I can.

The 2 outfitters in the East Cape I'm friends with so the trip is primarily to visit and renew friendships, see more of the East Cape....and to do some hunting during the visits.

 

[RR 314]

Better than the dang Spaniards who want to stay for weeks on end and only shoot warthogs.

Have a great time!

 

[Rare Breed]

I will make a simple answer.
I tip X amount per day to a PH no matter what we kill. Be it nothing or a fantastic Kudu or any other animal.
If it involves a DG animal then X amount gets added to the normal daily.
Sometimes I have had both the PHs with me each day. If this happens lead PH gets full daily and other PH gets at least 1/2 or 3/4 of that amount.

That's just the way I do it. Be it right or wrong. So far no complaints from any PHs

This has actually happened. 2022 relief PH as you would call. We finally connected on a Kudu I had been after for 3 trips over 3 years that no one had been able to get a shot at. We took him on day 17 or 18 of a 21 day hunt.

I do EXACTLY what Mark does. I also understand the difference in tips between hunting a PG versus DG with the DG being 1.5 to 2x higher for me. Just what I do

 

[Red Leg]

As John Henry Patterson (yes, that Patterson), James Audley Blyth (abruptly deceased), and Ethel Jane Bruner Blyth (subsequently comforted by her PH) would testify, a long safari is not always the best way to develop lasting close relationships.

The Villain of East Africa – John Patterson - Sporting Classics Daily

Whatever the goal, the safari became a recipe for disaster. The great elephant rounded a clump of acacia and swung toward the two hunters. Drying blood made dark stains down its wrinkled shoulder and neck, but despite its wounds, the big animal moved deceptively fast with that ambling gait that...

sportingclassicsdaily.com

Or read "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber" where the names were changed to protect the innocent - or guilty.

 

[Rare Breed]

Spoiler Alert.

As @JimP mentioned, eluded to, generally the newness wears off around 3 weeks and personalities flourish or founder.




The client and couple will be hunting. For the couple add an opportunity animals 1 giraffe and 1 zebra. The listed animals they are dividing.

These Client's are just fascinated with hunting impala, springbok, and warthogs. All other PG is mundane to them.

"To take the question a step further the client is fixated on just wanting to primarily hunt 1, 2, or 3 species like common impala, common springbok, and wart, say 10 of a single primary specy, 7 of each of 2 primary species, 6 of each 3 primary species. The client only wants 1 of each species: gemsbok or eland or kudu, wildebeest or hartebeest, and a jackal or baboon."

This is a second trip client to the outfitter. The client's first trip was solo, 2 years ago for 7 hunting days, 5 animals.

Moderate maintenance. Doesn't really want to be babysat, but understands and willing to follow the rules.

Has just enough knowledge of Africa, that in his opinion May and September are the best months to visit Africa.

From the Solo client's point of view he considers he is saving time and money by:

1. Spending his whole time with one outfitter

2. Not unpacking and packing chasing flights and spending (wasting) time traveling from and to hunt with other outfitters when the one outfitter can provide the same animals at an equal or lesser Trophy Fee and Daily Rates at an equal or lesser rate.

3. By spending more time with one outfitter the Solo client is of the opinion there will be less stress on the PH to get the client his animals.

4. The outfitter has provided a list of interesting side trips the client has narrowed down and would like to see and do.

5. The client has picked this particular outfitter because the client is of the opinion he can within limits entertain himself while his PH takes a day or 3 to take care of personal business (vehicle maintenance included as personal business).



Romantic time??

Could be a "young" couple say 30 years old.

On this trip the previous client has brought along his bride of 3 years. This will be a sort of honeymoon for them.

Or

Could be a retired couple looking to act like teenagers again.

Remember I did include a 3 days at the beach side trip.

Client/Couple would like to stay at a nice hotel for the 3 days at the beach (arrival day/night, 2 whole days and nights, depart day). Shopping, sightseeing, dining easy walking to and from hotel. PH has personal time.

________________________________________________

Please excuse the slow responses., I'm a hunt and peck typist. And as you can see my responses are more than a bit lengthy.

For my last three Safari’s I have spit my time between two outfitters in 2 different countries and have found it to be incredibly easy to do. I have so enjoyed all my PHs and hope they enjoyed me. While I know it is obvious it is worth repeating that

As John Henry Patterson (yes, that Patterson), James Audley Blyth (abruptly deceased), and Ethel Jane Bruner Blyth (subsequently comforted by her PH) would testify, a long safari is not always the best way to develop lasting close relationships.

The Villain of East Africa – John Patterson - Sporting Classics Daily

Whatever the goal, the safari became a recipe for disaster. The great elephant rounded a clump of acacia and swung toward the two hunters. Drying blood made dark stains down its wrinkled shoulder and neck, but despite its wounds, the big animal moved deceptively fast with that ambling gait that...

sportingclassicsdaily.com

Or read "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber" where the names were changed to protect the innocent - or guilty.

While this is obvious I have never found an outfitter who does not quickly warm to a humble client who takes the PH’s direction and who respects all the outfitters staff. I also have found over my last three safari’s how easy it is to split a hunt between two outfitters in two different countries

 

[Red Leg]

For my last three Safari’s I have spit my time between two outfitters in 2 different countries and have found it to be incredibly easy to do. I have so enjoyed all my PHs and hope they enjoyed me. While I know it is obvious it is worth repeating that

While this is obvious I have never found an outfitter who does not quickly warm to a humble client who takes the PH’s direction and who respects all the outfitters staff. I also have found over my last three safari’s how easy it is to split a hunt between two outfitters in two different countries

Sigh, sometimes literary humor is simply wasted.

I am sure that is true. It could be echoed by hundreds of clients and their PH's during the golden age of safari.

 

[Rare Breed]

@Red Leg I promise i did get your literary humor and as always is appreciated!!! You have so much more safari experience than most of us you could write your own book of experiences that I would gladly buy!!!!! Hint Hint

 

[Ridge Runner]

For my last three Safari’s I have spit my time between two outfitters in 2 different countries and have found it to be incredibly easy to do. I have so enjoyed all my PHs and hope they enjoyed me. While I know it is obvious it is worth repeating that

While this is obvious I have never found an outfitter who does not quickly warm to a humble client who takes the PH’s direction and who respects all the outfitters staff. I also have found over my last three safari’s how easy it is to split a hunt between two outfitters in two different countries

On my third trip over to Africa I had 2 safaris 1 horrorible outfitter/PH in Zimbabwe and 1 in the East Cape with a much PH and outfitter.

Properly planned hunting with multiple outfitters isn't hard, but can be PITA after the hunt coordinating trophy pick up to the same taxidermist.