Out of Curiosity and purily hypothetical. How long is too long? A question for outfitters

[Ridge Runner]

Just to satisfy my curiosity and purily hypothetically speaking.

I would like to here especially from outfitters their perspective on clients, and from clients who have or are contemplating having an extended hunt with one outfitter for 30 days to 40 days. A PG hunter only.

From an outfitter's perspective;

What would you consider as being the optimum length of time for a client to stay at your facility and not be a hendernce to your normal operation?

To take the question a step further the client is fixated on just wanting to primarily hunt 1, 2, or 3 species like common impala, common springbok, and wart, say 10 of a single primary specy, 7 of each of 2 primary species, 6 of each 3 primary species. The client only wants 1 of each species: gemsbok or eland or kudu, wildebeest or hartebeest, and a jackal or baboon.

The client is fairly respectful, meaning not a royal PITA you want to send packing after Day 1 or Day 2 knowing he will be there another 30+ days.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Question for you is the PH supposed to get any time off during the hunt for himself & vehicle maintenance.

Is the visiting hunter going to be alone. Or have will he have a very bored wife sitting at the lodge.

Lon

 

[IvW]

1 client same ph.....the longer the hunt the more the dynamics change.....more ups and downs.....a lot will depend on the personalities.....for me 18 to 21 days is pushing the limit.....for same ph same client....and that is dg included....only pg the dynamics may get worse....

The personalities, how long you have known each other etc. Will be the main factor....

I could not imagine 21 days with an unknown person and you have a personality clash......

 

[JimP]

While not African related a number of years ago my brother in law and myself ventured onto a 30 day hunting trip for a couple different animals across two states.

After being together for 20 or so days we just needed time apart even after being apart for a few hours each day. And we get along fantastic with each other.

People just get on each other's nerves when they are together 24//7 for that long.

Now on both of my African hunts I couldn't of picked better PH's but the hunts were only 10 days.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

I have done a couple of 21-22 days with same outfitter. I understood the need for PH to take a break and take care of personal matters etc. I had no issue with rotating PHs and hunting not with the same PH all the time for 21 days. I knew and had hunted with the other PHs before.
We were concentrating on specific PG animals and a few DG. Looking for only super mature and or a specific animal.

I have a hunt booked for 2027 with 21 days and have said to PH I will be hunting with. You need a break during the hunt no problem to have another come in for a few days while you attend to personal matters.

21 days or more is a long time for PH not to see family or attend to certain things.

 

[VertigoBE]

Very interesting question. I have done 16 and 20 day safari's, and always considered longer = better. Perhaps a next time I should approach 2 different PH's then...

 

[Ridge Runner]

Question for you is the PH supposed to get any time off during the hunt for himself & vehicle maintenance.

Is the visiting hunter going to be alone. Or have will he have a very bored wife sitting at the lodge.

Lon

Hi Lon,

Hope you are on a full recovery. Can you, or have I missed your latest, update on hopefully when, not if, you'll be back to hunting elephant(?), Or was it a buff(?) that got you.

I started to include more variables, but shied away so I could perhaps get more variables in responses as not all outfitters have the same opportunity to offer nearby/ at lodge fishing.

How about 3 responses:

1) the client is solo
2) husband and wife both hunting
3) husband and wife want 5 days romantic time over the course of their stay.

Outfitter/PH or PH can coordinate with the solo client or couple time off for personal business and vehicle maintenance.

I'll add:
1) both parties have scheduled an add on 3 day beach excursion.
2) time-frame of client's trip mid May through June.

Oh Yeah....WIFI use is minimal....neither will be burning up the outfitter's WIFI watching porn nor will either party will be staying well intoxicated over the stay.

 

[Ridge Runner]

While not African related a number of years ago my brother in law and myself ventured onto a 30 day hunting trip for a couple different animals across two states.

After being together for 20 or so days we just needed time apart even after being apart for a few hours each day. And we get along fantastic with each other.

People just get on each other's nerves when they are together 24//7 for that long.

Now on both of my African hunts I couldn't of picked better PH's but the hunts were only 10 days.

I have done a couple of 21-22 days with same outfitter. I understood the need for PH to take a break and take care of personal matters etc. I had no issue with rotating PHs and hunting not with the same PH all the time for 21 days. I knew and had hunted with the other PHs before.
We were concentrating on specific PG animals and a few DG. Looking for only super mature and or a specific animal.

I have a hunt booked for 2027 with 21 days and have said to PH I will be hunting with. You need a break during the hunt no problem to have another come in for a few days while you attend to personal matters.

21 days or more is a long time for PH not to see family or attend to certain things.

Very interesting question. I have done 16 and 20 day safari's, and always considered longer = better. Perhaps a next time I should approach 2 different PH's then...

Ok I'm going to try not to spoiler alert.

As @JimP and @Mark Biggerstaff have pointed out and why my question is PG only. It's common for clients to spend 14 to 21 days with an outfitter and/or PH on DG only and DG+PG hunts.

@Mark Biggerstaff @VertigoBE

Allow me to ask; hypothetically:

Mutually pre-planned and coordinated:

Your primary PH has turned you over to a relief PH for 2 days during that time you had an ultra fantastic hunt killing a world class record book animal.

Your primary PH has provided memorable hunts, but nothing like your relief PH.

How would you tip your relief PH compared to your primary PH who has been with you most of the time and has provided you some very good trophy animals?

 

[Ridge Runner]

1 client same ph.....the longer the hunt the more the dynamics change.....more ups and downs.....a lot will depend on the personalities.....for me 18 to 21 days is pushing the limit.....for same ph same client....and that is dg included....only pg the dynamics may get worse....

The personalities, how long you have known each other etc. Will be the main factor....

I could not imagine 21 days with an unknown person and you have a personality clash......

Oh so too close on the baiting.....but I'm not biting.......Yet.

Avoiding a spoiler alert.

 

[sureshot375]

No way I could do 30 days with a client who would come up with hypotheticals like this. I’d be ready to ship them back after week 1. Lol.

 

[Ridge Runner]

No way I could do 30 days with a client who would come up with hypotheticals like this. I’d be ready to ship them back after week 1. Lol.

Believe It or Not there is a purpose for this madness.......but not Yeeeetttt.....wait for it.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Ok I'm going to try not to spoiler alert.

As @JimP and @Mark Biggerstaff have pointed out and why my question is PG only. It's common for clients to spend 14 to 21 days with an outfitter and/or PH on DG only and DG+PG hunts.

@Mark Biggerstaff @VertigoBE

Allow me to ask; hypothetically:

Mutually pre-planned and coordinated:

Your primary PH has turned you over to a relief PH for 2 days during that time you had an ultra fantastic hunt killing a world class record book animal.

Your primary PH has provided memorable hunts, but nothing like your relief PH.

How would you tip your relief PH compared to your primary PH who has been with you most of the time and has provided you some very good trophy animals?

I will make a simple answer.
I tip X amount per day to a PH no matter what we kill. Be it nothing or a fantastic Kudu or any other animal.
If it involves a DG animal then X amount gets added to the normal daily.
Sometimes I have had both the PHs with me each day. If this happens lead PH gets full daily and other PH gets at least 1/2 or 3/4 of that amount.

That's just the way I do it. Be it right or wrong. So far no complaints from any PHs

This has actually happened. 2022 relief PH as you would call. We finally connected on a Kudu I had been after for 3 trips over 3 years that no one had been able to get a shot at. We took him on day 17 or 18 of a 21 day hunt.

 

[DE KLERK SAFARIS]

From an outfitter perspective there is a fine line that will depend on how well you know the client (friend or stranger), how much the client demands (low maintenance or otherwise), how much he hunts, etc.
The outfitter will soon realise if his hospitality is getting abused.
If a client is just driving around every day (wasting fuel, time, money, etc) and does not want to shoot a single animal then the outfitter must realise he is getting used for a cheap vacation.

I cannot afford to fire up my lodge and pay for all the staff and PH's and vehicles and fuel and wi-fi and free booze and reserve the lodge exclusively for one client that does not want to hunt.
On the other hand I have a dear friend from Texas that is almost part of the family and he comes and goes here on our ranch like he is part of us. He is really low maintenance. Last year he hunted 3 consecutive months all over Africa and he came to visit us twice in that 3 month period. He did some culling, etc. but mainly we are just good friends and he visits us and I visit him in Texas.

So each outfitter must decide himself where the fine line is.

So Ridge Runner you have kept us on the edge of our seats.
What is the purpose for this madness as you call it.

Sincerely
Hans de Klerk

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Hi Lon,

Hope you are on a full recovery. Can you, or have I missed your latest, update on hopefully when, not if, you'll be back to hunting elephant(?), Or was it a buff(?) that got you.

I started to include more variables, but shied away so I could perhaps get more variables in responses as not all outfitters have the same opportunity to offer nearby/ at lodge fishing.

How about 3 responses:

1) the client is solo
2) husband and wife both hunting
3) husband and wife want 5 days romantic time over the course of their stay.

Outfitter/PH or PH can coordinate with the solo client or couple time off for personal business and vehicle maintenance.

I'll add:
1) both parties have scheduled an add on 3 day beach excursion.
2) time-frame of client's trip mid May through June.

Oh Yeah....WIFI use is minimal....neither will be burning up the outfitter's WIFI watching porn nor will either party will be staying well intoxicated over the stay.

Hi Ridge runner,

I wish it was a buff or ele, but alas it is Cancer.

They are just about to clean me up internally very painfull so this has to be short first the outfitter has to make his normal profit for the duration. PH has to get rest and may need to take care of personal maters daily fees can and should be adjusted. There should be a agreement that a PH can be changed during a hunt.

I got to run, I need to do my twice a day root canal, now for a strong Tot. If you hear howling it is not a hyena. (I sold two more hyena) while typing this.

Lon

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

All

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Hi Ridgerunner,
We have one client& wife who spends about a month with us about a month with us we all get along fine. When he wants to hunt we hunt, when we decide to fish we fish. Romantic time ??

Lon

 

[Ridge Runner]

Hi Ridge runner,

I wish it was a buff or ele, but alas it is Cancer.

They are just about to clean me up internally very painfull so this has to be short first the outfitter has to make his normal profit for the duration. PH has to get rest and may need to take care of personal maters daily fees can and should be adjusted. There should be a agreement that a PH can be changed during a hunt.

I got to run, I need to do my twice a day root canal, now for a strong Tot. If you hear howling it is not a hyena. (I sold two more hyena) while typing this.

Lon

First, Hopes and Prayers that you can defeat the cancer and can fully recover quickly.

Secondly, Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.

I actually thought it was some very strange coyote sounds or one of them Rougarou had migrated north I was hearing in the middle of the day.

Congrats on booking 2 more hyena hunts.

Paul

 

[VertigoBE]

Hi Ridgerunner,
We have one client& wife who spends about a month with us about a month with us we all get along fine. When he wants to hunt we hunt, when we decide to fish we fish. Romantic time ??

Lon

When he decides to do romantic time, you do romantic time???

but take good care of yourself Lon! you'll beat this cancer after all is said

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Hi Paul,

All done. I wish I could answer you questions better but this is a question better answered over drinks by a campfire.

Lon

 

[375Fox]

I’ve done quite a few longer hunts 14-16 days plus travel days. I think 14 days I generally maximum for me unless we are changing areas. On the 16 day hunt, I took all primary animals in the first 7 days. I just finished a 14 day hunt and took the primary animals in the first 5 days. Once your primary animals are down I find the hunt just really loses its focus and even though it’s still fun you know you are just killing time after that. I wouldn’t do a 30 day PG hunt unless it was multiple areas of country (at least 4). I’ve never changed PHs mid-hunt but I think I’d possibly want that during a 30 day hunt as well. Everyone needs a break or a change of pace both hunter and PH I would think.