Opinions on the real big boys? 500J, 505 Gibbs, .500 NE, 577NE, 600NE, 700NE etc.

[Red Leg]

My question would be why? If you just want to own one sure, but it makes a lousy choice for someone who is just embarking for the first time with Africa as a destination. They make great stopping rifles, but a client's job is to put the first bullet in exactly the correct spot. Most people who are not extremely familiar with heavy recoiling rifles and open sights found on most heavy doubles are far less likely to make the first perfect shot. And all the sturm und drang from .500 whatever won't make up for a poorly placed shot.

Secondly, most are heavy as hell and get much heavier as the hole in the barrel(s) gets bigger. I hate dragging around useless weight when I can carry my R8 configured as a .375 and accomplish much more with it than .500 whatever.

If such a rifle is where you want to park your money, then go for it. I own a lovely Birmingham .470 that I shoot very well. But, I have yet to generate any real desire to drag it around for 15 Kms or so anywhere I have hunted buffalo.

 

[spike.t]

My question would be why? If you just want to own one sure, but it makes a lousy choice for someone who is just embarking for the first time with Africa as a destination. They make great stopping rifles, but a client's job is to put the first bullet in exactly the correct spot. Most people who are not extremely familiar with heavy recoiling rifles and open sights found on most heavy doubles are far less likely to make the first perfect shot. And all the sturm und drang from .500 whatever won't make up for a poorly placed shot.

Secondly, most are heavy as hell and get much heavier as the hole in the barrel(s) gets bigger. I hate dragging around useless weight when I can carry my R8 configured as a .375 and accomplish much more with it than .500 whatever.

If such a rifle is where you want to park your money, then go for it. I own a lovely Birmingham .470 that I shoot very well. But, I have yet to generate any real desire to drag it around for 15 Kms or so anywhere I have hunted buffalo.

Come on Joe where's thst ranger spirit?....its only a few pounds heavier than that blaser thing....and it's proper ....

 

[Green Chile]

From what I'm reading it sounds like 500NE / 500 Jeffery would be the easiest and most "affordable" of the big bore ammo to source.

If you go this direction, keep in mind that having a 500J and having one that feeds well are two different things. Rebated rim big bores like the 500J are tricky to build correctly. It's easy to find a good double (beyond the cost of entry) but harder to find a good 500J.

Having said that, Red Leg is correct (per usual) and most people would be much better served with a good bolt gun in 375 or 416. I can't over emphasize the need to be comfortable and accurate with your guns. If you ask PH's, they will tell you it's not unusual for a client to show up with a gun they are scared of or have little to no experience with. You can't make a big enough hole to make up for poor shot placement.

 

[Northern Shooter]

If you go this direction, keep in mind that having a 500J and having one that feeds well are two different things. Rebated rim big bores like the 500J are tricky to build correctly. It's easy to find a good double (beyond the cost of entry) but harder to find a good 500J.

Having said that, Red Leg is correct (per usual) and most people would be much better served with a good bolt gun in 375 or 416. I can't over emphasize the need to be comfortable and accurate with your guns. If you ask PH's, they will tell you it's not unusual for a client to show up with a gun they are scared of or have little to no experience with. You can't make a big enough hole to make up for poor shot placement.

I agree with what he and you have said as well, I doubt I'll ever actually buy one of these. It's just a matter of curiosity.

My next big game gun is going to be in .416 followed eventually by a 470 double.

I may round those out with a 458 one day but will unlikely go for a 0.500.

I'm just curious to hear from those that did, what they use it for, how they compare to the "lesser" big bores. Etc.

 

[Green Chile]

This is a great place to ask questions. I really think the 416 is an incredible option. It's like a bigger 375 and can do anything really. Just don't get one that's too light.

 

[Red Leg]

Come on Joe where's thst ranger spirit?....its only a few pounds heavier than that blaser thing....and it's proper ....

So let me offer some soldierly wisdom - Never stand when you can sit; never sit when you can lie down; never lie down when you can sleep. That British fellow Churchill even used the expression after a bit of campaigning in Natal, India, and the Sudan.

It is a very short logical step to applying the same same principle to a rifle the weight of sewer pipe, with accuracy we wouldn't tolerate in a cranky Model 1911, and the recoil of a baseball bat swung by Ty Cobb.

But as I say, if that is somewhere an aspiring African hunter wants to park his money - sure why not. I would simply suggest putting the first shot exactly where it needs to go with enough gun might be a more useful goal.

 

[Aaron N]

I bought a CZ in 505 a couple months ago, and I finally had a chance to shoot it this week. To be honest, I didn’t hate it! I pretty much jumped from 375 straight to 505. I did have a few (maybe 4) 450/400 shots in between the two, but I was pleasantly surprised how “manageable” it actually was.

 

[NJC]

A lot depends on the rifle weight and how the stock fits you and "felt recoil" is different for everyone.

In my opinion @Green Chile hit on the most important part In shooting the really big stuff…. Rifle fit.
My brother and I are similar height but have very different builds which leads to us having different stock dimension requirements. We can shoot each others 375s with no problem (a blend of 4 different manufacturers and 5 different models) but when we get to the upper .40’s and 500’s fit makes a rifle either unmanageable or completely controllable.
For instance, my 470 with a standard dimensioned stock would absolutely destroy the fingers on my shooting hand and bruise my cheek after a couple of shots, my brother on the other hand could shoot it comfortably all day. When I later picked up a 500 that had my specific dimensions I can manage it easily with no finger smashing or cheek bruising while my brother gets absolutely mangled.
I can only imagine how much much more critical fit would be with something like a 600ne or a full charge 505.

 

[colorado]

CZ 550s are great rifles at a bargain price. Action milled from solid billet. Solid as a bank vault. Wayne at AHR put his single stage match trigger, M70 3 Pos type safety. I absolutely love the gun.

 

[ActionBob]

I bought a CZ in 505 a couple months ago, and I finally had a chance to shoot it this week. To be honest, I didn’t hate it! I pretty much jumped from 375 straight to 505. I did have a few (maybe 4) 450/400 shots in between the two, but I was pleasantly surprised how “manageable” it actually was.

The CZ 550 in 505 Gibbs is particularly well done, nicely balanced and the mercury tube helps As does the big far stock

 

[ActionBob]

There was a fellow on here building 577 trex based on p17 enfield.quite reasonable actually

And a 585 @matt85 ?

 

[DLSJR]

If you want one of the calibers you mentioned, by all means go for it. But, don‘t kid yourself into believing you need one to hunt buffalo…. You don’t.

A 375 or 416 work just fine for any client who hunts buffalo or any other dangerous game. If you doubt this, just ponder that more buffalo have been killed with a 375 than all of the cartridges you mentioned, all added together.

 

[Pondoro]

If you want one of the calibers you mentioned, by all means go for it. But, don‘t kid yourself into believing you need one to hunt buffalo…. You don’t.

A 375 or 416 work just fine for any client who hunts buffalo or any other dangerous game. If you doubt this, just ponder that more buffalo have been killed with a 375 than all of the cartridges you mentioned, all added together.

For the topic starter...this sums it up.. .45 caliber and up is for elephant hunting..that said a .470NE is also very useful on buffalo but not needed..

 

[grand veneur]

First I wanted to answer about the sense of using Big Bores for hunting Big Game in general, but the question is about weapons caliber 50 and above.

I own a few, mostly hunted with my rifle caliber 500 Schüler, and can therefore say that rifles caliber 50 and up are primarily weapons for elephant hunting. For the other Big Game you don't need something like that.

The recoil of such weapons is significantly stronger than that of a rifle caliber 45, so that it is necessary to practice before regularly with weapons of the latter caliber.

DR caliber 577NE or 600NE are relics from the old days and can hardly be used nowadays, a time where local hunting conditions are often no longer the same as in the old times.

 

[uplander01]

It's ironic on this site how logic interjects randomly about cost or what a traveling hunter should use. In general we are all participants in the most expensive hobby on earth barring collector cars, trophy wives, boats, planes, or real estate. A fine rifle is a thing to behold in any caliber and if you have the discipline to master it, take it on a hunt and use it. Shooting truly large bores .5 and up isn't easy to master, but it can be done if you're willing to make the time and money investment. I used a very fine 500j on my last safari for 2 buff. I practiced for a year with it, (I'm a hand loader), I didn't keep count but I'm sure I put 500 or more rounds through it to get ready. I only wanted to use open sights which added to the complexity and effort put forth on the hunt. It was very satisfying. Will I take it over again?..., I don't know, I have some 404's, 416's, and 375's that are dandies and much easier to shoot and carry. My goal is to use everything I have on safari at least once. This safari business means different things to different people, for me its about the fine firearms that are in my opinion functioning works of art. Big bore rifles are cool for sure (and expensive), I think everyone would agree there, but are they for everyone, probably not. I might add that if its your first time to go over, I'd probably recommend focusing on your current useable equipment, boots, binos, and physical conditioning and get some experience and success, then start making choices about big rifles and what you're going to chase next.

 

[grand veneur]

I fully agree with this post above.

In the end it's a question for aficionados, and if someone wants to use such a weapon caliber 50 and up, then he should do it. I don't want talk anyone out of it, I'll just point out some particularities from personal experience.

One don't necessarily need such a weapon for hunting Big Game except may be for elephants, but contrary to what the small caliber faction of the Big Game hunter always repeatedly claimed, one can master such weapons, and whoever can do it, has a clear advantage because the larger the caliber, the larger the holes and wound channels. Everything is a matter of will and then training. Latter is sure very important how more difficult it is to master such weapons caliber 50 and up.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Blaser make an affordable 500 Jeffery, I owned one for a couple of years its a great rifle. I added extra weight and a new recoil pad to it and it was good to go. However, the 450 Rigby is by far my favourite big cartridge, can run it up to similar ballistics to that of a 500 Jeffery and in most places around the world there is a wider range of 458 calibre bullets available. I run 550 grain woodleighs at 2240fps out of my 450 Rigby.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

First I wanted to answer about the sense of using Big Bores for hunting Big Game in general, but the question is about weapons caliber 50 and above.

I own a few, mostly hunted with my rifle caliber 500 Schüler, and can therefore say that rifles caliber 50 and up are primarily weapons for elephant hunting. For the other Big Game you don't need something like that.

The recoil of such weapons is significantly stronger than that of a rifle caliber 45, so that it is necessary to practice before regularly with weapons of the latter caliber.

DR caliber 577NE or 600NE are relics from the old days and can hardly be used nowadays, a time where local hunting conditions are often no longer the same as in the old times.

While the 600NE has declined in popularity the fire is still alive and well on the 577NE. Ask Chris how many he sells per year and you may be surprised.

Commenting on another response as to costs and availability…Nothing in this passionate pursuit is inexpensive. Components for the 505 Gibbs and 577NE are available.

When I go to Africa to hunt I’m well aware that a 375 H&H can do everything but what fun is their in that! I want to walk in some of the footsteps of our hunting predecessors and experience Africa the way they did. Hunting with the appropriate rifle and caliber is part of that enjoyment for me.

All of the calibers mentioned get you there except the 500NE which is only slightly more rifle than the 470NE although of the calibers is the most available of those mentioned.

Get one of them and go hunt!

HH

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

If you can handle the recoil, can practice enough to be proficient, have excepted inherent limitations/possible consequences and are fit enough then go for it!

 

[RAVEN ROCKS PRECISION]

I was curious to know what the prices are like on these larger calibers so I looked up local prices (Canada) for comparison. These are the lowest prices that I could find.

505 Gibbs - $320/box (10 rounds, $32/round) - Yikes.
500 NE - $210/box (20 rounds, ($10.5/round) - Not bad.

And...that's it. Not seeing any 500J, 577's, 600'sm 700's etc. I'm guessing many of the owners of these cartridges are invested in handloading as retail options appear to be limited.

505 Gibbs is the most expensive ammo that we carry right now (just under $150 a box) but we have a good amount of brass. It’s still not cheap, and A-frame bullets we have in stock are pretty expensive as well. We will likely run a sale on the 505 Gibbs brass on May 5th and are hoping to be able to ship to Canada by then.