O/U versus Side by side

[steve white]

Due to damaged retina in my left eye, it must be closed when I get on the target with my shotgun. So I'm not seeing the side of the barrel(s), only the top. I do use both eyes to acquire the target, mostly for depth perception. One should not be looking at the barrel when shooting at moving targets. Eye(s) should stay on the target.

With both eyes open, that's when my left eye sometimes picks up the side profile. I don't want to shut one eye, even at the last minute, tho I would if I had to due to problems.

 

[Red Leg]

I agree, and I believe it to be caused by the side to side torque that I described.

If we had large numbers of high pressure O/U guns, say .375 H&H on up, we would see as many problems with those, but it would take place in different areas of the locking system and receiver.

It is difficult to compare the overall longevity of SXS vs O/U rifles because so many o/s are built on a shotgun action and not a true from the ground up rifle action.

The Germanic multi barrel guns, which I'm sure you are familiar with are another thing altogether. The receiver and locking system is usually much heavier than a typical shotgun. Two reasons so many of these remain tight after over 100 years of use is the initial quality, and because many rounds were fired through the smaller caliber barrels. Come to think of it, they also had the most powerful caliber closest to the cl of the hinge pin. This would make the most sense from a design perspective. The men that built those old combination guns knew exactly what they were doing.

Excellent points. In SxS, I think the old German Muschelschloss action may have been the strongest ever created. Schuller built his 600 double using it.

This my double rifle drilling in 9.3x74R. Over a hundred years young, I'm not sure it could shoot loose.

 

[PerH]

@Hunter-Habib has that absolutely correct. Moreover, I think the impact of that German victory on the budding safari industry as a whole would have been far greater than just rifle choices. Allied defeat in WWI, which was a very real possibility well into 1918, would have meant that Germany retained both German East (Tanzania) and German Southwest (Namibia) Africa. In the same way it lost these two colonies as a result of the war, Great Britain would almost certainly have lost its East African colonies (Kenya and Uganda) to Germany. German influence rather than British would have dominated South Africa. We should also assume the Germans would have also dominated French and Belgian holdings in East and North Africa had they demanded them.

The safari industry really took off in the interwar years. As noted above, that industry was dominated by the British while much German development of rifles and loadings for Africa largely came to a halt. Hence, the rise of all things British, including their concepts of dangerous game loads and rifles. Had our alternative universe occurred, those inter-war American hunters would have been created by a PH named Albrecht rather than Philip. His stopping rifle would almost certainly have been an OU in a new heavy rimmed metric caliber. Safari would now be thought of as very much through the eyes of German culture and norms.

It is likely that would have remained the case throughout the century, because much of the rise of Hitler and the Nazi movement which led to WWII can be attributed directly to the defeat in WWI and the resulting Treaty of Versailles. I rather suspect that might well have been better alternative history than the one we actually experienced. Though, if we hunted Africa, we all would have been studying some German because it would likely be the alternative to English as a universal language - particularly in Africa.

Regardless of history, I think we can confidently predict that the heavy bore SxS would have been a quaint oddity of English gun development while the forum here debated the relative merits of their Merfert and Jaeger OU doubles.

I love SxS shotguns, and my most used double rifle is a Blaser S2 (fortunately without many of the annoying attributes of a traditional design). But an OU really is a superior design. It is inherently easier to regulate and to scope; it is just as fast to reload as a SxS (yes, I know the myth, but you can prove it to yourself with a SxS and OU shotgun); and smaller calibers work just as well as stoppers meaning they would have been a popular option for all game far more than a SxS double is today.

The fact that our alternative world didn't happen changes nothing about the actual merits of various designs - merely what is considered "traditional."

Plus a lot of low production/ prototypes would gone into serial production and we would have had Barella , Schuler , Merkel , Schiwy , Forester of Berlin ,bolt , combos and doubles to choose from ,

Bengt Berg Simson set would been there to enjoy , aswell as several others also .

There would be no need for RUM ammo, that would been solved by DWM on their x73 case

(.404 as basis )

 

[rookhawk]

Uh no? I think most British gunners would disagree with you as would many Americans. I shoot both well, and prefer a SxS for all actual hunting. Though, I have often shot in the nineties, usually high nineties, on clays courses with my SxS's. I also don't poke at game, both sets of barrels move. Virtually all my box bird shooting is with SxS's. Those barrels are really moving.

@Red Leg is correct. A SxS is better for swing, an O/U is better for a rising shot. The O/U also has a narrower sight picture which is important for high-gun shooters so their eye doesn't blur out, a low-gun SxS shooter couldn't care less.

O/U have a larger gape and require a lot more barrel tilt to ensure ejection of the lower cartridge. This alone is probably why the SxS double rifle still reigns supreme, they load faster and are less likely to have a jammed ejection than the bottom barrel of an O/U.

Initial regulation of an O/U is easier because the recoil impulse is in the same direction, whereas a SxS is more complicated to build because the recoil wedge must account for asymmetric recoil. They do not recoil with the same impulse reaction on right and left barrels so it isn't just "splitting the difference" at the regulation wedge.

 

[Esoteric Junkie]

This is your brain S/S

This is your brain on drugs O/U.........

Enough said......

EJ

 

[9Point3]

What is good preferred LOP for doubles, either SxS or O/U? Are we bumping up against 15”?