Not The Best South African Tourist Advert

[Paul Raley]

As a SA resident let me explain the reality of how we live and survive . Since the ruling party took over in 1994 they have destroyed nearly all state departments , companies and municipalities with incompetence and corruption .
Our infrastructure such as roads , railways , water supply and electricity supply is collapsing and failing .
During load shedding criminals are stealing cables and committing more crimes .
Crime rates , especially violent crime rates including murder , rape , robbery , hijacking and assault are some of the highest in the world .
Human rights abuses are rife with some even being supported by the courts , the song "kill the farmer , kill the boer" was ruled by a court not to be hate speech .
Violent criminals do as they please as the police service is largely ineffective . Many policemen are involved in crime and many are incompetent .
In the community I live in we have our own community response teams to respond to emergencies ( Crime , medical , fire and others ) , the reason being is that during an emergency the statutory services are mostly ineffectual . Communities work with private security and medical responders to protect innocent citizens . There are good policemen but depending on the area they could be the minority , not have resources such as radios and vehicles , be intimidated by other policemen/criminals , etc , but where possible communities do try work with the good policemen .
The fact is in most areas in SA one cannot rely on any state department responding timeously to an emergency , we have to look after ourselves .
It can literally take hours for statutory first responders to arrive on a scene .
Our community responders are part of the local CPF ( community police forum) and are normally the first responders on scene together with private security companies and paramedics . Our members are trained and fully kitted with bullet proof vests , radios , firearms and night vision - this is a matter of survival , we have no choice .
I live in fairly close proximity to ORT International airport in Johannesburg , our area is comprised of small farms / agricultural holdings , residential areas and a few larger farms , and crime is rife here .
Many of the highways in SA can be very dangerous for armed attacks and hijackings , including some of the highways in the surrounding areas around the airport . The one piece of N12 highway close to where I stay is notoriously dangerous , if it is reported that ordinary citizens are stranded on the highway the community responders and / private security are immediately dispatched to protect the persons . Many people have been attacked and murdered on these highways .
Many citizens do carry firearms for self defence in the hope they are not needed, because using ones firearm for self defence even if justified can bring a world
trouble and trauma from the police and / or courts .
Just this morning at 3 am a few kms from my house an old couple on an agricultural holding was attacked in a home invasion / robbery . Luckily they were not severely hurt , but they were tied up for hours before they could get free .
Over the years I have responded to many incidents where people have been brutally murdered , raped , assaulted , etc and there is no end in sight , in fact it is getting worse as confirmed by our crime statistics .
I can give many examples of heinous crimes I have attended and that I know of but due to time and not being the correct platform I will not , but suffice to say things in SA are not always what they seem .
Violent crime in SA does vary geographically but the fact is we do live in a violent country where the government does very little to address it , in fact I would say their incompetence and corruption is the root cause of our problems - just like many countries I am sure .
The above is reality but what is also true is that we do have a nice country with many good people of all races , the survival and prosperity of SA will depend on all the good people standing together as was witnessed in the July 2021 Riots in KZN , lets hope and pray that things do not get as bad as they can , which is also a possibility with so called "leaders" like Malema .

 

[flatwater bill]

@Paul Raley............Sorry to hear that, but you told a very factual account of what's happening there. We in the USA are on a trajectory that should have us arriving at a similar state in about 2 years. Already we have hired without regard to compatentcy for most agencies....transportation being one of the most notable. Police defunded, crooked FBI and DOJ along with heads of military chosen for their gender affirmation surgeries. Combine this with over 200,000 illegals pouring in to stretched social services each month, and we expect load shedding here this winter. For 3 years no black person has been shown committing a crime, or having been apprehended. on MNM, making them sound like church boys, while every white caused crime is beaten to death and labeled white supremecy and a hate crime. No wonder they hate us after the propaganda they've been fed. ...thus skewing our casual crime reports to be all white implemented hate crimes, (driving a wedge between the races.) The media has painted us as evil, and we can legally be robbed, beaten, raped, and even killed with no punishment. This will be the first major country to collapse under crime and debt: The USA. We have leaders like Malema.....only they are more subtle and insidious. What does China know about "The Big Guy" for instance, and what are they threatening him with? Last year China called in part of what Joe owed them...945,000 barrels of oil form the Strategic Petroleum Reserve......(why else would he do it)> That won't be the last time a chip is called in from Joe................

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

As a SA resident let me explain the reality of how we live and survive . Since the ruling party took over in 1994 they have destroyed nearly all state departments , companies and municipalities with incompetence and corruption .
Our infrastructure such as roads , railways , water supply and electricity supply is collapsing and failing .
During load shedding criminals are stealing cables and committing more crimes .
Crime rates , especially violent crime rates including murder , rape , robbery , hijacking and assault are some of the highest in the world .
Human rights abuses are rife with some even being supported by the courts , the song "kill the farmer , kill the boer" was ruled by a court not to be hate speech .
Violent criminals do as they please as the police service is largely ineffective . Many policemen are involved in crime and many are incompetent .
In the community I live in we have our own community response teams to respond to emergencies ( Crime , medical , fire and others ) , the reason being is that during an emergency the statutory services are mostly ineffectual . Communities work with private security and medical responders to protect innocent citizens . There are good policemen but depending on the area they could be the minority , not have resources such as radios and vehicles , be intimidated by other policemen/criminals , etc , but where possible communities do try work with the good policemen .
The fact is in most areas in SA one cannot rely on any state department responding timeously to an emergency , we have to look after ourselves .
It can literally take hours for statutory first responders to arrive on a scene .
Our community responders are part of the local CPF ( community police forum) and are normally the first responders on scene together with private security companies and paramedics . Our members are trained and fully kitted with bullet proof vests , radios , firearms and night vision - this is a matter of survival , we have no choice .
I live in fairly close proximity to ORT International airport in Johannesburg , our area is comprised of small farms / agricultural holdings , residential areas and a few larger farms , and crime is rife here .
Many of the highways in SA can be very dangerous for armed attacks and hijackings , including some of the highways in the surrounding areas around the airport . The one piece of N12 highway close to where I stay is notoriously dangerous , if it is reported that ordinary citizens are stranded on the highway the community responders and / private security are immediately dispatched to protect the persons . Many people have been attacked and murdered on these highways .
Many citizens do carry firearms for self defence in the hope they are not needed, because using ones firearm for self defence even if justified can bring a world
trouble and trauma from the police and / or courts .
Just this morning at 3 am a few kms from my house an old couple on an agricultural holding was attacked in a home invasion / robbery . Luckily they were not severely hurt , but they were tied up for hours before they could get free .
Over the years I have responded to many incidents where people have been brutally murdered , raped , assaulted , etc and there is no end in sight , in fact it is getting worse as confirmed by our crime statistics .
I can give many examples of heinous crimes I have attended and that I know of but due to time and not being the correct platform I will not , but suffice to say things in SA are not always what they seem .
Violent crime in SA does vary geographically but the fact is we do live in a violent country where the government does very little to address it , in fact I would say their incompetence and corruption is the root cause of our problems - just like many countries I am sure .
The above is reality but what is also true is that we do have a nice country with many good people of all races , the survival and prosperity of SA will depend on all the good people standing together as was witnessed in the July 2021 Riots in KZN , lets hope and pray that things do not get as bad as they can , which is also a possibility with so called "leaders" like Malema .

Johannesburg is a cestpool. I would never live in it, or anywhere near it for that matter. There is a reason why there is so much money there. You HAVE to pay people three times the money to get them to agree to go there.

 

[Ridge Runner]

In my early post referencing about buying land, I was/am looking for a place in the rural area of the East Cape, Grahamstown, Port Alfred, a couple of other similar areas.

Judging a country by one or two or ten of the country's largest cities doesn't mean the whole country is one giant criminal haven.

A few years ago the city with the highest crime rate here in the USA was a very small town in Texas, this same town for several consecutive years prior was known as the safest place in America to live. The murder rate went up 100% over night.
That's right 100% overnight.

This tiny rural Texas town had 2 murders about 20+[(?) maybe 40+] years ago. Shortly before the time of this particular crime rating report was published, 2 murders occurred. Thereby making this town the most dangerous to live in.

Oh BTW the crime report failed to mention the criminal was apprehended not long, maybe the next day(?) or 3 days(?), at most within the week of the crime.

I could be wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, the killer was a known transient to the community. The couple (victums) hired him to do menial miscellaneous odd jobs around their property in exchange giving him food, housing, and wages for his work.

 

[Doubleplay]

As a SA resident let me explain the reality of how we live and survive . Since the ruling party took over in 1994 they have destroyed nearly all state departments , companies and municipalities with incompetence and corruption .
Our infrastructure such as roads , railways , water supply and electricity supply is collapsing and failing .
During load shedding criminals are stealing cables and committing more crimes .
Crime rates , especially violent crime rates including murder , rape , robbery , hijacking and assault are some of the highest in the world .
Human rights abuses are rife with some even being supported by the courts , the song "kill the farmer , kill the boer" was ruled by a court not to be hate speech .
Violent criminals do as they please as the police service is largely ineffective . Many policemen are involved in crime and many are incompetent .
In the community I live in we have our own community response teams to respond to emergencies ( Crime , medical , fire and others ) , the reason being is that during an emergency the statutory services are mostly ineffectual . Communities work with private security and medical responders to protect innocent citizens . There are good policemen but depending on the area they could be the minority , not have resources such as radios and vehicles , be intimidated by other policemen/criminals , etc , but where possible communities do try work with the good policemen .
The fact is in most areas in SA one cannot rely on any state department responding timeously to an emergency , we have to look after ourselves .
It can literally take hours for statutory first responders to arrive on a scene .
Our community responders are part of the local CPF ( community police forum) and are normally the first responders on scene together with private security companies and paramedics . Our members are trained and fully kitted with bullet proof vests , radios , firearms and night vision - this is a matter of survival , we have no choice .
I live in fairly close proximity to ORT International airport in Johannesburg , our area is comprised of small farms / agricultural holdings , residential areas and a few larger farms , and crime is rife here .
Many of the highways in SA can be very dangerous for armed attacks and hijackings , including some of the highways in the surrounding areas around the airport . The one piece of N12 highway close to where I stay is notoriously dangerous , if it is reported that ordinary citizens are stranded on the highway the community responders and / private security are immediately dispatched to protect the persons . Many people have been attacked and murdered on these highways .
Many citizens do carry firearms for self defence in the hope they are not needed, because using ones firearm for self defence even if justified can bring a world
trouble and trauma from the police and / or courts .
Just this morning at 3 am a few kms from my house an old couple on an agricultural holding was attacked in a home invasion / robbery . Luckily they were not severely hurt , but they were tied up for hours before they could get free .
Over the years I have responded to many incidents where people have been brutally murdered , raped , assaulted , etc and there is no end in sight , in fact it is getting worse as confirmed by our crime statistics .
I can give many examples of heinous crimes I have attended and that I know of but due to time and not being the correct platform I will not , but suffice to say things in SA are not always what they seem .
Violent crime in SA does vary geographically but the fact is we do live in a violent country where the government does very little to address it , in fact I would say their incompetence and corruption is the root cause of our problems - just like many countries I am sure .
The above is reality but what is also true is that we do have a nice country with many good people of all races , the survival and prosperity of SA will depend on all the good people standing together as was witnessed in the July 2021 Riots in KZN , lets hope and pray that things do not get as bad as they can , which is also a possibility with so called "leaders" like Malema .

"suffice to say things in SA are not always what they seem"
%100 agreed and what I've been trying to say all along.

 

[Doubleplay]

Ive spent time in SA recently..

It really depends on where in SA you are talking about and where in the US you are talking about..

I shopped in VERY nice shops in Cape Town.. bought a couple of very nice luxury items.. and then WALKED 1.8 KM back to my hotel with those items in hand (a fairly large tube containing high end art work, and a bag clearly marked with the store logo containing very nice clothing items).. with my wife and my daughter.. and we all felt perfectly safe..

We self drove all over WC province while we were there.. from Cape Town down to Cape Point.. from Cape Town out to Stellenbosh, all around the city itself, etc.. never a problem.. and felt perfectly safe.. Also experienced ZERO load shedding.. we ate at fine dining establishments.. stayed in a 4 star western hotel (the westin).. etc... Frankly it was far nicer, and far safer than if we had attempted to do the same thing in Paris or London...

Johannesburg.. that is a completely different story..

But so are Dallas and Detroit.. There are parts of Detroit I wouldnt go to at 10PM on a Tuesday, any week of the year.. ESPECIALLY not with my wife and one of my children in tow..

I was a cop in the Memphis metro area for a bit more than a decade.. There are parts of that city I would not go to at 10PM on a Tuesday, any week of the year, even when I was a cop, with a badge in my pocket and a pistol on my hip at times I was off duty.. ESPECIALLY not with my wife and one of my children in tow..

Load shedding is just another word for "rolling brown outs".. something California residents deal with as a matter of routine these days (not to the extent of SA.. but we have them here as well unfortunately)..

New Orleans is the #8 city in the world for highest homicide rate.. The first South Africa city doesnt show up on the list until #12... Baltimore, Detroit, and Memphis come in at 17, 23, 25 respectively..

For overall violent crime proportional to population.. St. Louis and Detroit were ranked #1 and #2 in the world (for what its worth, Baghdad Iraq was #3, Kabul Afghanistan #4, Chicago #5, and Tijuana #6..

Im not claiming SA doesnt have real problems.. and that people traveling there shouldnt be careful and/or aware of whats going on around them..

But if folks believe shopping in Highland Park in Dallas or Bel Air in LA is indicative of the safety and security and stability of the US.. they need to open their eyes..

There are plenty of places, both rural and urban in SA that are FAR safer than parts of the US.. and there are plenty of places, both rural and urban in the US that are FAR safer than parts of SA..

Its all about where you specifically are, and what you are specifically doing, and how you are specifically behaving...

Speaking of Cape Town Ongoing situation:

British doctor shot and killed in Cape Town amid violent taxi strike protests

The man, 40, took wrong turning from airport into Nyanga township, where protests were taking place

www.theguardian.com

 

[Paul Raley]

The photo below is of a family that had rocks thrown at them earlier this week in Cape Town , notice the young child that is injured , obviously the whole family will be traumatised too . In my opinion anyone that behaves in a way that terrorises and hurts innocent people , especially children , women and the old , irrespective of their color or creed are savages .

 

[mdwest]

No one isnt saying there cant be problems in Cape Town...

There are frankly problems in every major city on the planet..

How many people do you think were shot in Chicago last weekend? The weekend of June 20th there were 75 shot, 14 of which were killed..

As of this week there have been 365 murders in Chicago this year (that is a VERY SMALL fraction of the number of people shot in total.. most have thankfully survived)..

Homicides in Chicago: A list of every victim | Chicago Sun-Times

Information about Chicago's homicide victims, compiled by journalists, including breakdowns of where and when incidents occurred, updated daily.

graphics.suntimes.com

FWIW, the homicide rate in Cape Town is roughly the same as the homicide rate in Baltimore...

Lets look at Cape Town further.. in 2021, Cape Town averaged 64 murders per 100,000 people..

Flint Michigan.. a city of of only 81,000 people.. had 57 murders.. which is an average of 71 per 100,000 people... St. Louis averaged 88 murders per 100,000 people..

Think those numbers are bad? Guess where the highest per capita % of shooting related murders are in the US?

Significantly less populated states. Mississippi is #1 in the US.. followed by Louisiana.. followed by New Mexico.. followed by Wyoming..


Re-read prior posts.. what has been said is... there are places in the US that are just as bad, and sometimes worse, than parts of South Africa.. that while SA is definitely on a serious downward trajectory, all parts of the country are not all gloom and doom.. and, if you believe the US isnt also on a serious downward trajectory and that there arent significant violent crime, corruption, etc problems here.. you should open your eyes..

Dont trust me on the numbers.. click the link above and do a little googling...

 

[Doubleplay]

My eyes are wide open thanks you.

I'm not saying US is free of crime and homicide. We've been on a downward trajectory for years it's nothing new.
We're definitely the worst place among the first World countries, no doubt when it comes to homicide and mass shootings.

However you're constantly trying to compare US to SA and throwing out numbers and links but in reality there's no comparison. Of course it's not doom and gloom everywhere but:

South Africa is failing state and if it stays on the same trajectory something is going to give up in the very near future,
If the power grid has a total failure soon, which some experts predicts, watch out.
There's even talk about Cape Town region declaring separation and independence.
Todays there was talk in SA parliament about expelling US ambassador because of them sending arms to Russia incident.
Unemployment is %35-40!

Last time I looked we are still the most powerful country in the World and all our local and state government services are working and we're not living behind electric fences with panic buttons in every room and armed private security patrolling neighborhoods with rolling blackouts throughout the country and our economy is in good shape with %3 unemployment!

All aside hopefully I will be there 2-3 months next year because I have family to visit and I'm not deterred.

Speaking of links here's a link to the countries of the World for safety rankings and I think it shows all needs to be told on this subject;

Safety Index by Country 2023

www.numbeo.com

Respectfully.

 

[mdwest]

It sounds like we are actually largely in agreement, and most likely talking past one another rather than actually communicating..

there is no intent to directly compare the US to South Africa... Ive literally spent the better part of the last 30 years traveling the "developing" world, have "worked" to one degree or another in more than 100 countries, etc... I absolutely recognize the difference(s) in fully developed economies and political systems vs developing economies, political systems, cultures, etc..

theres also zero argument that South Africa is rife with problems and troubles.. many of which are getting progressively worse.. and that neither the locals, nor I, believe that most of these problems are going to improve or get any better anytime in the foreseeable future..

the only points that have been made, counter to what some folks have presented in this thread and in others, is that there are parts of the country that are indeed safe comparatively to western, developed countries, and that there parts of western, developed countries that are indeed unsafe.. that, as stated much earlier in this thread, it is all situation dependent.. just like you wouldnt want to be wandering around in downtown Paris during the labor riots, you also wouldnt want to be rolling through the wrong neighborhoods in Jo-berg post a national election.. and.. just like you can go para-gliding and enjoy the wonderful views safely at Sedona Red Rocks.. you can also go para-gliding and enjoy the wonderful views equally safely from Table Mountain on the outskirts of Cape Town..

In addition to visiting South Africa often, I also have a current business operation in Mogadishu, Somalia (among many other garden spots around the globe).. whether anyone wants to believe it or not, there are parts of Mogadishu that I would prefer to be in at 2AM on a Tuesday than parts of London or Brussels or Seattle.. or Cape Town for that matter.. (Bancroft Camp on the beach in Mog is actually very safe compared to a few neighborhoods I worked a billion years ago in my cop days)..

I also lived and worked in Juba, South Sudan off and on for a period of 4 years.. to include during their most recent civil war.. the camp I stayed at in Juba was very safe as was the surrounding area, compared to a number of places in the developed western world..

For that matter, I used to drive around Kabul, Afghanistan in an unarmored vehicle, by myself, with nothing more than a pistol on.. as did a LOT of expats during the 2007-2010 time frame.. used to go into town at eat at a number of restaurants, shop at a variety of places, etc... was it as nice or as safe as Allen, TX most days.. absolutely not.. but.. was it secure and safe compared to gangland parts of Chicago in 2023.. absolutely..

 

[Doubleplay]

It sounds like we are actually largely in agreement, and most likely talking past one another rather than actually communicating..

there is no intent to directly compare the US to South Africa... Ive literally spent the better part of the last 30 years traveling the "developing" world, have "worked" to one degree or another in more than 100 countries, etc... I absolutely recognize the difference(s) in fully developed economies and political systems vs developing economies, political systems, cultures, etc..

theres also zero argument that South Africa is rife with problems and troubles.. many of which are getting progressively worse.. and that neither the locals, nor I, believe that most of these problems are going to improve or get any better anytime in the foreseeable future..

the only points that have been made, counter to what some folks have presented in this thread and in others, is that there are parts of the country that are indeed safe comparatively to western, developed countries, and that there parts of western, developed countries that are indeed unsafe.. that, as stated much earlier in this thread, it is all situation dependent.. just like you wouldnt want to be wandering around in downtown Paris during the labor riots, you also wouldnt want to be rolling through the wrong neighborhoods in Jo-berg post a national election.. and.. just like you can go para-gliding and enjoy the wonderful views safely at Sedona Red Rocks.. you can also go para-gliding and enjoy the wonderful views equally safely from Table Mountain on the outskirts of Cape Town..

In addition to visiting South Africa often, I also have a current business operation in Mogadishu, Somalia (among many other garden spots around the globe).. whether anyone wants to believe it or not, there are parts of Mogadishu that I would prefer to be in at 2AM on a Tuesday than parts of London or Brussels or Seattle.. or Cape Town for that matter.. (Bancroft Camp on the beach in Mog is actually very safe compared to a few neighborhoods I worked a billion years ago in my cop days)..

I also lived and worked in Juba, South Sudan off and on for a period of 4 years.. to include during their most recent civil war.. the camp I stayed at in Juba was very safe as was the surrounding area, compared to a number of places in the developed western world..

For that matter, I used to drive around Kabul, Afghanistan in an unarmored vehicle, by myself, with nothing more than a pistol on.. as did a LOT of expats during the 2007-2010 time frame.. used to go into town at eat at a number of restaurants, shop at a variety of places, etc... was it as nice or as safe as Allen, TX most days.. absolutely not.. but.. was it secure and safe compared to gangland parts of Chicago in 2023.. absolutely..

We can definitely talk about a lot of subjects drinking beer... Cheers.

 

[Safari Dave]

The USA needs all the Boers we can get!


Come to Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, Texas, Kentucky, Arkansas or South Carolina if you like mild winters.

Come to Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota or South Dakota if you can tolerate cold. (Better big-game hunting).

All you have to do it to fly to the closest city in Mexico to the USA and start traveling north.

Our border is wide open!

 

[JvW]

As someone who has lived in Australia for the past year but went back to South Africa for a two-week stay in July, the changes (for the worse) in the country was very much apparent. The water and electricity crises are getting worse and are really, really starting to bite into the South African economy. It has reached the point where you have to start planning your life and your business around when the lights will be on or not, and this is taking a huge toll. Something is going to give in this regard. It's inevitable. I have friends who are dependant upon especially electricity to keep their businesses going. The overall picture is bleak, to say the least.

Something else that's undeniable is how the cost of living has increased dramatically in South Africa. Some of our old and familiar favourites have literally doubled in price in a year's time! Food, even the basics, are expensive in South Africa! I have no idea how the families earning minimum wage and living on or below the breadline keep things going.

Crime and violence. Well, anyone claiming that "it's not so bad" is either in denial or is simply not willing to face the facts. The South African Police, just like most other sectors of the South African government, is for all purposes dysfunctional. Many parts of South Africa have become no-go zones, and this includes stretches of the N1 highway. It's simply no longer safe to travel there alone and at night. Look at what happened to the British surgeon who "took a wrong turn" in Cape Town but a day or so ago. Look at the farm murders. The situation is real, it's sad, and nothing is being done about it except for what the few security companies or private individuals who have organised themselves into groups are already doing. I got the feeling that the police was one of the bigger obstacles in the way of getting these companies and groups to make a difference, at least from what I was told by many people last month. Yes, in parts of the Western Cape things are still reasonably OK. Mentioning these areas selectively as examples of how things are going all over South Africa is bad science, however. Ask my in-laws. They live in a very picturesque part of the Western Cape and their security concerns are very, very real and has taken a dramatic turn for the worse during the last 18 months or so.

Constant and ongoing human rights abuses? Let's not even go there...

Virtually all our friends, especially those with young kids, are either: 1) already out of South Africa, 2) busy with the process, or 3) thinking about it seriously. This does NOT exclude so-called people of colour. Those with the means and the qualifications are feeling the heat and getting ready to make the move. I have no idea who will be left in South Africa in a year or two's time, especially in the medical, engineering and financial fields. As they leave, they take not only their knowledge and qualifications, but money with them as well. The "brain drain" is very real, make no mistake, as is the "cash drain". I would not be surprised if the South African authorities start to make it even more difficult to move cash out of the country one day very soon. Just like the Zim government did, not that long ago.

Despite all the negativity, there are still good people in South Africa. Some will stay and see the battle through, and I take my hat off to them. If I was an overseas based hunter contemplating a hunt in South Africa, I'd still go for it. Any outfitter worth his salt will do his utmost to secure a safe and enjoyable trip for his clients, and South Africa still has a number of very good outfitters, not to mention some excellent hunting.

2024 is general election time in South Africa. I hope things go smoothly. I really do. But with all the talk of the ruling party standing a chance to lose the election or even coalition rule on the horizon, things may get interesting very quickly. And make no mistake, the likes of Julius Malema, "leader" and "son of the soil" (very appropriate in some twisted form, that one...) that he is, is watching things very intently. Hyenas are good at stealing scraps.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

You see how one sided a story looks when you don't add context? That's two MASS shootings in the USA per day. Is that a fair reflection of the country, no. Does it tell me not to go to certain areas. Yes.

Heading to Cape Town next weekend for a friends reunion. Stay positive everyone. The world's a messed up place and life is too short to harp on about it. Enjoy the ride.

 

[Hunter4752001]

I would not rate the Safety Index as being any sort of indicator of reality. The notes attached to the index show that it is based on a survey of how people feel about safety ie it is nothing but a measure of perceived safety not actual safety.

 

[Doubleplay]

As someone who has lived in Australia for the past year but went back to South Africa for a two-week stay in July, the changes (for the worse) in the country was very much apparent. The water and electricity crises are getting worse and are really, really starting to bite into the South African economy. It has reached the point where you have to start planning your life and your business around when the lights will be on or not, and this is taking a huge toll. Something is going to give in this regard. It's inevitable. I have friends who are dependant upon especially electricity to keep their businesses going. The overall picture is bleak, to say the least.

Something else that's undeniable is how the cost of living has increased dramatically in South Africa. Some of our old and familiar favourites have literally doubled in price in a year's time! Food, even the basics, are expensive in South Africa! I have no idea how the families earning minimum wage and living on or below the breadline keep things going.

Crime and violence. Well, anyone claiming that "it's not so bad" is either in denial or is simply not willing to face the facts. The South African Police, just like most other sectors of the South African government, is for all purposes dysfunctional. Many parts of South Africa have become no-go zones, and this includes stretches of the N1 highway. It's simply no longer safe to travel there alone and at night. Look at what happened to the British surgeon who "took a wrong turn" in Cape Town but a day or so ago. Look at the farm murders. The situation is real, it's sad, and nothing is being done about it except for what the few security companies or private individuals who have organised themselves into groups are already doing. I got the feeling that the police was one of the bigger obstacles in the way of getting these companies and groups to make a difference, at least from what I was told by many people last month. Yes, in parts of the Western Cape things are still reasonably OK. Mentioning these areas selectively as examples of how things are going all over South Africa is bad science, however. Ask my in-laws. They live in a very picturesque part of the Western Cape and their security concerns are very, very real and has taken a dramatic turn for the worse during the last 18 months or so.

Constant and ongoing human rights abuses? Let's not even go there...

Virtually all our friends, especially those with young kids, are either: 1) already out of South Africa, 2) busy with the process, or 3) thinking about it seriously. This does NOT exclude so-called people of colour. Those with the means and the qualifications are feeling the heat and getting ready to make the move. I have no idea who will be left in South Africa in a year or two's time, especially in the medical, engineering and financial fields. As they leave, they take not only their knowledge and qualifications, but money with them as well. The "brain drain" is very real, make no mistake, as is the "cash drain". I would not be surprised if the South African authorities start to make it even more difficult to move cash out of the country one day very soon. Just like the Zim government did, not that long ago.

Despite all the negativity, there are still good people in South Africa. Some will stay and see the battle through, and I take my hat off to them. If I was an overseas based hunter contemplating a hunt in South Africa, I'd still go for it. Any outfitter worth his salt will do his utmost to secure a safe and enjoyable trip for his clients, and South Africa still has a number of very good outfitters, not to mention some excellent hunting.

2024 is general election time in South Africa. I hope things go smoothly. I really do. But with all the talk of the ruling party standing a chance to lose the election or even coalition rule on the horizon, things may get interesting very quickly. And make no mistake, the likes of Julius Malema, "leader" and "son of the soil" (very appropriate in some twisted form, that one...) that he is, is watching things very intently. Hyenas are good at stealing scraps.

Very well said. I would suggest everyone to read this twice.
I also have family in living in Pretoria behind electric fences and 24/7 armed security and facts on the ground are undeniable.
No one is telling anyone not to go there for hunting. I would actually encourage people to do so because it's amazing but facts are facts.
Unfortunately some are still trying to compare SA to US which tells me they're either deniers or have no clue.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Very well said. I would suggest everyone to read this twice.
I also have family in living in Pretoria behind electric fences and 24/7 armed security and facts on the ground are undeniable.
No one is telling anyone not to go there for hunting. I would actually encourage people to do so because it's amazing but facts are facts.
Unfortunately some are still trying to compare SA to US which tells me they're either deniers or have no clue.

Guess I will need to move my hunting area out of Pretoria.

 

[Doubleplay]

Guess I will need to move my hunting area out of Pretoria.

Who said hunting areas are unsafe? I specifically said I encourage people to go and hunt in SA.
Read my post once again.
I'm not your average hunter or tourist whom you pick up from airport and drop back without even coming into contact with real life in SA or even experiencing any of the problems mentioned.
I was there for a month driving a rental car by myself, staying with my son who lives there and talking with locals including game farm operators. Get real and read the JvW's post posted above.

 

[mdwest]

I’d venture a guess that many that frequent AH are far from typical hunters or tourists… I personally know several here that spend significant amounts of time each year in Southern Africa and have done so for decades… I’ve shared meals and beers with more than a few in just the last 12 months…

We’ve also got dozens of frequent users that are SA citizens (not just outfitters) that live all over the country… Everywhere from Gauteng to the KZN to Limpopo to the NW province to the Eastern Cape…

We’ve also got a handful of guys (myself included) that have spent anywhere from several months to years at a time living and working not only in South Africa, but most of the neighboring countries… and have done so for decades…

And then there is also an active group of people here with current business interests (other than hunting) in South Africa (myself included).., as well as people actively involved in NGO and non profit activities in South Africa (myself included)…

There are a lot of guys here with far more knowledge and understanding of what is or isn’t real in South Africa than I think is realized..

As said previously… I think we all likely agree on most of what’s being debated far more than we disagree… there are some differences in vantage points and minutiae… but no one has argued that any part of South Africa is all leprechauns riding rose scented unicorns over rainbows made of love and joy… I think we all recognize it’s very clear and obvious problems…

The debatable point is how bad it really is or isn’t… and that’s largely going to be a matter of perspective and opinion..

 

[Paul Raley]

Reading all the above posts and comments I think most people feel the same about violent crime and corruption , and most people seem to be on the "same page " regarding the issues our countries are facing . Where there are some differences of opinion seems to be where some of us do not really know or understand the true facts of a country . I cannot comment on what the real situation is in the USA for example as I do not live there and have never had the pleasure of even visiting , so for me to try and comment on their crime issues would be irresponsible and only based on my perceptions , so it is interesting and educational for me to hear what the facts are from those of you that live there .
What is true of many countries is there are areas that are relatively safe and there are areas that are high crime rate areas . Where possible one must determine the true facts and then those facts must be assessed in context of the local environment . SA has for sure deteriorated from being the most advanced and wealthiest country in Sub Saharan Africa( Maybe the whole of Africa - I am not sure ) pre - 1994 to being a true typical African "developing country " ( Banana Republic ) that we are today , but that being said we still have a lot of good things going on . If one can dodge the criminals and the failing state structures we still have a good tourism and hunting industry , great food , lots of friendly people of all races , beautiful nature and of course favourable exchange rates for overseas vistors . But the reality is even all the good stuff is being eroded and attacked , for example the Kruger National Park , once considered as one of the most beautiful and best managed game reserves in the world is being mismanaged to destruction ( the same applies to most of our state run reserves with poaching and corruption being a huge problem ) . Another interesting phenomenon that exists is that the majority of people do not take the situation seriously or are just blissfully unaware of the dangers around them , they only wake up once they become directly affected by violent crime or some form of life threatening incident , I suspect this is human nature and will be the same all over the world .
Just as a last comment I believe it is unfair to try and directly compare the crime and security situations of countries as there are so many potential variables that can have an impact and one would not be able really compare " apples with apples " but one statistic that may give a certain perspective is the murder rate per capita of a country , just for interest sakes the murder rate of the USA is given as 4,96 per capita and that of SA is 36 per capita . One must also take into consideration that we have a much smaller population and a much smaller country so the impact experienced as well as the perception of crime will have a larger impact on our citizens in general .
We all have our challenges and we just have to manage them if we want to survive .
To those of you that have already visited SA to hunt or to have a holiday please carry on visiting and to those of your that have not yet visited please make the effort to do so , I am sure you will throughly enjoy your time here .