New twist, SCI is the problem

[gvincent]

The odds of an ethical hunter convincing a rabid anti-hunter to accept sustainable hunting are slim and none and slim left town yesterday. Our efforts should be focused on the non-hunters (see LivingTheDream's comments above) who are interested in learning more about sustainable hunting and it's role in wildlife conservation. Among non-hunters, the major issue and/or concern (IMO) is that hunters waste the resulting meat. Once non-hunters understand that the wild game is processed and consumed, they tend to be more understanding and accepting. A couple of months ago, I read a comment by renown hunter and conservationist Ivan Carter "Engaging a person protesting is usually futile - particularly in that scenario - that said i commend the effort - the most important thing is to be polite and respectful - we are always judged by our lowest moment or individual." When I find myself debating (especially on social media) an anti-hunter, I always remember Ivan's words: "The most important thing is to be polite and respectful. We are always judged by our lowest moment or individual". Sometimes, we get into a "them vs. us" mentality, but please remember that many non-hunters access the various social media in an effort to obtain a better understanding of ethical and sustainable hunting. Cheers and please carry on.

 

[enysse]

Respectfully, a lot of non hunters accept meat hunting but they will never accept lion, leopard, rhino or elephant hunting and most days zebra or giraffes either. I mean NEVER! Not in a million years!

 

[ThomasBeaham]

Boy ain't that the truth Eric. Ask me how I know...

It was a real rude awakening for me to be attacked by other hunters.

 

[siml]

Enysse, all the elephant pics I post are always shown in a respectful way, doesn't bother the average person, yes I do take flack from the radical fanatics.......but a lot less than a pic of a hunter with a whitetail or springbuck with blood all over and a beer in his hand...

 

[enysse]

There is hardly any and I mean any medical professional that condones it. And just using my assessment skills, like asking what do think of an elephant hunt and the anxiety and panic sets in right away. Seriously, you guys are blind to how bad the problem is in the USA.

I ask other questions too but there is no positive replies. They should be protected.

 

[gvincent]

Respectfully, a lot of non hunters accept meat hunting but they will never accept lion, leopard, rhino or elephant hunting and most days zebra or giraffes either. I mean NEVER! Not in a million years!

Hmm? With very few exceptions, my experience has been somewhat different. But then again, during my stay at various safari camps within Zimbabwe, I have always managed (with hyena and baboon being the only exceptions) to convince the camp manager to cook the lion, leopard, buffalo, croc, zebra, giraffe, and other game harvested by me and the other hunters in camp. I advise the non-hunters that the camp staff collected the choice cuts for the clients to enjoy and that the remaining meat was distributed to the camp staff and/or nearby villagers. The non-hunter's typical response: "What does elephant taste like?" Unfortunately, the words "trophy hunter" suggests (in the minds of many non-hunters) that the hunter shoots the animal, removes it's head, leaves the carcass to either rot or be consumed by scavengers, and displays his "trophy" in his man cave.

 

[siml]

Eric, I can understand your situation, but surely these intelligent medical professionals must realize money doesn't grow on trees in Africa, we need the income to run these areas. I have had my quota of 3 elephant taken away because of foreign intervention. I am going have to shoot 100% of my other quota to even come close to making budget, realistic we might hunt 50%. Are they going to pay for all the anti poaching units? We need to stand up for all ethical hunting, no matter the species.

 

[enysse]

Most people view me as a non hunter, so I think they give me honest responses. I ask about Cecil the lion and what they think? I ask more questions but ultimately I ask in polite way if they condone lion, leopard and elephant hunting. Most answer, "aren't they endangered." "No way they can be hunted."

 

[enysse]

TMS, it is not their problem. The people of Africa have to take care of their own places. Money never comes to their mind. Non-hunters by and large think wildlife needs no money to survive, whether its in Africa or USA. It never occurs to them that wildlife needs management.

Deer run around Milwaukee at night all the time, people think wildlife populations are managed by Mother Nature.

 

[gvincent]

Perhaps my observations are somewhat skewed since most of my acquaintances, friends, and family members are from either Texas or Louisiana.

 

[siml]

Then the USA and other countries should stop sending tons and tons and tons of food and medical aid to AFRICA!! CITIES allocates permits for elephant, but no USFW know better.

 

[gvincent]

A couple of months ago, I was at a nearby Walgreens printing out a few photos. The lady working the photo section advised another customer that I was a hunter and that I had hunted Africa on several occasions. Well, the customer, a rather large, middle aged, gravity challenged lady, looked at the photo of my elephant and proceeded to puff up like a huge Egyptian spiting cobra. My entire life flashed before my eyes! I slowly and cautiously handed her the elephant photo and began to describe how we carved up the elephant, loaded it upon a trailer, and then delivered the carcass to a nearby village. I went on to describe how the women and children grabbed the nearest pots and/or pans and proceeded to run in our direction as we approached their village. I explained how nothing goes to waste in rural Africa including the stomach, intestines, heart, lungs, bladder, kidneys, spleen, liver, etc. She slowly smiled, gave me a big hug, and advised me that it was time for her to visit her motherland (i.e. - Africa). Upon parting, she said "God bless you!". Cheers and please carry on.

 

[enysse]

There are a lot of people that think Africa should be managed like the USA, but I tell them they need a history lesson on Africa before they make that statement.

And I agree with our foreign friends on AH, the USA should let other countries manage their own problems. We have enough of our own. Heck we don't even understand CITES?

 

[LivingTheDream]

The rabid anti isn't going to change. But for the most part people don't like hunting because they don't understand it and as long as we take the time and explain it, explain the use of the meat, and how it helps both people and animals. Very few people are going to say you are a bad person. I can tell you, in my experience, most non hunter don't care if it is a Lion or a deer you just have to explain it. I have had more "hunters" question why I wanted to go shoot a Lion.

I am not even going to get started on USFW and CITES. Apparently Lion populations and sub species are determined behind a desk and not on the ground.

 

[rookhawk]

As a SCI member and measurer, plus as being a conservative avid hunter, I think SCI is becoming the problem.

1.) support for estate hunting and high fence hunting is going to put us on the wrong side of history. Not condemning those that do such hunting, just concerned about blurring that line and its consequences. Everyone wants their hunting validated and SCI equalizes and validates all harvests feeding the industry that will lead us to legitimized canned hunts eventually.

2.) they suspended the dentist without evidence instead of saying everyone should wait and see. They were the great ally of anti hunters in that decision

Just one man's opinion.

 

[wesheltonj]

As a SCI member and measurer, plus as being a conservative avid hunter, I think SCI is becoming the problem.

1.) support for estate hunting and high fence hunting is going to put us on the wrong side of history. Not condemning those that do such hunting, just concerned about blurring that line and its consequences. Everyone wants their hunting validated and SCI equalizes and validates all harvests feeding the industry that will lead us to legitimized canned hunts eventually.

2.) they suspended the dentist without evidence instead of saying everyone should wait and see. They were the great ally of anti hunters in that decision

Just one man's opinion.

I have no problem with high fence hunting, it just should not be in the record books as a "record" animal. I have no problem with the record of the measurement, I do with giving an "medal" for an animal that will never get that large without the benefit of the fence.

And I agree about Dr. Palmer, SCI should have had the balls and stood up and said this is the USA, everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty, if Dr. Palmer is charge we will suspend him and if found guilty will remove him from membership and strip him of this records. But they did not do that, they took the weak way out.

 

[Pheroze]

There are a lot of people that think Africa should be managed like the USA, but I tell them they need a history lesson on Africa before they make that statement...

I guarantee you that if a herd of elephants was stomping through suburban Connecticut there would be very little complaint about a cull. The biggest problem is that African governments allow the world to believe they don't know what they are doing when they set quotas.

 

[AB2506]

Well that was a drive- by assassination of SCI! Accusations with no follow up or substantiation. I'm not sure who would publish such a piece of drivel in a legitimate publication. It is not journalism IMO.

I am helping to try to keep our local SCI chapter alive. ( long story I won't get into here)

That said, SCI is not without warts: IMO they mishandled the Cecil situation; too much emphasis on awards and acheivements ( I personally do not hunt for notoriety or self aggrandizement); too much emphasis on estate hunts (who cares if you have a pocketbook that can afford a large estate elk or whatever, this is a top three reason why hunters do not join SCI in Alberta); it is perceived as a rich man's club ( not true, but that is the perception, perhaps kept alive by the persons who strive for all of the "acheivements").

So you ask, why am I volunteering for SCI if I have problems with the above?

Hunting is in severe danger of being banned in a very short period of time if hunters do not unite. Name one other hunting organization that can work both locally and internationally? And don't say DSC, they have ZERO presence here in Canada.

So SCI it is. Get on board people, join your local chapter and get involved or your hunting will be a thing of the past within 10 years IMO.

 

[rookhawk]

I hear you and I see SCI as necessary. That being said, we 100% agree that it is a wart-laden enterprise.

I'd suggest SCI buy Roland Ward and merge all records. I'd then suggest SCI no longer have an "SCI record book" and definitely no awards whatsoever. The record book should be about the animal, not the hunter and it should be biology driven without the SCI name all over it like one bad infomercial.

SCI should be a lobbying organization for hunting rights in the same way NRA is for gun ownership. SCI should lose the "millionaires club" appearance and stop leading with record book nonsense in their PR. The way they represent themselves and us in turn is troubling. I think the way SCI behaves it is unlikely they would have more than a handful of liberals, communists, socialists, greens or democrats in their fraternity which I find to be a shame because we need UNITY for the preservation of hunting rights. The NRA does a far better job of being non-partisan than SCI. (e.g. NRA supported Harry Reid for a period of time because he indeed was a Nevada pro-gun senator even though not a republican)

Just the ramblings of a guy that appreciates what SCI should be but is disappointed with what the SCI actually is.

 

[ThomasBeaham]

The problem with your comparison between the NRA and SCI is there is no comparison.

It's apples and oranges.

Speaking strictly as a citizen of the United States (apologies to our members from other countries. It is not my intention to be the myopic American) because SCI and the NRA are based here.

Wherein we do in fact have a God given right in the Second amendment.

Americans have no hunting "rights". Yes, certain States of the Union have hunting rights for their citizens written into their State constitutions, but, "We the People" have no such right.

I do not believe there is a country in Africa where a foreign national has the "Right" to hunt.

What we do have, for the time being at least, is the privilege, and IF we intend to hang on to that privilege, we as a group
had best start working together.