New bow hunter

[davidhein]

I hunt with Rage. Have shot kudu, warthog, busbuck, impala and wildebeest with the Rage. The most important will be to have suffienct Kinetic energy to open the blades and still drive it through to the vitals.
The G5's are great! I like the T3, as well as the striker. The other broadhead I've used with great success is the meat seeker (3 blade, 2" cut).

For me its about finding a broadhead I trust and sticking with it - and for me its the Rage.
Almost any broadhead you get today will do the job suffiently.

PS. When it comes to broadheads you'll get many varied opinions...

 

[Pardus]

That is my problem is the different opinoins and read that on the fixed blade you must ajust your sight and with mechanicals you don't need to??
My friend uses Meat seekers.
How do you know what the bows kenetic energy is?
Does the pound strenght make a difference on the speed and energy on the target or is it just the pull you feel comfortable with?

 

[Norwegianwoods]

If your bow is properly tuned, your fixed broad heads will hit the same spot as your mechanicals and field points.
If your bow is not properly tuned, then mechanicals will hit closer to or in the same spot as your field points.

Different bows have different IBO speeds. And the IBO speed for your bow should be in the papers from the maker.
The poundage and length of your draw then decides how much energy you transfer to the arrow.
Then it depends on how heavy that arrow is.
All this decides how much speed, kinetic energy and momentum the arrow will have when it leaves your bow.

Archery Calculators-Calculate Arrow Speed, Kinectic Energy,Front of Center %
This is not totally accurate, but gives you a good indication of the speed you will get.

Calculators – Archery Report: news views and reviews
This tells you what Kinetic Energy and momentum you get.

mudslinger, I stand corrected
The Rage has a 2" cutting diameter and the GrizzTrick2 has a 1 1/4"x2 cutting diameter.
I am not sure what is best of 2"x1 or 1 1/4"x2, but I know I prefer a fixed broad head on bigger animals as I said earlier

I have 89.973 Kinetic Energy and 0.6921 Momentum, so it should be plenty for using Rage on Kudu, Wildebeest and similar sized animals.
But I am a person that always plan for worst case scenarios, so I expect to hit bones. Specially because I prefer to put the arrow very close to the shoulder.
I also prefer to have a exit hole for increased chance to get blood on the ground for tracking.
So I use a strong all steel fixed broad head with 1 1/8"x2 cutting diameter.
If I had been shooting a bow with less than 60 lbs DW, I would either use a similar head with 1"x2 cutting diameter or a Silver Flame from German Kinetics.

PS. I really think that the new Rage with the chisel tip looks very promising, but I wish they could make it all steel and use a bit ticker and stronger blades.
Another mechanical with a large cut that I think looks promising is the NAP Killzone.

If you want a really big hole, you can always use the new Slayer Trauma 3 Blade Broadhead 150gr, but you better have the bow for it

 

[Diamondhitch]

That is my problem is the different opinoins and read that on the fixed blade you must ajust your sight and with mechanicals you don't need to?

Norwegianwoods hit the nail on the head here. The "lost" art of tuning your bow. As much as we are inclined to live in a disposable, ready out of the box world, there are some things that simply cannot be that way, bows are one of them. Your pro shop can set your bow up for you well enough gto get it shooting but it is up to you to do the fine tuning and get the most out of your setup, a 50lb bow that is well tuned is a better choice and could out penetrate a poorly tuned 70lb bow.

Paper tuning is a great way to fine tune feild point groups and is a great way to do the COARSE tuning for broadheads. Every bow has different nock travel and as such the ideal paper tear can vary bow to bow. For example in my Mathews Z-Max the nock point is rising as the arrow is released and as such I find that a 1/4" tail high tear at 10' stabilizes my arrow best, many other bows will require a perfectly concentric tear. Arrow spine can influence this as well and cause slight deviations in the "perfect tear" for your setup.

Once paper tuned a broadhead setup must be FINE tuned at the range, this is because the broadhead will cause the arrow to plane off course far more easily than a feild point tipped arrow. To do this you must shoot a group with your broadheads, preferably at as long range as you are proficient, then follow this group with one using feild points. You will most likely find a difference in the point of impact (POI). Adjust your rest/nock until both groups hit the same spot, some trial and error will be required here. Do not worry about where the group is in relation to your aim point until both groups hit the same spot then adjust your sight accordingly. Confirm your groups at several different ranges. Now you will likely notice 2 things, #1 your arrows should all group together, #2 your groups should have tightened up a bit, especially your broadhead groups.

Issues that will affect this:
1) Inconsistant form - If your bow is torqued differently and your form is not consistant tuning of any sort will be futile, practice (in all positions) is the only cure.
2) Arrow spine - Incorrectly spined arrows will be difficult if not impossible to tune. As a rule an arrow is better off spined slightly heavy if you fall between spine sizes (near the weak end). When shooting broadheads, I always choose the next size heavier if I fall in the bottom half of the rated spine.
3) Broadhead allignment - I have not had an issue with this and find that my broadheads are already aligned with the shaft if proper arrow construction procedures are followed but check them anyway and correct any misallignments.
4) Insuficient helical on your fletches - Straight vanes or slightly helical vanes have no place with broadheads. Use a good degree of helical to cause a bit of drag on the rear of the arrow to stabilize it and counter the planing tendencies of the broadhead.

Why does this matter and why not just adjust your sights to your broadheads POI? A properly tuned arrow is one that is flying STRAIGHT as soon as possible after leaving the bow, a bow exerts great stress on an arrow shaft at the moment of the shot and flexes it greatly, by tuning we are essentially minimizing this and ulilizing the bows energy more efficiently to propel the arrow instead of wasting it with non-essential flexing of the shaft. Once a tuned shaft is a short distance from the bow it will fly, well... straight as an arrow so to speak (no porpoising or wagging). This means that when the arrow strikes its intended target (animal) the energy from the arrow will by exerted on the tip of the arrow resulting in the arrow penetrating straight into the animal and maximizing energy and penatration. An arrow that hits its target while still oscilating, even slightly, will apply its force at an angle to the axis of the arrow thereby wasting energy, this energy is used up in flexing the arrow and trying to drive the broadhead in at a slight angle to the blades instead of straight along the cutting surface.

Tuning and good shooting form are just as important as draw weight when it comes to penetartion (with any style of broadhead).

 

[mudslinger]

Woods, Daimondhitch, great posts, agree 100% on almost everything. The only thing I really do not do is paper tune. I will walk back tune and then broadhead tune and usually get everything to hit the same. Of course I have done my own tuning as well as others when I had my shop and with the tools I have I can generally get everything close to level and right on center shot. I have had paper tune give me some false results especially with form breaks or bad form on some shooters. I do not think as both of you do that people spend enough time on tuning their equipment. This is where mechanicals can hinder penetration more than fixed or COC because they will anyway with their design and they do not need anymore hinderance from a poorly flying arrow.

 

[Stretch]

Norwegianwoods hit the nail on the head here. The "lost" art of tuning your bow. As much as we are inclined to live in a disposable, ready out of the box world, there are some things that simply cannot be that way, bows are one of them. Your pro shop can set your bow up for you well enough gto get it shooting but it is up to you to do the fine tuning and get the most out of your setup, a 50lb bow that is well tuned is a better choice and could out penetrate a poorly tuned 70lb bow.

Paper tuning is a great way to fine tune feild point groups and is a great way to do the COARSE tuning for broadheads. Every bow has different nock travel and as such the ideal paper tear can vary bow to bow. For example in my Mathews Z-Max the nock point is rising as the arrow is released and as such I find that a 1/4" tail high tear at 10' stabilizes my arrow best, many other bows will require a perfectly concentric tear. Arrow spine can influence this as well and cause slight deviations in the "perfect tear" for your setup.

Once paper tuned a broadhead setup must be FINE tuned at the range, this is because the broadhead will cause the arrow to plane off course far more easily than a feild point tipped arrow. To do this you must shoot a group with your broadheads, preferably at as long range as you are proficient, then follow this group with one using feild points. You will most likely find a difference in the point of impact (POI). Adjust your rest/nock until both groups hit the same spot, some trial and error will be required here. Do not worry about where the group is in relation to your aim point until both groups hit the same spot then adjust your sight accordingly. Confirm your groups at several different ranges. Now you will likely notice 2 things, #1 your arrows should all group together, #2 your groups should have tightened up a bit, especially your broadhead groups.

Issues that will affect this:
1) Inconsistant form - If your bow is torqued differently and your form is not consistant tuning of any sort will be futile, practice (in all positions) is the only cure.
2) Arrow spine - Incorrectly spined arrows will be difficult if not impossible to tune. As a rule an arrow is better off spined slightly heavy if you fall between spine sizes (near the weak end). When shooting broadheads, I always choose the next size heavier if I fall in the bottom half of the rated spine.
3) Broadhead allignment - I have not had an issue with this and find that my broadheads are already aligned with the shaft if proper arrow construction procedures are followed but check them anyway and correct any misallignments.
4) Insuficient helical on your fletches - Straight vanes or slightly helical vanes have no place with broadheads. Use a good degree of helical to cause a bit of drag on the rear of the arrow to stabilize it and counter the planing tendencies of the broadhead.

Why does this matter and why not just adjust your sights to your broadheads POI? A properly tuned arrow is one that is flying STRAIGHT as soon as possible after leaving the bow, a bow exerts great stress on an arrow shaft at the moment of the shot and flexes it greatly, by tuning we are essentially minimizing this and ulilizing the bows energy more efficiently to propel the arrow instead of wasting it with non-essential flexing of the shaft. Once a tuned shaft is a short distance from the bow it will fly, well... straight as an arrow so to speak (no porpoising or wagging). This means that when the arrow strikes its intended target (animal) the energy from the arrow will by exerted on the tip of the arrow resulting in the arrow penetrating straight into the animal and maximizing energy and penatration. An arrow that hits its target while still oscilating, even slightly, will apply its force at an angle to the axis of the arrow thereby wasting energy, this energy is used up in flexing the arrow and trying to drive the broadhead in at a slight angle to the blades instead of straight along the cutting surface.

Tuning and good shooting form are just as important as draw weight when it comes to penetartion (with any style of broadhead).

I emphatically concur. Being an avid archer for 40 years now I would take this advice to the bank. Tuning it of utmost importance if you want proper broadhead flight.

 

[Diamondhitch]

Woods, Daimondhitch, great posts, agree 100% on almost everything. The only thing I really do not do is paper tune. I will walk back tune and then broadhead tune and usually get everything to hit the same. Of course I have done my own tuning as well as others when I had my shop and with the tools I have I can generally get everything close to level and right on center shot. I have had paper tune give me some false results especially with form breaks or bad form on some shooters. I do not think as both of you do that people spend enough time on tuning their equipment. This is where mechanicals can hinder penetration more than fixed or COC because they will anyway with their design and they do not need anymore hinderance from a poorly flying arrow.

Mudslinger, I actually agree about paper tuning which is why I only include it as a first step. the problem with paper tuning comes when we tune for 1 specific distance and do not check others. If we are true at 10' we may have simply caught the arrow as it oscilated through center, 2 feet further can prove that we still have more work to do. This is why I only use it to get me in the ballpark, broadheads are a far better indication of tune.

You and Stretch hit the nail on the head as far as expandables as well IMO. They are not prone to plane like a broadhead and as such fly to the same POI as a feild point but they can do it while oscilating and that definitely sucks up energy on impact. The closer we can get the arrow to true flight the more energy we will pass down the center of the shaft where it belongs, working for us instead of against any sideways forces being exerted on the arrow.

 

[davidhein]

Although I shoot mechs, I still tune my bow to perfection. My flight may be on point with the mech, but if not properly tuned penetrating ability will downgrade itself heavily!

I really believe tuning is the number one priority above the actual choice of broadhead.

 

[Wolverine67]

Great posts from everybody, Diamondhitch. your post are one of the best explainations on this theme I have ever seen.
I struggled a lot with my BH tuning, untill I realized I was in the borderland, regarding spine. Bought some stiffer and heavier arrow shafts, fletched them helical with 4" duravanes, a little adjustsment and voila...perfectly tuned broadheads.
Have to add that I shoot Silverflames, love them, but they can be hard to tune.

 

[Diamondhitch]

Thanks. I thought it would be alot more explanatory than the way I first heard it explained. Quote "It would be way easier to cram a broomstick up your a$$ lengthways than sideways" LOL