My Studio VS African Studio A Match Up... COSTS

[robertq]

Hi Dennis,

We commend you for being in business for 35 years and we've seen some of your work--it is pure quality!

Regulations change over night. The only way people are notified is mostly by SCI notices. We, on the other hand, are behind those notices that include work with all the agencies including our USFWL attorneys on staff. We know what will be published before it is even published. Why? Because this is our passion and it is our business to know first and foremost, and then as a hunter, to be involved and knowledgeable.

Let me share a little something with you to reflect on the fact that it is not only about the permits. The permits can read whatever they want and on the surface can be correct, however, what happens in the case that came to us after the seizure of an impala while under the care of Coppersmith? The hunt took place in RSA only and the permits from RSA all read impala but when USFWL did their inspection, they insisted it was a black faced impala since it had a darker face and it was seized it for incorrect permits. Coppersmith should have known that there is no black faced impala species from RSA and could have avoided the seizure. The black faced impala is only found in NW Nambia, SW Angola and Kaokoland. So the moral of the story is: know your business or it's lost.

Best,
Robert

 

[PARA45]

After experiencing the nightmare no one want to dream of with their trophies, I will probably never do another trophy in Africa. Dennis comment "You get my quality, My workmanship You have me on US soil if anything should go wrong." the key here is that he is here in the US, and if anything goes wrong, you have someone to talk to, not someone who is in another continent and his solution to your problem is to ship the trophies with piss poor quality work back to him (on your dime) so he can fix it. REALLY????? They know they have you, and there is only so much you can do from here, Europe or anywhere else. SSI, Inc is who cleared my crate here, and they filed a complain in SA (I don't know with whom), and it didn't get anywhere. I am not saying that all SA taxidermist are bad, but the one I worked with flat out SUCKED, and was the one the outfitter highly recommended!

 

[harden]

Understand Bob, I don't deal with a company per say. I deal with people inside those companies that are dedicated also to keeping up on knowledge, Just like in my business, you can take it to so and so taxidermy, but who's really mounting your trophy. As the same in your business, it's the person and their knowledge and desire to be knowledgeable about their job that you deal with. Not every employee of every business is just as qualified as the rest. They , the business , may try but it's personal drive to excel that makes everyone and their level of dedication, that makes everyone rise to different levels within their field.

 

[billc]

So your saying you know in all of SA there is no black face impala. Bold statement with the way animals get bought and sold over there. Maybe there is laws on the books about black face impala being in SA I have no idea.

I guess once again it comes down to what a customers needs. I guess if you do not trust your outfitter or your taxidermist then maybe you need someone to make sure they are doing there job. I myself just work with who I picked for each job and have great luck doing it that way. This could be just me but paying 350 instead of 995 plus all the extras is enough of a saving for me to do some of the work myself. I guess I am just a different kind of client though.

I am all for each client picking what ever service he feels he needs. Not much in to tricks or scare tactics to try and help sell something to anyone. If your service is good you will always have clients and I am happy you all do. I don't begrudge anyone from making a living just kind of gets old hearing how everyone else's services are not as good when a client is saying he is happy with his choice.

 

[robertq]

After experiencing the nightmare no one want to dream of with their trophies, I will probably never do another trophy in Africa. Dennis comment "You get my quality, My workmanship You have me on US soil if anything should go wrong." the key here is that he is here in the US, and if anything goes wrong, you have someone to talk to, not someone who is in another continent and his solution to your problem is to ship the trophies with piss poor quality work back to him (on your dime) so he can fix it. REALLY????? They know they have you, and there is only so much you can do from here, Europe or anywhere else. SSI, Inc is who cleared my crate here, and they filed a complain in SA (I don't know with whom), and it didn't get anywhere. I am not saying that all SA taxidermist are bad, but the one I worked with flat out SUCKED, and was the one the outfitter highly recommended!

Para,

I believe you started a thread about your damaged kudu called: REPORT: My Bad experience with Highveld Taxidermists/Oxi Logistics.

Highveld used their own shipping company, Oxi, who only insures shipments to the port of arrival and when they would not produce a copy of the insurance certificate, we put a claim into FAIS OMBUD in RSA for you, which you were copied on, but resulted in the exoneration of the shipping company. No surprise there but we fought for you anyway.

Then, when that didn't work, Rosella personally called Mr. Estes from Estes Transportation and after 3 months of hard follow up, she got them to refund you $2400 which is unheard of by a transportation company under their federal regulations for coverage of $42.

The point here is that we do what we say and say what we do. I trust all is well.

Best,
Robert

 

[robertq]

So your saying you know in all of SA there is no black face impala. Bold statement with the way animals get bought and sold over there. Maybe there is laws on the books about black face impala being in SA I have no idea.

I guess once again it comes down to what a customers needs. I guess if you do not trust your outfitter or your taxidermist then maybe you need someone to make sure they are doing there job. I myself just work with who I picked for each job and have great luck doing it that way. This could be just me but paying 350 instead of 995 plus all the extras is enough of a saving for me to do some of the work myself. I guess I am just a different kind of client though.

I am all for each client picking what ever service he feels he needs. Not much in to tricks or scare tactics to try and help sell something to anyone. If your service is good you will always have clients and I am happy you all do. I don't begrudge anyone from making a living just kind of gets old hearing how everyone else's services are not as good when a client is saying he is happy with his choice.

Bill,

Why would you say I am making a bold statement? It's a fact. Do the research yourself.

The point you don't get is that this service it is NOT about NOT trusting your outfitter or taxidermist and it never was. So where are you going with this? What is your outfitter or taxidermist gonna do when you trophies arrive here incorrect with items missing or incorrect paperwork. Trust has nothing to do with with this.

Clients are only happy until something goes wrong.

Best,
Robert

 

[johnnyblues]

I have scoured the web for the past 2 years looking at taxidermy

You might just save some money getting your finished taxidermy done in Africa or by your buddy that lives close by who's pretty good on local deer.....but

I have yet to see a picture of any African taxidermy that comes close to the work of Dennis

I agree Dennis does some fine work. I have used Wes Goode for a number of years now. They were called wildlife studios but have recently changed their name to Kanati. They have my 6 Namibian trophies which are scheduled to arrive to me by months end. Have a look at their web site the work is outstanding.

 

[PARA45]

Robert, you are correct sir, and I am in no way saying anything bad about you guys. Your company and Rosella did an outstanding job fighting for me, and I appreciated it very much. My point here is not the damage that was made in-transit to my trophies, but the piss poor job they did, and the joke to their solution. Here is the example of their piss poor stitching job:

You guys tell me if this is worth $650????? Now, I've paid, I am in the US, and there is nothing I can do to fix these trophies besides paying someone to do them right with one of their capes. Or ship them back to SA on my dime so Highveld Taxidermist could fix them.....this by the way was their way of helping out.

 

[Scott Slough]

Dennis,

I appreciate the effort that this post/thread took and your tireless sharing of information about taxidermy in general. I started writing this report over the weekend, but needed to get to the office to get all of my exact numbers before posting.

My conclusion will ultimately be that I saved several thousand dollars and as much as a year by doing my taxidermy the way that I did. I offer this report as information to others who are interested in how I believe that I was able to save that money and not as an attack of you. I believe that you started this thread to inform others and I respond in that same vein. I had to put in some work to get the positive outcome that I had and AH was a significant source of knowledge that gave me the confidence to make the decision that I made.

I would NEVER argue YOUR quality vs. the South African taxidermist that I used … I got what I paid for and I was happy with that result. I marvel at the quality of the work that you post of AH … you are either a HELL of a taxidermist … a HELL of a photographer or both! I think your quality … at a price … is a valid argument and one that you should be VERY proud to make.

I had my taxidermy done at ReLive Taxidermy in Port Elizabeth and it was shipped by Rex Freight and I cleared the trophies myself in Houston, TX. My prices were off ReLive’s 2015 pricelist, so I compared with your posted 2015 pricelist.

My total costs for 4 trophies on my wall in 6 months and 1 day from the end of my safari were $4685 plus half a tank of gas and a few headaches dealing with Air Forward (a trucking company that trucked my trophies from New York to Houston – confused the HELL out of me why the “plane” was traveling so slow on their tracking software J!). Costs breakdown was Bushbuck shoulder mount $435, Nyala wall pedestal $650, two kudu wall pedestals at $840 each, $1250 in Freight, $300 for US Customs clearance, and $50 in storage fees.

When I work off your 2015 price list, Bushbuck shoulder mount $695, Nyala wall pedestal ($925 + 30%) $1200, two kudu wall pedestals ($1575 + 30%) $2050 each,$ 4100 for a taxidermy only price of $5995 which is more than $1000 more than I paid all in on the wall at my house. And that does not include Dip and Pack costs, shipping costs of raw trophies to you, shipping costs to you tannery, shipping costs of finished products to Texas, and clearing trophies upon arrival in US.

I don’t see how a US-based taxidermist can EVER be competitive on COSTS for taxidermy from South Africa for ME for two main reasons … 1) Advertised price per animal averages more than 50% more per animal than the advertised price at the taxidermist that I used … it is hard to make up that difference on volume! 2) There are three significant “dead” costs (costs that are NOT included if you have the taxidermy done in South Africa and you clear the trophies yourself); dip and pack, clearing of the trophies, and shipping costs to me once the taxidermy is complete.

 

[tedthorn]

I think the additional 30% for the wall pedistal is a major tripping stone for just about anyone including myself

 

[robertq]

Robert, you are correct sir, and I am in no way saying anything bad about you guys. Your company and Rosella did an outstanding job fighting for me, and I appreciated it very much. My point here is not the damage that was made in-transit to my trophies, but the piss poor job they did, and the joke to their solution. Here is the example of their piss poor stitching job:

View attachment 155112

You guys tell me if this is worth $650????? Now, I've paid, I am in the US, and there is nothing I can do to fix these trophies besides paying someone to do them right with one of their capes. Or ship them back to SA on my dime so Highveld Taxidermist could fix them.....this by the way was their way of helping out.

Thank you, Para45
We knew this and wanted to let people know we're not like all the rest..... Rosella got the biggest pleasure when she got you the check......Happy hunting

 

[billc]

Bill,

Why would you say I am making a bold statement? It's a fact. Do the research yourself.

The point you don't get is that this service it is NOT about NOT trusting your outfitter or taxidermist and it never was. So where are you going with this? What is your outfitter or taxidermist gonna do when you trophies arrive here incorrect with items missing or incorrect paperwork. Trust has nothing to do with with this.

Clients are only happy until something goes wrong.

Best,
Robert

Because unless you know ever game ranch in SA it is hard to say if there is any black face impala in SA. If there is money to be made I am sure someone in SA has them stocked on a ranch. They can be shipped to other places around the world just not here. Find it hard to believe I could go hunt a tiger but not a blackface impala in SA. Not bringing either home but they could be hunted in SA

Ok what my taxidermist or outfitter would do is fax,overnight or email the right paperwork just like they would need to do for you. Then they would be paying for the cost of there mistakes out of there pocket. So if there is a item missing in the crate you can make it appear out of thin air? I don't worry about what if and this or that. I roll with the punches as they come and work through the problem the best I can.

I had delta lose paperwork on my crate from my first safari and guess what coppersmith worked with f/g and customs to make it right. Animals are hanging in my house now. So once again I am not saying your service is not worth ever penny you charge it is just not for me. I will do some of the work to save some money so I can hunt more. Pretty plain and simple really.

 

[tedthorn]

I agree Dennis does some fine work. I have used Wes Goode for a number of years now. They were called wildlife studios but have recently changed their name to Kanati. They have my 6 Namibian trophies which are scheduled to arrive to me by months end. Have a look at their web site the work is outstanding.

No close ups and the photos are grainy when enlarged but at first glance the look like they are not an African Taxidermist

 

[BRICKBURN]

Because unless you know ever game ranch in SA it is hard to say if there is any black face impala in SA. If there is money to be made I am sure someone in SA has them stocked on a ranch. They can be shipped to other places around the world just not here. Find it hard to believe I could go hunt a tiger but not a blackface impala in SA. Not bringing either home but they could be hunted in SA
............

With reasoning like that Bill
Should I call Homeland security?
I don't know you might have a nuclear bomb in your basement. I can't prove you don't. You never know.


There are some criminals who tried to "smuggle" Zambian Sable across the Limpopo into RSA a while back. Perhaps these are the kind of guys you are talking about. Reputable Outfitters won't be selling Zambian Sable in RSA any time soon.

The Science:
Aepyceros melampus petersi

"Countries in which the the Black-Faced impala, Namibia,Angola is known to occur: Angola, Namibia"
http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/profile/speciesProfile.action?spcode=A01E

BFI can not be imported into the USA and were listed as
Endangered 06/02/1970

BFI are listed as vulnerable and their population is so fragmented the IUCN does not even create a range map for them.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/549/0.

Ultimate Ungulate presents a historic range. Sadly, it includes all species of Impala. The little green patch on the westside of Namibia and Angola is the range for BFI.

​

Namibia, the last stronghold for the species, is not selling them to game ranches in other countries. Why would a conservation minded government give away a scarce natural resource?
The latest MET NAPHA announcements in fact are not supportive of breeding programs like those creating Black Impala.
Don't expect any exports of BFI any time soon. (excepting Zoos)

Any Outfitter listing them is hunting them in Namibia.

 

[billc]

My point is if someone is trying to make a point about something someone did wrong back it up with proof. To me saying there is no blackface impala in SA is a guess. I am sure if I wanted to goggle search a few more animals I could find some that are not suppose to be in SA either naturally but they are there. Lets not act like we all don't know the game market in SA.

Like I said not a big fan of scare tactics to try and get business or by putting down other places to gain business. If guys will read what I say they will see I don't care who anyone uses just get old seeing one side. Heaven forbidden someone talks about a service they used and had good luck with. You want to pay for it pay for it. You want to use a place use them by all means.

I do post showing you can hunt Africa get stuff mounted and import for less then must people thing. I know 5 people who are going to Africa in 2016 and 2017 because of the info I shared. That is all I am trying to do. I am not trying to have everyone like me or make it like I know everything just sharing the info from my side.

 

[enysse]

I think your mounts look great Bill. I think people can learn from your posts. I think your springbok collection is very pretty. You are not the best writer and neither am I. Most days I'm exhausted before I start the day. Writing had never been my # 1 talent.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.............
I do post showing you can hunt Africa get stuff mounted and import for less then must people think. .....

I know that is your goal Bill. A laudable goal.



You are welcome to talk about the services you use, as is any other member.

A factual comparison is not a scare tactic and I encourage anyone to share facts with their fellow hunters. (As I just did in my earlier post about BFI.)

Shipping and taxidermy are the least addressed bugaboo in Safari planning.

Addressing myths and misinformation is something I encourage. Share the facts! The more knowledge we all have, the better decisions all of us are going to be make.

I constantly request quotes from members and sponsors and if they can provide the product I am after and it is within my budget I use them. If not, I am free to use other service providers. That is what happened with the shipping on my last set of trophies. I asked Robert for a quote and an alternate solution and after some work on their part (Rosella actually) the options they thought might work were not going to be cost effective and they stated it it to my face.

I also asked four other companies than the old stand by to give me quotes on shipping. Some of the total BS I was fed made me laugh. eg. " You can't ship through that country they steal your CITES permits in transit."
In the end I am using the tried and true shipper I have used in the past.
They actually screwed up an important instruction this go round. I pointed it out and they are going to address the problem immediately ( to rework the quote). Otherwise, everything has been as it should be.

I happen to use an award winning taxidermist in SA that I found 7 years ago. A nice small shop and like Dennis he does the work himself. I am satisfied with the work I get in the end, as you are with yours Bill.

I ended up with him after I dumped the Outfitter suggested Taxidermist because they were greedy. Quality is in their work but one item sank the ship. They were going to charge more for the tanning of one hide than I could get a comparable hide done for here in Canada. They lost 5 sets of trophies on that trip and three subsequent safaris worth from multiple people.

If (when) I get a Leopard it is being sent to Dennis, no matter the exchange or other costs. For the typical plains game hunt sending anything into the US for me is not in the budget. (ie. you are adding 30+% to the cost off the top in exchange).

Stay with the facts and share your stories and we should all be fine.

 

[johnnyblues]

No close ups and the photos are grainy when enlarged but at first glance the look like they are not an African Taxidermist

Lol. Ok 80% of their business is African work. Trust me there work is outstanding. Few can outdo their habitat work.

 

[harden]

I think the additional 30% for the wall pedistal is a major tripping stone for just about anyone including myself

Ted 30% is for free standing pedestals with the welded inserts in them and the welded stand to slide them onto, no cheap thread rod that you can easily bend with your hands and result in no support. The welded insert takes time to make and install , level the form, set the base and then sew and tuck around them and finish the back. Lots of difference in wall pedestal to pedestal.The new prices are for standard and wall peds if they make the form and it can be bought not have to be made.

 

[tedthorn]

Ted 30% is for free standing pedestals with the welded inserts in them and the welded stand to slide them onto, no cheap thread rod that you can easily bend with your hands and result in no support. The welded insert takes time to make and install , level the form, set the base and then sew and tuck around them and finish the back. Lots of difference in wall pedestal to pedestal.The new prices are for standard and wall peds if they make the form and it can be bought not have to be made.

10-4 Dennis
Thank you for clearing that up and giving us a description of the work.

I appreciate that

Ted