My calibers for hunting in Africa

[308W]

500m is completely unrealistic for a .308. Can it KILL at those ranges? Sure.

(...)

Not to mention, a 500m shot on a live animal is beyond unresponsible unless you are truly an exceptional game shot above and beyond average.

Not only that. Anyone who tells me they killed an animal from 500 yards or further, trying to win kudos... I take a page from Wayne Van Zwoll and simply reply "It's okay... you'll get closer next time".

To be able to shoot accurately until 500 mt it doesn't mean to use 308 only for that distance.
In any case I can tell you at 500 mt. it can kill very well a boar of 200 kg.

To be able to do that we need the following things:

1) to know very well the anatomy of the games you want to hunt;

2) to be a good shooter;

3) to know wery well your weapon system;

4) to be able to chose the righ bullet for this job.

Do you remember, how many elephant has been killed by Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell (Karamojo) with a 7x57?

 

[308W]

There is one hell of a difference between hitting something, wounding something and killing something.

The difference is inches and a rifle and round that can realistically do it, and they don't grow on trees.

I know the differences, of course there is more power at 50 mt then 500 mt, but sometime it can be useful.

Load your 308 with 165 grain Accubonds (or similar premium bonded bullet) at 2650 fps and you’ll be absolutely fine out to 300m. The stalk is the fun part of the hunt so I don’t see much reason to shoot at further ranges than that...

It can do a good job even more then 300 mt.
Obvoiously better 100-200 mt.

My son hunts with a CZ .308 here every year. He has taken everything from impala to Wildebeest with a 150 gr TSX at 2600 fps.
It is a great caliber as thousands of South African biltong hunters will attest to.
Bring it and use it.
If you want to hunt with your .223 or .243 as well then organize a trip to the Cape for a springbuck hunt in the desert. Those calibers are used by the farmers there all the time.

Oh I see!
Even 223 and 243 can be used.

 

[johnnyblues]

On my last safari I brought my 270 WSM for plains game and my 375 Ruger for my buff and wound up using it on my waterbuck and bush buck. The right bullet is paramount with both calibers for sure. I used Swift A frames backed by Northfork solids in my 375 and used 140 grain accubonds in my 270 ( too light in my opinion) but the gun shoots 3 shots touching at 100 yds with them so I felt confident using them. It did do the job on both black wildebeest and vahl rhebok.

 

[IvW]

To be able to shoot accurately until 500 mt it doesn't mean to use 308 only for that distance.
In any case I can tell you at 500 mt. it can kill very well a boar of 200 kg.

To be able to do that we need the following things:

1) to know very well the anatomy of the games you want to hunt;

2) to be a good shooter;

3) to know wery well your weapon system;

4) to be able to chose the righ bullet for this job.

Do you remember, how many elephant has been killed by Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell (Karamojo) with a 7x57?

It is claimed he shot more than 1000 elephant of which he apparently shot 800 with the 7x57 mm Rigby rifle using 173 gr Solid bullets.

He was a crack shot, new the anatomy of an elephant very well and took shot from very close, probably 15-20 meters at most). They never write about the ones that got away or where wounded or seldom do. They just moved on to the next one.

There is a great difference not only in shot placement but also bullet/ cartridge performance between say 20 m and 500 meters.

All I can say is if you can consistently kill wild boars and I am not meaning hit one with a luck shot, I mean consistently kill wild boars @ 500 meters with a 308 Win, well I rest my case, bring your 308 Win as is and hunt what you like in Africa. I find it hard to believe however 500 m(550 yards) is a long way out there.

I will stick to my comfort zone which is way under 500 meters.

Good luck.

 

[EZRider]

I know the differences, of course there is more power at 50 mt then 500 mt, but sometime it can be useful.



It can do a good job even more then 300 mt.
Obvoiously better 100-200 mt.




Oh I see!
Even 223 and 243 can be used.

Of course, springbuck are small antelope. Both calibers would also work well on steenbuck and small duiker. Many impala are taken with .243

 

[ChrisG]

... how many elephant has been killed by Walter Dalrymple Maitland Bell (Karamojo) with a 7x57?

Ahhh.... The "quote W.D.M. when making a case for a 'insert small bore here'" WDM Bell was by any account, one of the worlds best game shots. the story of him shooting birds out of the air with a .318 WR double rifle comes to mind. He also was shown to be able to shoot fish jumping out of a lake. He shot elephants at very close range and knew exactly where to slip his bullets from literally dissecting hundreds of elephants. He also wasn't paying nearly anything to hunt. It was a business for him. If he lost an elephant here and there (which he most certainly did) well, Uganda had no shortage of elephants in those days. People bring him up all the time when talking about using a cartridge which is too small or marginal and they really shouldn't he lived in a different time and fired many more rounds at game each year than most of us do in a lifetime.

Thats like me saying "I know how to drive a car, so I don't see a problem with me getting behind the wheel of this formula one machine and tearing around Monte Carlo because.... well.... other humans can do it."

Now, with that said... I see you live in Italy. I don't know what the gun laws are and if it is easy to just go purchase another rifle. If not, then learn to shoot what you have or if you need a bigger gun, borrow the PH's .375 H&H.

Up to 440 lbs inside 300 yards... a .308 will kill all day long with aplomb. .308 is a fantastic elk round within those ranges and Bull elk can run considerably more than 200 kg. But don't expect a .308 to smash through a femur, through the gut and into the vitals before your wounded trophy of a lifetime runs into the thick stuff to be lost forever.

 

[Hearties]

Of course, springbuck are small antelope. Both calibers would also work well on steenbuck and small duiker. Many impala are taken with .243

My 243 is my go-to rifle for Springbok hunting. But, as IVW says above, the wind blows in the Karoo and drift becomes a consideration beyond 200m.

 

[308W]

A rifle you shoot well is the best one to bring and use.

A good bullet, shot placement and penetration will get the job done each time.

Good luck.

Nice post and great conclusions, I agree with you!


About 223 try to listen these videos, he talks about african games too

 

[308W]

Mind that 308 was not designed for hunting, but for incapacitating enemy soldiers on such distances, where only wounding is sufficient.
Later it found its use in sport shooting an hunting, but 308 win is not perfect or ideal.

(...)

From what I have seen, in most cases 200 meters is maximum hunting distance, and often less. I would forget about hunting on 500 meters or so.

(...)

Smaller animals, are OK with average calibers in level of 308. (springbok, warthog, etc)

Hi mark-hunter,
do you think 308 "was not designed for hunting, but for incapacitating enemy soldiers on such distances"?
It has been the same story for 7x57 and 30-06, are they used for hunting or not?
Balistic difference between 30-06 and 308 is just 30 mt/sec slower.

I've mentioned 500 meters because:
- I think the 308 can kill easly and clean a small antilop at that distance;
- good gun and good cartrige can be very accurate until that distance;
- I consider myself almost a good shooter;
- I like long distance shooting/hunting.

It doesn't means i hunt and shoot only at that distance.

Finally you riconize the 308 can be OK for some african games.

Many people use 308 for hunt until 500 mt or more. Have a look to this video, it is just an example:

 

[ChrisG]

Hi mark-hunter,
do you think 308 "was not designed for hunting, but for incapacitating enemy soldiers on such distances"?
It has been the same story for 7x57 and 30-06, are they used for hunting or not?
Balistic difference between 30-06 and 308 is just 30 mt/sec slower.

I've mentioned 500 meters because:
- I think the 308 can kill easly and clean a small antilop at that distance;
- good gun and good cartrige can be very accurate until that distance;
- I consider myself almost a good shooter;
- I like long distance shooting/hunting.

It doesn't means i hunt and shoot only at that distance.

Finally you riconize the 308 can be OK for some african games.

Many people use 308 for hunt until 500 mt or more. Have a look to this video, it is just an example:

Wow!! A man takes a lucky shot at an elk at over 800 yards! What hunting prowess!!! (note the massive sarcasm here) Prime example of trying to play "sniper" by an idiot. Even trained snipers miss from that distance from time to time which makes it not a viable shot for someone with much less training. That isn't hunting.... Its just shooting at a living gong. People like the guy in this video tick me off . They need to learn how to hunt rather than practicing ballistic mathematics on live animals. That bullet DIDN'T expand at all. I can guarantee you that. And it probably hit about as hard as a .357 magnum at that range. the only reason that elk fell was because he hit something in the central nervous system. I wonder how many he hit and wounded or flat out missed before he caught his "one shot kill" on camera. What a jerk

 

[308W]

Wow!! A man takes a lucky shot at an elk at over 800 yards! What hunting prowess!!! (note the massive sarcasm here) Prime example of trying to play "sniper" by an idiot.

Ok, I can undertand your sarcasm and point of view too.
Now let me to ask you just two question:

1) do you know very well 308 Win. and use it?

2) what do you think is the maximum distance for 308, not the shooter, to kill a game of 200 kg?

 

[ChrisG]

Ok, I can undertand your sarcasm and point of view too.
Now let me to ask you just two question:

1) do you know very well 308 Win. and use it?

2) what do you think is the maximum distance for 308, not the shooter, to kill a game of 200 kg?

I have actually. I have owned two in the past. The first was a Savage 11 and the second was a Ruger M77 Scout rifle. On Anticosti Island, Quebec, I killed a large bodied whitetail at 220 yards with one. Complete pass through on a quartering shot. I would say, with good premium bullets on a 200kg animal, an ETHICAL shot would be inside 300-350 yards maximum. A .308 will surely KILL the animal further out than that, but for me, I would want to make sure my bullet expanded reliably and hit where I wanted it to without having to worry that the wind 400 yards out is going a different direction than the wind where I am sitting.

As hunters we are not just looking to KILL an animal. We are looking to kill it quickly and humanely.

Not to mention that ballistics mathematics is dynamic, not just a static set of numbers. To land a bullet in a kill zone inside 300 yards is challenging from field positions but doable. To do it with a .308, which has a trajectory like a catapult beyond 400 yards is, even more challenging. In my opinion however, a person has accomplished nothing but a simple technical feat when they make hits on animals at super long range. Its something I actually find distasteful when someone starts bragging about all the animals they have killed beyond 500 yards and I have my doubts about how many "800 yard shots" are actually 800 yards or more like 450. Basically, when they start bragging about long range hunting (which is an oxymoron by the way), what I hear is "I am very bad at hunting". Every once in a while, a shot at 500 yards or or further presents itself and that is where having the maturity to pass on it is a good thing. Now this is all my opinion and I know there are people on here that will disagree with me, but I also know there are a lot of people on here that think the same way. If you can't get close, work on stalking skills until you can.

a .308 drops below 2,000 fps between 275 and 350 yards depending on your load. THAT is the maximum range for me. I don't care if I could make a hit at 400 yards or not. The bullet won't do what it was engineered to do reliably, so I will not take a shot like that and risk wounding an animal. Its depressing for me and I am sure it is more depressing for your guide.

 

[IvW]

NOTICE 1614 OF 2009 DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERISTY ACT, 2004 (ACT NO. 10 OF 2004) DRAFT NORMS AND STANDARDS FOR THE REGULATION OF THE HUNTING INDUSTRY IN SOUTH AFRICA

Minimum calibers for rifle hunting CHAPTER4 CATEGORIES OF HUNTING 21. The following norms apply to minimum rifle calibers for the hunting of different categories of wild animals-

( a) .22 or 5.56mm rimfire rifle for the hunting of- (i) furred game up to and including the size of rock hyrax; and (ii) feathered game;

(b) .22 or 5.56mm centre fire rifle for the hunting of furred game up to and including the size of springbok;
(c) .270 or 7mm rifle for the hunting of- (i) furred game larger than springbuck, up to and including eland, but excluding dangerous game or giraffe; and (ii) ostrich; and

(d) .375 H&H Magnum or larger caliber for the hunting of-(i) giraffe; (ii) dangerous game; and (iii) pachyderms, provided that the bullet must be of full metal jacket (solid) or monolithic solid construction.

Yes this is not always followed but this is what the The national Environmental Management Act stipulates as minimum calibers for hunting in South Africa.

So if you want to haul a .223 all the way to Africa to hunt jackals and springbuck(the .243 falls in the same category so does the 6.5mm), then go ahead.

I would rather bring a legal caliber and in so doing not only be within the law but also give myself a better chance of killing what I am shooting at.

 

[mark-hunter]

a .308 drops below 2,000 fps between 275 and 350 yards depending on your load. THAT is the maximum range for me. I don't care if I could make a hit at 400 yards or not. The bullet won't do what it was engineered to do reliably, so I will not take a shot like that and risk wounding an animal. Its depressing for me and I am sure it is more depressing for your guide.

I agree with this, absolutely!

 

[Von S.]

I believe that with one day training everyone here could hit a B-27 with a 308 at 500 yards with an outfit that shoots better than 99% of the people who will pull the trigger.of course you'll be off a bench, with no wind.

If the best a guy can do is hit the paper then his chance of making a kill are slim and none. But if he can hit the head5 out of 5 times he stands a chance of killing deer at will at 500.

Of course it does help to have a bench, sandbags and all sorts of other cool stuff with you.

It also helps to have something zippier than a 308 cause it looses its juice after a while and then no matter where you hit it it just won't stop.

Maybe " Good Ol 308" really is one hot shit shot who probably just needs a bigger gun and shoot about 200 yards less in distance?

Then when he goes to Africa he'll be the most dangerous animal there?

Good luck.

 

[mark-hunter]

NOTICE 1614 OF 2009 DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERISTY ACT, 2004 (ACT NO. 10 OF 2004) DRAFT NORMS AND STANDARDS FOR THE REGULATION OF THE HUNTING INDUSTRY IN SOUTH AFRICA

Is there any legal limit in hunting distance? Either RSA, or Namibia, or other African country?

 

[Red Leg]

Hi mark-hunter,
do you think 308 "was not designed for hunting, but for incapacitating enemy soldiers on such distances"?
It has been the same story for 7x57 and 30-06, are they used for hunting or not?
Balistic difference between 30-06 and 308 is just 30 mt/sec slower.

I've mentioned 500 meters because:
- I think the 308 can kill easly and clean a small antilop at that distance;
- good gun and good cartrige can be very accurate until that distance;
- I consider myself almost a good shooter;
- I like long distance shooting/hunting.

It doesn't means i hunt and shoot only at that distance.

Finally you riconize the 308 can be OK for some african games.

Many people use 308 for hunt until 500 mt or more. Have a look to this video, it is just an example:

That video is a lot of things, but it isn't an elk "hunt". It is using the hunting season to legally make a long range target out of an elk. I find it a reprehensible practice. So do a lot of other ethical hunters. You asked the forum what we thought of using the .308 as a PG caliber. I think the general answer is fine within its limitations. You seem to disagree with those limitations - without ever having taken an African animal. Fine. I think you also want agreement that it is a good choice as a long range hunting rifle. I think most people here disagree with that assessment entirely. That includes quite a few hunters who have a lot of experience both in Africa and elsewhere, and hunters who have a lot of experience with the .308. Heck, I own three. Most think of the caliber as an effective moderate range deer rifle, typically in a compact package. I don't know a single other hunter who thinks of theirs as a long range precision hunting rifle. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice when I going on a mountain hunt where a long shot might be likely. There are so many better choices. I just used a .300 Win Mag on a Spanish Ibex.

But it is your safari and your investment. As long as it is legal, take the rifle you want to take. If you wound game at long range with in inadequate round and don't recover it, it is your check book and your conscience.

Virtually all PH's will try to get you as close as they reasonably can to your target animal. That lessens the chance of a wounded and lost animal. Most see that as an ethical approach to "hunting" game. I would concur.

 

[308W]

NOTICE 1614 OF 2009 DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERISTY ACT, 2004 (ACT NO. 10 OF 2004) DRAFT NORMS AND STANDARDS FOR THE REGULATION OF THE HUNTING INDUSTRY IN SOUTH AFRICA

(c) .270 or 7mm rifle for the hunting of- (i) furred game larger than springbuck, up to and including eland, but excluding dangerous game or giraffe; and (ii) ostrich; and

(d) .375 H&H Magnum or larger caliber for the hunting of-(i) giraffe; (ii) dangerous game; and (iii) pachyderms, provided that the bullet must be of full metal jacket (solid) or monolithic solid construction.

Don't tell me in the new South Africa they forget the .30 calibers!?

Allow me to greet all my South African friends

 

[IvW]

Is there any legal limit in hunting distance? Either RSA, or Namibia, or other African country?

Nope no distance legal limits but, sanity should prevail.

 

[IvW]

Don't tell me in the new South Africa they forget the .30 calibers!?

Read again, those are the minimum calibers. The 30 calibers fall in group(c)..