Muzzle Control on Safari

[roverandbrew]

This thread reminds me of the Pre-Sept 11th shoot house argument on high carry vs low carry. The conversation went away when people starting doing real work. I have no issue with someone with an African carry behind me if they are aware of the status of their weapon, aware of the terrain they are walking on or through, to prevent tripping or snagged on a branch. If their head is on a swivel they will manipulate their muzzle as required. I would much rather have a COMPETENT hunter doing whatever he wants behind me than a nervous Nelly doing port arms who carries a rifle a couple times a year.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Good odds you would be dead in a week clearing houses all night, every night, at Port arms. It’s not fast or maneuverable enough.

However, We still use port arms with M1 carbines and M14s while marching and rendering honors for my Legion and VFW posts

 

[HookMeUpII]

Muzzle control is always important but no matter how you cut it, but there's always something that can be done better. You have to come to the realization that 1) a round is more than likely in the chamber and 2) you will likely have the muzzle pointed in not the completely ideal direction. By that I don't mean pointed at someone's back. It might be pointed somewhere in their general direction, at some point though.

Hunting is dangerous. Period. If the game isn't dangerous, the practice itself is. Dove hunting sees tons of people get sprayed/shot every year. Same with upland. Same with waterfowl. In Africa, the game or wildlife is more of a risk but in the end you are walking next to someone with a round in their or your chamber ready to go boom.

Following your PH through the thick stuff, it's pretty hard to keep the muzzle up in the air. Best you can do is try and keep it pointed down and canted away from your PH, with the safety on. There's been a number of discussions on here about when to chamber a round and not. Follow what your PH says.

In the end, you do the best you can. If you want to really eliminate the danger? Golf is a good option.

 

[Datchew]

well.... kinda....

Alligator attacks golfers on cart

 

[HookMeUpII]

well.... kinda....

Alligator attacks golfers on cart

Yup.

My wife actually worries more about me walking across the street from my office to get a coffee than she does out hunting.

There is no such thing as "completely safe."

Ask someone stalking a wounded buffalo how they feel about no round in the chamber.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Muzzle control is always important but no matter how you cut it, but there's always something that can be done better. You have to come to the realization that 1) a round is more than likely in the chamber and 2) you will likely have the muzzle pointed in not the completely ideal direction. By that I don't mean pointed at someone's back. It might be pointed somewhere in their general direction, at some point though.

Hunting is dangerous. Period. If the game isn't dangerous, the practice itself is. Dove hunting sees tons of people get sprayed/shot every year. Same with upland. Same with waterfowl. In Africa, the game or wildlife is more of a risk but in the end you are walking next to someone with a round in their or your chamber ready to go boom.

Following your PH through the thick stuff, it's pretty hard to keep the muzzle up in the air. Best you can do is try and keep it pointed down and canted away from your PH, with the safety on. There's been a number of discussions on here about when to chamber a round and not. Follow what your PH says.

In the end, you do the best you can. If you want to really eliminate the danger? Golf is a good option.

Actually, more people die while golfing than they do while hunting. Nothing is completely safe, and wouldn't it be a boring world if everything was?

 

[HookMeUpII]

Actually, more people die while golfing than they do while hunting. Nothing is completely safe, and wouldn't it be a boring world if everything was?

I'm a big stats guy and that's because a vast number of people golf, but I agree completely.

Why would anyone live life completely safe? That's incredibly boring.

I do a lot of NE tidal duck hunting. A good amount of the time I am sitting next to a buddy in my boat, with a loaded shotgun, sometimes the floor covered in ice, with our fingers numb. It can be dangerous. Doesn't stop me from doing it. Just do the best you can to be safe.

 

[Philip Glass]

A couple of things, first you can't go by camera angles. Watch when they get ready to take a shot and then wait 10 minutes while you can see a perfect shot on the animal. Well, the hunter doesn't see the same thing as the camera does.

Second, most of the time those rifles won't have a round chambered until they are ready to shoot the animal.

But I do agree with you, even an unloaded rifle should be treated with respect and the muzzle should never be pointed in the direction of another person.

Jim I think you are right about camera angles. We have had this discussion before and it has come from well meaning folks with little to no safari experience.
I've never felt truly uncomfortable on safari in this respect. In a DG area the rifles have to be loaded so that is a different dynamic. I am sure on camera at times I look like my double is pointing at another person when in reality it is not.
We never want to compromise safety so it is a worthy discussion.

 

[hoytcanon]

This thread reminds me of the Pre-Sept 11th shoot house argument on high carry vs low carry. The conversation went away when people starting doing real work. I have no issue with someone with an African carry behind me if they are aware of the status of their weapon, aware of the terrain they are walking on or through, to prevent tripping or snagged on a branch. If their head is on a swivel they will manipulate their muzzle as required. I would much rather have a COMPETENT hunter doing whatever he wants behind me than a nervous Nelly doing port arms who carries a rifle a couple times a year.

I do not agree. My father started me hunting more than five decades ago... he taught me the core firearms safety... always check the gun yourself, and NEVER have the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction whether you checked it or not. More than five decades later, hunting and guiding several months every year, and despite being religious about firearm safety, I can still recall a few times where things got crazy and I lost track of the status of my gun... those are the times when shit hit the fan in crawling through brush tracking a wounded bear or trying to maneuver a giant, rutting bull moose into an opening in the brush. Regardless of your experience, adrenalin does funny things to the mind... in tight quarters with a buffalo or lion or leopard, don't think that because someone is "experienced" that they can't make a mistake. NEVER have the muzzle pointed unsafely... period. If some neophyte walks in front of your muzzle, be aware and move your muzzle while at the same time educate that person to be situationally aware. PH's and guides deal with inexperienced and sometimes careless hunters all the time, but for the sake of all, you should gently educate them on their error and the proper way to deal with that scenario. I have had close calls, and have almost taken a crossbow bolt to the chest by a client... thankfully it was about 5 degrees off line, but it was not a comfortable feeling and neither was the conversation that followed...

Be safe, control your muzzle... regardless of whether you "think" or "know" if it has a bullet chambered or whether or not it is on safe.

 

[C.W. Richter]

That guy is so full of himself ... and bullshit. Carry a rifle like that and you can VERY easily be in trouble trying to shoot fast. Ask anyone who's hunted uplands. The butt will get caught in clothing as it's mounted quickly. Been there done that. Get the gun at "ready" position out in front of the body. The military preached this for good reason (before changing to pistol grip AR style stocks).

I could only make it 3/4 through that video. Mark Sullivan is the definition of "obnoxious." Ugh!!! How does that guy get his head through the door?

I'd far rather be with Mark Sullivan (I know him lol) than Jim Shockey, when the S hits the fan!!! He IS Fearless. It's attitudes like this that scare Democrats, but they make great leaders. Muzzle ALWAYS in a safe direction, NO finger on the trigger until it's time (EVEN if the safety/trigger get re-arranged by heavy brush and the gun discharges, no one gets hurt.) I have to say I've never seen a tang or trigger guard safety get pulled off by brush, but well-used M70 styles hanging out in the breeze, unfortunately YES! There's something to say about low-pro. Also, doing some upland bird hunting with a group (formation, zones) will definitely keep your safety game sharp (unless an aged VP of course,) with a number of muzzles flying around.