Missing Trophies

[PARA45]

You are absolutely correct BRICKBURN.

 

[norfolk shooter]

In this sort of a situation how would one take legal action being on the other side of the planet?? I have trophies that are ready to be exported but cant be due to missing details to satisfy CITES

 

[IvW]

In this sort of a situation how would one take legal action being on the other side of the planet?? I have trophies that are ready to be exported but cant be due to missing details to satisfy CITES

What details would those be?

 

[norfolk shooter]

What details would those be?

(1) Full details of the breeding facility (including the name and address of the facility, a description, and the date of establishment)

(2) The number and origin of the founder breeding stock, with date and details of acquisition.

(3) The size of current breeding stock in total number of individuals including the male/female ratio

(4) The origin of the parents of the specimens in this application including date of birth, the name and address of breeder, date and details of acquisition

(5) The year of first successful breeding

(6) Whether the breeder has bred this species to F2 generation

(7) Whether the breeding stock has been augmented with wild-taken individuals, and if so details of how many and when

(8) Full details of annual production

(9) The date of birth and sex of the specimen to be imported

 

[mark-hunter]

This, to my understanding is to be submitted by outfiiter. Why hasnt he?

 

[norfolk shooter]

This, to my understanding is to be submitted by outfiiter. Why hasnt he?

Another Pawprint fuck up then

 

[enysse]

Where there is smoke, there is usually a fire.

 

[huntinlabs]

Another Pawprint fuck up then

took me over a month to get my black wildebeest permit finally signed.. had another outfitter step in and help with reaching out as long as daily messages from me, the exporter trying to get it. Finally succeeded!

 

[fourfive8]

Johnny,
I did not write a hunt report after our 2018 trip with Paw Print, maybe I should have, but honestly it never felt like a "hunt". It seems a bit ill on my part to do so now considering Pieter's passing. I had no problems with him, he treated us fairly and all our animals arrived here in the states just fine. Our problems came with the hunting, or maybe what I should call shooting fish in a barrel. Just not my style and it did not sit well with my wife. The accommodations were so so. The cook, Claudius was a great guy from Zimbabwe and was thrilled that I could speak a bit of Shona. Dogs barking all night long made it hard to sleep. When we arrived in camp there was already a group of people there from Norway, really nice folks. The first moment they had without any of Pieter's people around, they gave us the low down and were not happy with the outfit and would not be back again. Small properties, being asked if I wanted to shoot animals in small enclosures. A tracker that, though a great guy that I got along with, could not track a Mastodon in a fresh snow.
The items that really made me uneasy about Pieter and our so called PH were the issues concerning our interactions with Stephen our tracker. I would get out and open gates, speak to Stephen as if he was a human being, laugh and crack jokes, generally treat him like I would anyone else. That did not sit well with the PH, to bad I gave no shits. When I was first introduced to Stephen he was wearing tattered tennis shoes. One day coming back to camp I had our PH stop at the sporting goods store and got Stephen a decent pair of boots. I found out later that the PH told Pieter that Stephen had pestered me to buy him the boots, that was an outright lie, he never knew what we were doing. Pieter took the cost of the boots out of Stephens pay. Fine give the money back to me, don't stick it in your damn pocket.
Our PH never sent us the photos he took, like he promised. I too had seen many good reports here and even spoke with Paw Prints US rep and all sounded good. It just was not hunting by my standards. The final straw was being driven around and around the property surrounding Pieter's new home for 3 days in a row chasing the only 2 Gemsbok on the property. Drove the same roads endlessly, saw the same 6 Zebra several times a day, it was like Groundhog day. We did work our asses of and finally on the last day caught both Gemsbok out in the open.
Best thing that came out of our trip is our continuing friendship with Stephen. We Whats app each other weekly and last year in Johannesburg he and his family were able to come to the City lodge hotel and spend the evening with us on our way to Zimbabwe. We got he and his family a couple of rooms and took them to dinner. It was a treat to see his kids really enjoying the meal, their reactions told me it was something they did not do often. The trip was not a total write off, but if I could go back we would have spent the money elsewhere, as long as I could have still crossed paths with Stephen.

John
P.S. The reason I keep referring to the PH, as the "so called PH"was his constant bragging about how good he was. Told me of the time he spent in Zim, and Moz. as an appy. Then promptly turns around and brags how he has never had to carry a gun while being a PH. You show me an appy PH in ZIm or Moz that does not have to carry a gun. I got a talking to on our first trip to Zim for walking away without my rifle. Sorry if this is off topic for this thread, just finally got to the point where I needed to get this off my chest. I have never referred to this particular trip as a hunting trip when talking to others about it. I call it a shooting trip.

Too bad and I really feel for anyone having to pay for that or even be exposed to that! There are any number of HUGE red flags in this report. For anyone new to planning for Africa, if you hear anything even similar to any parts of this... run! I have met a lot of really decent, genuine "locals" just like Stephen. I always make it a point to visit with the cooks and staff, trackers, skinners, game scouts, laundry folks, even the "lowly" wood gathers and fire tenders on each trip. That's a whole other world of the safari that sadly many hunters often miss out on. To this day I often think of them and sincerely hope they are doing ok.

 

[Tgood1]

I concur wholeheartedly, I've had a tremendous amount of fun with the camp staff and learned some great things with the skinners and kitchen staff. Fantastic people. Adds a whole new dimension associating with the staff in a casual way

 

[Countrylife]

Too bad and I really feel for anyone having to pay for that or even be exposed to that! There are any number of HUGE red flags in this report. For anyone new to planning for Africa, if you hear anything even similar to any parts of this... run! I have met a lot of really decent, genuine "locals" just like Stephen. I always make it a point to visit with the cooks and staff, trackers, skinners, game scouts, laundry folks, even the "lowly" wood gathers and fire tenders on each trip. That's a whole other world of the safari that sadly many hunters often miss out on. To this day I often think of them and sincerely hope they are doing ok.

That's what I wanted to do when I went on my first safari, but it didn't turn out like that. I was told that the staff would be up well before I was and would go to bed after I did and would prefer to get some rest instead of visiting with me. They would visit with us if I required it, but they wanted their own time. This came from the booking agent and I didn't inquire with outfitter once I got there, I should have. I did get chastized by the agent when I tried to contact the PH directly since I wasn't getting answers to questions from them. Towards the end of the hunt I found out the list of animals I had contracted for was not the same that was given to the PH and outfitter. After that I started to question a lot of other things the agent told me. I will not use an agent again.

 

[375Fox]

That's what I wanted to do when I went on my first safari, but it didn't turn out like that. I was told that the staff would be up well before I was and would go to bed after I did and would prefer to get some rest instead of visiting with me. They would visit with us if I required it, but they wanted their own time. This came from the booking agent and I didn't inquire with outfitter once I got there, I should have. I did get chastized by the agent when I tried to contact the PH directly since I wasn't getting answers to questions from them. Towards the end of the hunt I found out the list of animals I had contracted for was not the same that was given to the PH and outfitter. After that I started to question a lot of other things the agent told me. I will not use an agent again.

I think it’s unfair to say you will never use an agent again. A reputable agent can save you from a lot of problems. Any good agent would have encouraged communication between outfitter and client after the hunt was booked.

 

[Proneshooter]

That's what I wanted to do when I went on my first safari, but it didn't turn out like that. I was told that the staff would be up well before I was and would go to bed after I did and would prefer to get some rest instead of visiting with me. They would visit with us if I required it, but they wanted their own time. This came from the booking agent and I didn't inquire with outfitter once I got there, I should have. I did get chastized by the agent when I tried to contact the PH directly since I wasn't getting answers to questions from them. Towards the end of the hunt I found out the list of animals I had contracted for was not the same that was given to the PH and outfitter. After that I started to question a lot of other things the agent told me. I will not use an agent again.

I have to agree with what 375 said above. We have used the same agent for both our trips to Zimbabwe (not the SA trip) and I have always been encouraged to contact the PH with questions. If not I would have told the agent to pound sand. All emails are carbon copied so everyone sees the same question/ info. A good agent can be a lifesaver along with a good travel agent.
John

 

[Firebird]

One of the most upsetting things on this post to me is the number of people who had an unsatisfactory experience but failed to report it.
Several times I have researched ph’s or companies and found honest people who didn’t post simply because they did have a bad time and felt like posting was a waste of time. Others feared the backlash from members on this very site who didn’t share the same opinion.
My advice would be to make phone calls and send e mails-to everyone you can think of! I also used an importer/exporter and found them excellent in their responsibilities.
Research, research, research. . .

 

[BRICKBURN]

One of the most upsetting things on this post to me is the number of people who had an unsatisfactory experience but failed to reports. ............... Others feared the backlash from members on this very site who didn’t share the same opinion.
.............. .

Most of the time "backlash" occurs because a bad report looks like "spam".

The report says: "XYZ, sucks!"
No pictures, no details, etc.
Either way, it's as good as spam.

Post ANY REPORT. Good, bad, mediocre, etc.
Be factual, state your case.

How does a company change without feedback?
How do hunters choose other Outfits to force change in the industry without information?

Just share the facts to help your fellow hunter.

 

[twoshots]

I have hunted Africa twice.

I hunted with Pawprint the second time. I did not hunt on the camp property nor did I stay there. We did visit the camp bar on a foul weather day. Pawprint certainly tailored to the working man and it was a no frills experience. They didn't put on a show.

Our experience was good overall. The properties we hunted were small side of medium to quite large (800 acres to 20000) acres roughly. I specifically said I did not want to hunt small properties and would not hunt from the truck. We hunted with a PH from outside the company due to how full camp was. His name was Henry and he did a great job. I was specific about how we would hunt and that is how we hunted. If people had bad experiences they should post them, not much point after others have deposits in or the man has passed on. I am sympathetic to the people who have had bad experiences as it makes us all leery to hunt Africa.

I currently have an outstanding deposit with pawprint for a limpopo PG hunt but arrangements have been made to do the hunt with another hunter. We will see if it goes or how it goes as it was delayed by covid19. Rest assured if there are issues, I will pass them on so others don't have troubles. We owe it to everyone including the good outfits to communicate truthfully and not just via private messages.

 

[fourfive8]

That's what I wanted to do when I went on my first safari, but it didn't turn out like that. I was told that the staff would be up well before I was and would go to bed after I did and would prefer to get some rest instead of visiting with me. They would visit with us if I required it, but they wanted their own time. This came from the booking agent and I didn't inquire with outfitter once I got there, I should have. I did get chastized by the agent when I tried to contact the PH directly since I wasn't getting answers to questions from them. Towards the end of the hunt I found out the list of animals I had contracted for was not the same that was given to the PH and outfitter. After that I started to question a lot of other things the agent told me. I will not use an agent again.

OOPS! more red flags- if the agent handles all the details then discourages direct communication with outfitter or PH!! I've done it both ways- through agents and directly through outfitter/PH. NEVER have I been discouraged from contacting the PH directly! Actually quite the opposite. And something is really wrong if there is more than one available trophy list! Sometimes quotas get depleted and that can happen but that is where good and frequent communications help prevent such issues before they start.

Too many competing interests all trying desperately to completely fill the calendar on any one property from beginning of season to end of season along with trying to sell max numbers of trophy fees. Filling a calendar and selling trophies is one thing but edging toward running a "hunter mill" operation is something different. Many may be involved in causing this type problem too... some directly, some indirectly- hands off landowners and lessees, third party concession permitees, outfitters, PHs, multiple booking agents, and so on.

 

[Spearhead]

This is the biggest failing of the African Safari industry. After the Safari is done and you’ve paid the customer service stops in many cases.
I am sorry for the unfortunate situation with the owners passing. This should never happen and I don’t know what to tell people except to hunt with real professionals who have a track record of taking care of clients trophies.
Philip

This scares me enough that I have slowed my planning wayyyyy down. I’m doing homework, but these keep popping up and are ruining the excitement. Swapping hides , missing trophies, exchanging skulls....

 

[375Fox]

This scares me enough that I have slowed my planning wayyyyy down. I’m doing homework, but these keep popping up and are ruining the excitement. Swapping hides , missing trophies, exchanging skulls....

This shouldn’t make you slow your planning way down. It should make you ask better questions. These negative threads do more damage than good when it scares people away for something that has not happened to the vast majority of us.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Perfect illustrations right here:
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/better-questions-to-ask-when-looking-for-a-hunt….23825/