Mine or Theirs?

[Rell]

For plains game … I use the outfitters guns.
For DG …. Do you really have a choice not to use yours

 

[Philip Glass]

It seems that hopefully this Covid mess is slowly easing. Consequently, if we can get to the point with no airline mask requirements, I will seriously consider one last African hunt (been twice, and am smiling at 76). Only want a couple of buff. All that said, here's my thread discussion. I will probably take the WR. She deserves one last hunt - I guess like me. However, I keep hearing horror stories about traveling with guns and would hate to lose her. Therefore, the thought crosses my mind about making arrangements to use PH client rifles, assuming they have them available. Now, before anyone gets too serious about responding, I am throwing this out for, shall we say a philosophical discussion only. I am sure the Westley will get the job.

My suggestion you disregard all those poorly prepared safari rookies who complain of travel issues And suggest “use the camp guns”. They usually bought their plane ticket on their phone and had no idea what they were doing at the time. I strongly suggest you use Patrick at TWG.travel for your final hoorah. Ill take my 17, 18, & 19th trips to Africa this year. I use a travel agent and I have never had a serious issue with traveling with guns. Please plan to take your WR on your last epic adventure. Anything less would simply be sad.
Regards,
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Airline and travel restrictions may ease, but you still run the risk of some country changing the pandemic rules and you getting stuck there.

Please stop this fear mongering attitude on AH. If you are scared to travel please just keep that disease to yourself. It spreads.

 

[Philip Glass]

I’ve been on 10 trips to Africa, most recently October 21. My guns have never been lost or delayed. I had my bags delayed on one trip 3 days. I nearly got stuck in South Africa in March 2020 while hunting. I wish the stories of “trouble” traveling with firearms would go away. Use a travel agent, have your paperwork in order with multiple copies, get a pre approved permit if possible. Traveling and hunting with my own firearms is important to me. I’ve never had an issue I couldn’t get worked out.

Thank you!

 

[Philip Glass]

Agreed. Plan to fly Qatar from Seattle to wherever we decide to hunt. Business or First.

Awesome! Qatar only has business class to the US now as they are not flying many of the A380’s now. That was the only plane with first class. The QSuite was designed to replace first class.

 

[Philip Glass]

Well, if it's business class on Qatar you'll most likely have to take out a loan for the ticket(s)! I was quoted $8k for business class last November when I subsequently booked economy for my PG hunt this June. Maybe it was just that flight or maybe I was unlucky, but I've heard both their and other airlines have raised ticket prices for first/business class. I'm glad I'm going this year!

You have to book early on these flights. We got ours done a few months ahead of you for $4500 and then the prices went crazy. I’m sorry that happened but the airlines prices make no sense sometimes. I think going forward, especially next year, we will see more competition and decent prices on all fares.

 

[Philip Glass]

Another piece of advice. Use an experienced safari travel agent to handle the airline paperwork. I’ve used TWG and Gracy. Both made traveling with guns easy. DIY at your own risk.

Correct!

 

[Philip Glass]

To the contrary, you might not want to use an experienced travel agent whatsoever. A few reasons:

A.) They won’t be getting your 4457 for you. You have to do that yourself.
B.) They do not file for some airlines. For example, Emirates is self-service and you must log in using your information.
C.) Countries like Zimbabwe, you fill out your own permit paperwork and you get your permit at the port of entry…your travel agent doesn’t do that for you.

So in the above example, zero benefit provided by a travel agent.

I’ve used one of the travel agents advertised on this site twice for Africa. In one instance, they gave me wholly incorrect advice and my rifles were missing for 3 days. They didn’t sort it out, a bribe of $500 sorted out their recovery. (The travel agent told me the guns would check through, they did not.)

Many of the things people believe you will get from the travel agent are actually not included and are instead provided by Henry at riflepermits.com . If you need help with SAPS, a meet and greet, or counter to counter assistance, It’s Henry’s team that does that for a fee. If you need guns secured for an overnight in Jo’Burg at Afton House or elsewhere, it’s AFton House or Henry’s team that sorts out their secure storage overnight.

Other non-value-adds of travel agents include:

1.) You pay a higher price for the fares than booking direct With many carriers
2.) You pay a service charge for the travel agent
3.) Using miles for upgrades is either the same or harder
4.) Supersaver fares are not always presented to the travel agencies, including signficant Discounts on biz class fares. I bought my biz class tickets for as much as a $1000 cheaper via sales and coupon codes on the airline website the travel agent could not get.
5.) The illusion of the single ticket. I was told by an advertiser on this site that in exchange for the $700 more I paid to use their agency, all my flights would be on a single ticket and in so doing, the prevailing carrier’s rules would apply, and I would not need to check my guns in and out multiple times. It was not true. The gate attendant swore my guns were aboard as well….lost several days of hunting with my guns. No refund of the $700 overcharge paid For bad advice.

Where you might want or need a travel agent is when you wish to play with fire. Flying through Europe. Laying over in Frankfurt/London/Amsterdam, then on to a sanctioned African nation…yeah, that could go pear shape very quickly. But for USA to Africa single carrier flights that begin in the USA and end in Zim or Jo’Burg RSA? Not a believer.

Most of your information is wrong and I believe you have had some hard luck. Sorry about that. For single carrier flights, yes, maybe. If you live in Atlanta and are hunting Limpopo you could certainly, with proper planning, DIY that trip. Most of us I believe will be on 3 airlines to get where we are going. When you have constant flight changes and cancellations like we have had for the last two years an agent makes the changes seamless.
I am beginning to understand your frustrations with travel. I simply believe it is bad advice for the new international hunter. The DIY mentality is THE reason we are having this discussion of taking or not taking rifles in this thread.
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Well……I traveled to Zim on Emirates in Sept. I did have to get my own 4457 form certified by US Customs before filing the Emirates forms. However Gracy took my information and completed the Emirates paperwork. When I arrived at check in, the counter folks were waiting for me and everything went super smooth.

They handled my original arrangements and multiple re-bookings (thanks to the COVID pandemic) for a few hundred bucks. I am fully satisfied with the service I received. Your results may vary.

I have seen a number of posts on this forum from people who handled it all themselves and had major problems due to running afoul of the airline paperwork and process.

Doug you are correct. The same scenario plays out Over and over. DIY flights with guns and then here comes the advice that it’s too hard to take your rifles.

 

[Rell]

No one is 100% right here, maybe the trip they did went well with a travel agent but … I’ve had it go both ways. I’ve been told guns and bags check through my Gracie and then … oh no they don’t.

Henry is great for RSA, but I’ve seen his people get in pissing matches with police and … oh they loose and I missed a contracting flight.

Travel with guns to Africa is a significant added hassle, is it worth it? Your call, but no one makes it easy. People are involved and anyone from an airline clerk to a cop to a customs agent to a baggage handler can (and often does) toss the cat.

throwing money at the problem is a good idea but it’s still a hassle and it doesn’t guaranty a great outcome.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Mine or theirs? YOURS! I'm with the majority here. Use TWG, Gracy, Travel Express, one airline, minimum connections, ignore the naysayers and take your own guns. Can there be issues? Certainly but from what I've heard, read and experienced, they are outliers and not the norm. The three aforementioned agencies have been in business for a long time. If they weren't providing a value added service, they wouldn't still be in business. Trip #8 in June and Gracy will be handling everything including meet & greet. Others, YMMV.

Edit: Got a call from Gracy's Bruce a couple weeks ago to check in and see how I was doing. He said the hunters were picking up going through Joburg and it looked like things were getting better.

 

[rookhawk]

If you fly single carrier using Emirates, this is their gun permit process. It’s so easy. Upload invitation letter, 4457, passport picture, flight details to and from. Never had an issue with it, one of the simpler airline approval processes. If you’re connecting with a domestic carrier involved or a puddle jumper regional carrier, that’s where things surely can go pear shaped and you may need professional assistance. (Whether travel agent or permit expert…I prefer the latter)

Firearms | Submit a form for your request | Help | Emirates United States

Complete the form to request approval to carry personal firearms on your upcoming Emirates flight.

www.emirates.com

 

[rookhawk]

Please stop this fear mongering attitude on AH. If you are scared to travel please just keep that disease to yourself. It spreads.

@Philip Glass I do think its worth fearmongering about changing Covid rules. The fear is real. But where? Certainly not in the countries desperate for foreign tourism and investment. Africa isn’t going to screw the tourist, people are starving.

So where should the fearmongering be then? What countries will break the backs of their own economies for posturing purposes? Ask Trudeau and Biden.

The bright news is elections are coming and as such, the Dems and Labor parties are doing a 180 degree political turn as they’ve milked the pandemic fear and lockdowns as far as they can. Now they will take excessive risks the opposite direction more likely than not as they need to garner votes from moderates and conservative democrats.

So risk assessment of Covid restrictions screwing you over on safari: From Africa’s own doing, extremely low. From your first world Nation of residence, moderate but decreasing risk week over week.

 

[CoElkHunter]

You have to book early on these flights. We got ours done a few months ahead of you for $4500 and then the prices went crazy. I’m sorry that happened but the airlines prices make no sense sometimes. I think going forward, especially next year, we will see more competition and decent prices on all fares.

Oh, no worries Philip. As you said, I booked mine later and knew I would be paying a little more for my economy class ticket. It is what it is and I'm just happy to be going along with your group on this trip. Like you have mentioned before, Qatar may be the safer choice for not having flights cancelled at the last moment due to staffing and/or passenger loads. I think some booking flights for Safaris now however, are seeing a greater standard increase in overall prices especially for business/first class. Probably due to rising wages for their employees and fuel costs?
Mark

 

[Scott CWO]

One other thing to consider in all these pros and cons using a Travel Agent is Internet. Out in the bush (heck even in cities) if something changes one does not have fast Internet or even a large monitor to see what one is doing.

If something changes your Travel Agent can take care of it much, much easier and faster. Most of the time in Africa I do not have cell service let alone Wifi access (not glamping at RSA). So, a travel agent keeping an eye out for me is well worth it. I do take a Garmin Inreach+ with me so we can text back and forth if needed, but I would not be able to adjust my itinerary.

Exactly. In today’s environment, things can change and I sometimes finish a safari early. I text my wife on my InReach or use my sat phone to get a direct message to Gracy from a remote camp. Gracy then changes my itinerary, which is something I can’t do from a remote camp very easily. Gracy is also on the watch for changes made by the airlines or governments that I wouldn’t even hear about in camp or even at home. I don’t like surprises.

 

[Nyati]

First four safaris, I took my own gun, then Swiss Air failed to get my gun onboard

Next three Safaris, I used my outfitter´s guns, no hassle, just traveled like a normal tourist

 

[Doug3006]

@Philip Glass I do think its worth fearmongering about changing Covid rules. The fear is real. But where? Certainly not in the countries desperate for foreign tourism and investment. Africa isn’t going to screw the tourist, people are starving.

So where should the fearmongering be then? What countries will break the backs of their own economies for posturing purposes? Ask Trudeau and Biden.

The bright news is elections are coming and as such, the Dems and Labor parties are doing a 180 degree political turn as they’ve milked the pandemic fear and lockdowns as far as they can. Now they will take excessive risks the opposite direction more likely than not as they need to garner votes from moderates and conservative democrats.

So risk assessment of Covid restrictions screwing you over on safari: From Africa’s own doing, extremely low. From your first world Nation of residence, moderate but decreasing risk week over week.

Rookhawk, I simply don’t agree with you that it’s too risky to travel due to the possibility of being stranded due to COVID. It hasn’t been the case for US travelers for some time. Many of us traveled to Africa last year and I don’t remember reading that anyone was stranded. It’s more likely to be stranded due to airline issues. We all have to evaluate risk for ourselves. You can go or stay home as you think right. Advising others to stay home, despite plenty of evidence that people have gone with no problem, seems to be fear mongering.

 

[rookhawk]

Rookhawk, I simply don’t agree with you that it’s too risky to travel due to the possibility of being stranded due to COVID. It hasn’t been the case for US travelers for some time. Many of us traveled to Africa last year and I don’t remember reading that anyone was stranded. It’s more likely to be stranded due to airline issues. We all have to evaluate risk for ourselves. You can go or stay home as you think right. Advising others to stay home, despite plenty of evidence that people have gone with no problem, seems to be fear mongering.

I didn’t say it’s too risky. I do travel, all the time, internationally.

I said in defense of those that do fear travel, there is some risk, but not in the direction they think. Africa isn’t the issue, Canada and the US are where a likely debacle will occur. Africa needs money desperately, they will not go into lock down or create adverse Covid policies that strand you. North America? Who the hell knows what nonsense they will gin up to distract the populous from scandal of the week.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I flew my own and other bugsmashers in the system for nineteen years. We had a saying and it goes for anything with wings. "Time to spare, take to the air". I've sat on the ground for two days waiting for icing conditions to clear, made numerous diversions to other airports when the weatherman was wrong and had a couple times with mechanical issues. If anyone thinks they're going to book a flight with Airline X and never get delayed by weather, mechanical/computer, ATC or crew issues, they're woefully ignorant of aircraft and flying. Book a flight on your favorite non stop and wind up in East Jabip for a couple days because of the aforementioned issues. Then what do you do? Go to your five pounds of paperwork and try and book on another carrier? Sit around and hope the one you're on has your best interest in mind and your guns make it to their destination? From my vantage point, I'd rather pay the few hundred bucks for an agency to not only smooth the process but to have my back in the event the itinerary goes south. It ties in to another saying we had "If you do this long enough, you'll have a f*LKup of some sort along the way". Usual disclaimer, YMMV.

 

[rookhawk]

@Hogpatrol i agree with you completely. However, the Friday flight from Harare - Lusaka - Dubai outbound on Emirates is pretty darned reliable. It’s the run that Grace Mugabe buys out first class and her security have half of biz class each week along with other diplomats. I suspect its the mail run, dropping off Zim’s wealth in both locations. For whatever reasons whether luck or necessity, that particular flight is fairly reliable.