Member Advisory: Boeing 737 Max 8

[Brent in Az]

Of course - and I am not sure what your point is. I was merely trying to offer context to your "most incidents" comment. I would suggest trying to plan travel around particular aircraft types is somewhat difficult and not very productive. As you say, the wrong plane, train or automobile at the wrong time is the real deciding factor.

Not really trying to make a point. Just being on the wrong plane is something that can't be controlled. I know that all new planes have issues, especially when a new model is developed, and production /delivery schedules are trying to be met. There are always "bugs" to work out, unfortunately those bugs can get people killed.

 

[BRICKBURN]

What plane is the "toyota Land Cruiser" of the sky? I will take that one, thanks.

The Beaver

 

[Ed Hawkins]

The Beaver

+1

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Don't mean to sound like a shill for Boeing - I competed fiercely against them when in the industry and don't particularly like their business model. But in fairness, there are 10,400 + 737's of all variants in service and flying since the late sixties - really skews the statistics - particularly gross numbers. Overall safety rate of all models is 0.28 (fatal events per million miles) which is better than most of the Airbus models. For instance, the roughly comparable Airbus 300 has a safety rating of 0.47 . And the 737 is flown by lots of Third World airlines with questionable maintenance standards. http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/rate_mod.htm

@Redleg ...........you are beginning to sound like an engineer, citing data and what not.


This is an excerpt from Southwest Airlines CEO letter to employees on Wednesday night, regarding the grounding of 737 MAX 8 & 9:

Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly was quick to send an internal memo Wednesday night to the nearly 60,000 employees who work at the low-fare behemoth in the wake of President Donald Trump’s and the Federal Aviation Administration’s abrupt move to ground all Boeing MAX aircraft in the United States.

That was an especially big development with wide-ranging ramifications for Southwest, which, with 34 MAX aircraft, has a larger number of the grounded planes than any other airline in the world.

Kelly’s memo, obtained by the Chicago Business Journal, focused on Kelly’s belief that the Boeing 737 MAX is a safe aircraft.

“Our experience with the MAX, along with the other U.S. operators, has been phenomenal," Kelly said. "We’ve operated over 40,000 flights covering almost 90,000 hours. There is a ton of data collected, which we continuously monitor. In all our analysis since our first flight in 2017, nothing has presented any flight safety concerns. It has been a superb addition to our fleet.”

​

 

[Red Leg]

@Redleg ...........you are beginning to sound like an engineer, citing data and what not.


This is an excerpt from Southwest Airlines CEO letter to employees on Wednesday night, regarding the grounding of 737 MAX 8 & 9:

Southwest Airlines CEO Gary Kelly was quick to send an internal memo Wednesday night to the nearly 60,000 employees who work at the low-fare behemoth in the wake of President Donald Trump’s and the Federal Aviation Administration’s abrupt move to ground all Boeing MAX aircraft in the United States.

That was an especially big development with wide-ranging ramifications for Southwest, which, with 34 MAX aircraft, has a larger number of the grounded planes than any other airline in the world.

Kelly’s memo, obtained by the Chicago Business Journal, focused on Kelly’s belief that the Boeing 737 MAX is a safe aircraft.

“Our experience with the MAX, along with the other U.S. operators, has been phenomenal," Kelly said. "We’ve operated over 40,000 flights covering almost 90,000 hours. There is a ton of data collected, which we continuously monitor. In all our analysis since our first flight in 2017, nothing has presented any flight safety concerns. It has been a superb addition to our fleet.”

​

Wounded to the core.

 

[Wheels]

Seems to be a pattern with Boeing.
.

Sloppiness happens when your allowed to buy out virtually all of your competition.


As a side thought, wonder how many Huawei chips are in the 737-8 and 9

 

[Hogpatrol]

As a side thought, wonder how many Huawei chips are in the 737-8 and 9

You don't even want to know how many rebranded made in China electronics parts are in these aircraft.

 

[Wheels]

You don't even want to know how many rebranded made in China electronics parts are in these aircraft.

When the Huawei CFO was taken into custody in Canada, I didn't know anything about the company. The hard-nosed way China responded in wanting her back, made me do a little research. They are SCARY! The ramifications, enormous. Fortunately Huawei and China are being confronted with many of these issues now. It is criminal what has been allowed to go on during the past two administrations, and especially in the last administration. If there is a second Trump term, we may start getting to the bottom of the problem and get systems and supply chains secure again. If not.......

 

[PARA45]

I read today that one of the pilots from the last accident barely had 200 hrs of flying time. Scary!

"In the Ethiopian Airlines crash this week, one of the pilots had just 200 hours of flight time, less than a seventh of the time the F.A.A. generally requires to fly a passenger plane."

 

[Wheels]

I read today that one of the pilots from the last accident barely had 200 hrs of flying time. Scary!

"In the Ethiopian Airlines crash this week, one of the pilots had just 200 hours of flight time, less than a seventh of the time the F.A.A. generally requires to fly a passenger plane."

Do you have a source for that information?

Could it possibly be 200 hours as a co-pilot / Captain in a 737/8? It seems the initial response to the accident would be completely different if a pilot had those hours. Also don't think anything like that would happen even in Africa.

 

[Brent in Az]

The world is still wondering about Malaysia flight 370. Lots of conspiracy over that one.

 

[sestoppelman]

Every builder of planes in the world has had some crashes. I don't profess to know who has the most, but if its Boeing its likely because they have so many planes in the air at any given time. Is this new Max a problem plane? Who knows? I can pretty much guarantee that no one on this forum knows. Time will tell if its a plane issue or a pilot issue. Bashing Boeing seems a little bit egregious this early.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Do you have a source for that information?

Could it possibly be 200 hours as a co-pilot / Captain in a 737/8? It seems the initial response to the accident would be completely different if a pilot had those hours. Also don't think anything like that would happen even in Africa.

From Wiki:
The pilot of the plane was 29-year-old Yared Getachew, who had been flying with the airline for ten years and had logged a total of 8,231 flight hours. He had been a Boeing 737 captain since November 2017.[25][26][23] At the time of the accident, he was the youngest captain at the airline.[26] The first officer, Ahmed Nur Mohammod Nur, was a recent graduate from the airline's academy with 200 flight hours logged.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Interesting read.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/business/automated-planes.html

Good grief, haven't we been dumbed down enough?

 

[Wheels]

From Wiki:
The pilot of the plane was 29-year-old Yared Getachew, who had been flying with the airline for ten years and had logged a total of 8,231 flight hours. He had been a Boeing 737 captain since November 2017.[25][26][23] At the time of the accident, he was the youngest captain at the airline.[26] The first officer, Ahmed Nur Mohammod Nur, was a recent graduate from the airline's academy with 200 flight hours logged.

Thanks for the information.

I stand corrected. Private pilot certificate, Instrument flight rules, Commercial pilots certificate, Multi-engine. Hard to believe an individual with a major airline can fly right seat with 200 hours anywhere in the world.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.............. Bashing Boeing seems a little bit egregious this early.

Boeing has taken a bashing in the market. No facts required there.

We all have to wait and see what the results of the investigation are. Black boxes are apparently in Paris.

 

[PARA45]

@Wheels. I tried looking for the news article, and for the life of me I couldn't find it.

 

[Hogpatrol]

@Wheels. I tried looking for the news article, and for the life of me I couldn't find it.

Among others, it's in the NYT article I posted above. I believe he had 200 hours in the 737 but no indication of total time. One can read this numerous places, but the overseas carriers have a shortage of pilots and are putting low time pilots in the right seats of passenger air carriers. Am looking to find out exactly how many hours in all aircraft the right seat guy had.

 

[PARA45]

@Hogpatrol. Yes sir, you are correct, that is where I read it, but couldn't find it. Thank you!

 

[Hogpatrol]

Link to some commentary on the MCAS system by a pilot that has flown this aircraft.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/march/14/faa-grounds-boeing-737-max-fleet