Mauser Purchase

[roverandbrew]

My father recently purchased an 8x57 Mauser from a local auction house for an extremely good price. I feel its in great shape but with limited markings other than serial number "8461" and "Mod 98" I am curious if any one would have any additional information based off its build.

 

[WAB]

Did he happen to get the scope mounts with it?

 

[Red Leg]

With the claw mounts, it is almost certainly of German construction. With no maker or shop's name on the barrel, it is what is called a "guild gun." These are fairly common among all sorts of different firearms to include mauser actioned rifles. The term simply means it was built by an individual craftsman.

This one appears to have been assembled around a pure military action and barrel. It looks like a pretty good restocking job, and of course the mounts are a nice addition. Though I have never seen a front claw installed with such a large cap over the chamber. The original scope must have sat very high, which is why the military flag safety was retained. The only other obvious changes are a bit of shaping to the bolt and new open sights.

I am interested to hear other opinions about when it was built. The claw mounts and lack of scope would argue it may have been a thirties era rifle that was "liberated" by a GI and brought home. The scopes were normally kept in a separate leather scope carrier and were inevitably missed when the rifles were "freed" from Nazi tyranny. However, I have never seen a pre-war rifle with a military stepped barrel.

That leads to option number two which would argue for a rifle built during the occupation for a serviceman. There are many of those around, but I have rarely seen one with claw mounts. And had one been so built, in all likelihood, the scope would still be attached.

A mystery.

With the military livery, it is almost certainly a JS with a .323 bore size. But there is always the chance that it was made from an earlier rifle with the .318 bore. Have a gunsmith measure it for you while checking over the rifle.

JJ Perodeau can build you a set of rings to fit those bases.

 

[roverandbrew]

Did he happen to get the scope mounts with it?

He did not. He was all in at $300 so he figured he could find some online or have a set made.

 

[roverandbrew]

With the claw mounts, it is almost certainly of German construction. With no maker or shop's name on the barrel, it is what is called a "guild gun." These are fairly common among all sorts of different firearms to include mauser actioned rifles. The term simply means it was built by an individual craftsman.

This one appears to have been assembled around a pure military action and barrel. It looks like a pretty good restocking job, and of course the mounts are a nice addition. Though I have never seen a front claw installed with such a large cap over the chamber. The original scope must have sat very high, which is why the military flag safety was retained. The only other obvious changes are a bit of shaping to the bolt and new open sights.

I am interested to hear other opinions about when it was built. The claw mounts and lack of scope would argue it may have been a thirties era rifle that was "liberated" by a GI and brought home. The scopes were normally kept in a separate leather scope carrier and were inevitably missed when the rifles were "freed" from Nazi tyranny. However, I have never seen a pre-war rifle with a military stepped barrel.

That leads to option number two which would argue for a rifle built during the occupation for a serviceman. There are many of those around, but I have rarely seen one with claw mounts. And had one been so built, in all likelihood, the scope would still be attached.

A mystery.

With the military livery, it is almost certainly a JS with a .323 bore size. But there is always the chance that it was made from an earlier rifle with the .318 bore. Have a gunsmith measure it for you while checking over the rifle.

JJ Perodeau can build you a set of rings to fit those bases.

I truly appreciate the insight. I will check on the rings. He knew I was looking for a mauser to convert to 9.6x62. I am not sure if this is the right project rifle.

 

[WAB]

It looks to be a solid rifle but you are going to be shocked at the cost of fitting claw mounts to it.

 

[roverandbrew]

It looks to be a solid rifle but you are going to be shocked at the cost of fitting claw mounts to it.

Looks like $1000. That is rough.

 

[WAB]

Looks like $1000. That is rough.

That’s assuming the bases are standard and can be re-used. I have a lovely little pre-war ‘98 in 8x57JS that I am sorely tempted to have mounts fitted to. Unfortunately the bases are not a standard size and would have to be replaced. The estimate for that work is $1,200. I am sorely tempted as it is such a nice weapon, praying for restraint! [emoji41]

 

[Red Leg]

That’s assuming the bases are standard and can be re-used. I have a lovely little pre-war ‘98 in 8x57JS that I am sorely tempted to have mounts fitted to. Unfortunately the bases are not a standard size and would have to be replaced. The estimate for that work is $1,200. I am sorely tempted as it is such a nice weapon, praying for restraint! [emoji41]

Have you spoken to JJ about that rifle? He has fitted rings for me to odd sizes and even a single rear claw for a Schoenauer.

 

[318AE]

With the claw mounts, it is almost certainly of German construction. With no maker or shop's name on the barrel, it is what is called a "guild gun." These are fairly common among all sorts of different firearms to include mauser actioned rifles. The term simply means it was built by an individual craftsman.

This one appears to have been assembled around a pure military action and barrel. It looks like a pretty good restocking job, and of course the mounts are a nice addition. Though I have never seen a front claw installed with such a large cap over the chamber. The original scope must have sat very high, which is why the military flag safety was retained. The only other obvious changes are a bit of shaping to the bolt and new open sights.

I am interested to hear other opinions about when it was built. The claw mounts and lack of scope would argue it may have been a thirties era rifle that was "liberated" by a GI and brought home. The scopes were normally kept in a separate leather scope carrier and were inevitably missed when the rifles were "freed" from Nazi tyranny. However, I have never seen a pre-war rifle with a military stepped barrel.

That leads to option number two which would argue for a rifle built during the occupation for a serviceman. There are many of those around, but I have rarely seen one with claw mounts. And had one been so built, in all likelihood, the scope would still be attached.

A mystery.

With the military livery, it is almost certainly a JS with a .323 bore size. But there is always the chance that it was made from an earlier rifle with the .318 bore. Have a gunsmith measure it for you while checking over the rifle.

JJ Perodeau can build you a set of rings to fit those bases.

Great little rifle and a heck of deal.
The bottom metal (locking screws, magazine floor plate release, trigger guard) all look military to my eye. A pre-war guild rifle may have non-locking screws, a lever release, and possibly even set triggers etc. My sense is that this is an early post-war rifle.
I understood that the guild rifles were often built by multiple craftsmen in sequence (metal work and stock often done by different craftsmen), not an individual.
I hope it brings years of enjoyment and good shooting…

 

[WAB]

Have you spoken to JJ about that rifle? He has fitted rings for me to odd sizes and even a single rear claw for a Schoenauer.

Good point, I need to give him a call.

 

[Fallschirmjaeger]

My guess is a post war gun trade rifle to be sold to US servicemen stationed in Germany. This was a good source of income for German families who had gunsmithing skills during a time of economic challenge for the German people. They would often take plentiful surplus WWII Mauser rifles and do all matters of augmentation to fit the desires of a would be buyer. These range from very well done to poorly sporterized guns with reshaped military stocks. The lower end were sometimes referred to as cigarette guns, because GIs could trade cigarettes for such items. Cigarettes being a very good commodity on the German black market at the time and could be traded for other goods, food, etc. This one appears to be built by someone with some skills and is very nice. Note the military stepped barrel.

 

[Shootist43]

For $300.00 your dad got a hell of a good deal. I certainly wouldn't mind dealing with the issue of having rings made. A good "smith" like JJ might even know if there are rings available without having to make them.

 

[Red Leg]

For $300.00 your dad got a hell of a good deal. I certainly wouldn't mind dealing with the issue of having rings made. A good "smith" like JJ might even know if there are rings available without having to make them.

All claw rings are individually fitted to each set of bases. Even a new set.

 

[Shootist43]

Red Leg, thanks for that info. I can understand why they must be individually fitted, but are they also always individually made?

 

[Fallschirmjaeger]

I'd say they're machine made but still require fitting.

German Claw Mount Front Ring 1" / 26mm, German Claw Mount | New England Custom Gun Service, Ltd.

"Each rings comes with a semi-fit front base plate. Gunsmithing required."

 

[Red Leg]

Red Leg, thanks for that info. I can understand why they must be individually fitted, but are they also always individually made?

He has one-inch and 30 mm rings with uncut bases on the rings that are filed to fit the individual mount. Normally, the spacing between the ring hooks and receptacles are relatively standard. But there are exceptions where a complete ring may have to be made.

 

[Dirtdart]

This may sound crude but it works if you are in doubt as to bore size. A single lead pellet from a 00 buck shot shell will be approximately .330 in diameter and can be pushed through the bore of an 8mm rifle. The rod used needs to be stiff as it will take a little persuasion. The pellet MUST be pure lead and you need an accurate caliper to measure it after it passes through.

 

[PerH]

Have a look here, he get a piece of picwtinny rail altered to suit the claw base so he can use other optic on his drilling .

 

[Red Leg]

Have a look here, he get a piece of picwtinny rail altered to suit the claw base so he can use other optic on his drilling .

That is so coyote ugly it is bordering desecration!