M70 Safari in 416 Rem Mag

[CTDolan]

Oh yeah, definitely, I will! I've already got a box of 400 grain Nosler Partition bullets, and a box of 400 grain Hornady DGS.

 

[CTDolan]

These two happened to be in my pocket!

 

[gordon-kruger]

I never had any .416 that shooting well with the 400 gr Partition, same as Speer Mag Tip 350 gr. Barnes solids and Hornady RN 400 gr shooting half the size of the groups.... But perhaps depend from rifle to rifle.

Photo: NF 400 gr SS and CUP.

80 yards 3 SS and 1 CUP.

0,5 MOA (14mm)

 

[gordon-kruger]

Hornady 400 gr RN, 80 m.
0,87"

 

[gordon-kruger]

Gordon,

Beretta shotguns are indeed excellent and the lower grades are not horribly expensive, considering how finely made they are.
I would hope Dakota's quality control is tip top for the rifle prices they charge.
Yes, I agree that the Germans had it totally figured out over 100 years ago(!), with the Model 98 Mauser, IMO the best of the best in repeaters to this day.
Any repeater after that, including the Winchester Model 70 and CZ Model 550 are just short cuts in manufacturing ideas, to save the manufacturers some money and therefore, they will never be as desirable as the Model 98, at least not for me personally.

A few years ago and only briefly, The Mauserwerke produced a limited run of true Magnum Model 98 Square Bridge rifles, most of them seem to have been in .416 Rigby but, some were in .375 H&H and .458 Lott.
Sadly, they often sell for around ten thousand US dollars, second hand these days - if you can even find one.
The best Model 98's being made new today (again in my tin pot opinion) are from: www.dorleac_dorleac in France.
They are functionally and traditionally stunning, to say the least.

As for double rifles (and double shotguns), I have never seen better than the Westley Richards Drop-Lock models.
Certainly the other English classic "one at a time" builders, as well as some few German, Italian and French, make very fine double rifles.
Beretta makes to order (or at least recently made to order) very fine double rifles, at least up to and including in .500 NE, wonderful looking as well as highly functional.
In fact the Belgians are so good at it that a double rifle from makers such as Marcel Thys, in their Best Grade would make anyone proud to own, including the very wealthy (that's the only people who can afford such a rifle or shotgun anyway LOL).
There are others of course.

Well anyway, I have rambled on too long and so will quit here.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Velo,
Regarding the German way to produce most things with a combination of old craftsmanship, precise work and steel quality I put them on the top of the list when it's comes to rifles, I can not see any barrels that will shoot better than Luthar Walter, or any rifle that have the perfection in balance and precision and exactly trigger pressure as a classic Mannlicher Luxus, furthermore all small custom rifle builders in Ferlach etc... Even Rigby is 100 % German...

I'm not so found of Germans in general, but they can build some great rifles !!

 

[Mannlicher]

....., or any rifle that have the perfection in balance and precision and exactly trigger pressure as a classic Mannlicher Luxus, furthermore all small custom rifle builders in Ferlach etc...

Gordon, I can tell you, Steyr and Ferlach are not situated in Germany - these are Austrian towns !

Mannlicher

 

[gordon-kruger]

This days yes, but I read that many of the master gunsmiths in Ferlach is original from Germany and the first production was started 500 years ago... Furthermore was Ferdinand von Mannlicher from Mainz in Germany, even if the factory was created during the Hungarian/Austrian epoch, hope I'm correct..

Anyhow great smooth rifles.

 

[Mannlicher]

This days yes, but I read that many of the master gunsmiths in Ferlach is original from Germany and the first production was started 500 years ago... .

The time is right, but the first gunsmiths were coming from the Netherlands .....

Mannlicher

 

[gordon-kruger]

Interesting, thanks for info.

 

[Velo Dog]

The problem for me is that I like almost all of them.
My wife is to have something like this put on my headstone after I croak:
"I spent most of my money on proper rifles and hunting safaris, the rest I just wasted"

 

[matt85]

some loads i use:

- a 400gr Swift A-frame over 74.5gr of IMR 4064
- a 350gr Speer Hot-Cor over 79gr of IMR 4064
- a 300gr Barnes TSX over 81.5gr of H4895

-matt

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

some loads i use:

- a 400gr Swift A-frame over 74.5gr of IMR 4064
- a 350gr Speer Hot-Cor over 79gr of IMR 4064
- a 300gr Barnes TSX over 81.5gr of H4895

-matt

I'll bet that TSX load is smokin!

 

[matt85]

i chronographed the 300gr TSX at just under 2700 fps. this load will be going to Africa with me in May for PG hunting.

the 400gr A-frame load is just under 2300 fps and the Speer load is just under 2500 fps.

all loads are around 1 MOA at 100 yards from a Winchester M70 in 416 RM. you could probably push each load another 100 fps but these gave the best accuracy. given that a 400gr 41 cal bullet at 2050 fps will kill anything, im pretty sure a 400gr 42 cal bullet at 2270 +/- 20 fps is plenty powerful enough.

-matt

 

[gordon-kruger]

That's similar to my Taylor, I got a average velocity of 2314 fps with the 400 gr North Fork on a day with temperatures around 25 degrees Celsius, no high pressure signs.

69 gr of Vihtavuori N540 powder, Federal 215 Large Magnum Primer, Norma 416 Taylor case.

 

[bassasdaindia]

I'm getting 2300fps with swift A frame 350g , MOA at 100m and as far as I am concerned perfect for the African bush.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

That's similar to my Taylor, I got a average velocity of 2314 fps with the 400 gr North Fork on a day with temperatures around 25 degrees Celsius, no high pressure signs.

69 gr of Vihtavuori N540 powder, Federal 215 Large Magnum Primer, Norma 416 Taylor case.

View attachment 40205

Can't imagine that load ever letting you down. The grooves on the NF's do their job keeping pressure down from what I've seen.

 

[sierraone]

You are welcome to come visit sometime after I'm back home. I'm just about to go have breakfast and then one small flight and I'll be hunting and somewhat out of touch. But your welcome to come up to the range this summer and shoot my M70 416 rem mag, and hopefully by the time I get home I'll have two 416 rigby RSM's. Got lots of cheap ammo for the rem mag and I need to intall a different scope so come on up and help me sight her in, just cost you time and gas. You can shoot the Ruger guide gun also but it is a 375, still should be able to get a good feel for it.

From what I see, the M70 416 is just the 375 H&H version with about a half pound less metal in the barrel. It is a bit livelier than the 375 but a real nice gun to shoot in my opinion. And flawless action. And you can load 4 with one chambered. When hunting I was glad to be missing that half pound!

When I took it elephant hunting, sighting in the PH was watching through his binos and after 2 shots he said, "hell the holes are touching, let's go hunting!"

If @matt85 sends me some reloads, or I manage to bring enough home, we can shoot the 505's as well, then the recoil of the 416 goes down

And I need to go break in a 458 Lott that is home waiting. It would be great to have an AH guy or two come up to Brainerd to shoot some big bores!

So the invitation is out there... But if you order a M70 in 416 rem mag, you won't be making a mistake. I ordered mine and had it in 4 or 5 days. They were in stock at a couple distributors.

Pick a date after you return and rest up, and we'll see what happens!

 

[CTDolan]

some loads i use:

- a 400gr Swift A-frame over 74.5gr of IMR 4064
- a 350gr Speer Hot-Cor over 79gr of IMR 4064
- a 300gr Barnes TSX over 81.5gr of H4895

-matt

Matt, thanks for sharing your loads.

It's nice to know another disciplined loader. Most seem to load balls to the walls and take the whatever accuracy is given.

 

[colorado]

Not me, I backed off my 500 Jeffery loads to a 570g TSX at 2300 fps, though Mike on AR says I'm loading 200 fps too slow. My shoulder says NOT!

 

[gordon-kruger]

.... Colorado, a 570 gr bullet at 2300 fps would be more than enough for even a 65 ton dinosaur (Deadnoughtus schrani) !!