M70 Safari in 416 Rem Mag

[CTDolan]

Very familiar with the Dakota rifles.
Yes they are essentially a large Model 70 Winchester but way over-priced IMO.
And they left that bolt handle swept back which is not to my liking on a hard recoiler.
A lot of guys will kick me in the shins for this but I prefer the CZ 550 Magnum over the Dakota.
For a little over a grand in a CZ, you often end up with a shootable rifle.
Now and then one shows up that does not feed.
Then even with Gunsmithing needed to fix it (plus some cosmetic Gunsmithing if you are OCD like me) you end up with a better looking rifle than the Dakota and less than half the money invested.
The one CZ I have that failed me in this way is my .500 Jeffery.
My several others worked fine from the beginning.
Now I have about 4K in the .500 - half the price of a Dakota.
I don't even think Dakotas are available in .500 Jeffery anyway.
And my bolt handle is where it should be, not pointed at my knuckle LOL.

Velo, I've thought of a CZ (kevlar stock), and of sending it straight to AGR for their basic package (new bolt handle, new trigger, 3-position safety), with a barrel band and a trim to 23". But, with Winchester I pretty much get the same, in my price range and up front.

I've also thought of a MRC in 505 Gibbs (the Gibbs is positively magical) but, after all that Matt went through (not to mention, cost...the rifle, and each pull of the trigger), I've since dropped the idea. Some day, yes, but not now.

 

[gordon-kruger]

I think that rifle would be around 15 thousand if you order it, so not bad price.... Anyhow the 416 Dakota as caliber is not bad at all, sending a 410 gr Woodleigh solid or SN at 2500 fps.

Also Dakota's classical line, CFA etc. make it to a excellent rifle for DG in Africa.

Simple calculation, do not shot that sable on your next hunt, and instead put the money on the rifle.... ...

 

[Velo Dog]

My continuing 2 centavos worth is:

1. I think today's Model 70 is a good rifle for Africa and very affordable.
2. But, I feel the CZ is a better rifle for my taste (not necessarily a "better" rifle for everyone) and very affordable.
3. The Dakota is a very fine rifle (I'd like to have one in .404 Jeffery) however it costs about two or three times what it should cost (three to five thousand US dollars, according to the grade of walnut, seems more in line for a fancy / magnum size Model 70, which IMO is simply what they are, not a bad thing to be but in this case, waaay over-priced.
4. Not many years ago, I examined a "Model 70 African" in .458 Winchester, from Winchester's Custom Shop, with premium/fancy grained walnut, drop box, rust blue, ebony forend tip, steel grip cap, blah, blah, blah and the price was $5,000.US dollars, brand new in the box (I went back to the store several times to agonize over whether or not to put a down payment on it, until it finally sold to someone else - thankfully).
5. Until today, I was under the impression Dakotas started "only" around $10,000. new and used around $8,000. but, the price Gordon-Kruger posted of $15,000. is far too crazy for me, because I have yet to see a bolt action rifle of any sort, including any "Best Grade" English maker bolt action I'd pay $15,000. for, not a chance.
6. If I ever have $15,000. in my pocket to spend on a rifle, I definitely would be looking at doubles only, hell for $10,000. I'd still probably only look at doubles.

 

[gordon-kruger]

Sounds realistic Velo, I think that the quality inspection at Dakota is higher that other American rifle builders, but you know how it it is, when it's comes to rifles no one in history is better than the Germans.... same as the Britts and a couple of Italians when it's comes to shotguns.

What I mean with prices, instead of pass that 10.000 dollar sable during next hunt the man would have a unique rifle for lifetime

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Sounds realistic Velo, I think that the quality inspection at Dakota is higher that other American rifle builders, but you know how it it is, when it's comes to rifles no one in history is better than the Germans.... same as the Britts and a couple of Italians when it's comes to shotguns.

What I mean with prices, instead of pass that 10.000 dollar sable during next hunt the man would have a unique rifle for lifetime

All things considered I'd rather have the sable and have a trophy of a lifetime. Appreciate a fine rifle, but I treasure the hunt.

 

[bassasdaindia]

OP good luck with the purchase of your Win M70 IN 416 Rem , you will not be disappointed !

 

[ActionBob]

I bought my M70 416 rem mag for about $1200 and shot elephant and buffalo with it. Fine reliable rifle that shoots great.

 

[CTDolan]

If you can't afford to go with what's fancy (I cannot), at least go with what's reliable!

 

[Velo Dog]

Sounds realistic Velo, I think that the quality inspection at Dakota is higher that other American rifle builders, but you know how it it is, when it's comes to rifles no one in history is better than the Germans.... same as the Britts and a couple of Italians when it's comes to shotguns.

What I mean with prices, instead of pass that 10.000 dollar sable during next hunt the man would have a unique rifle for lifetime

Gordon,

Beretta shotguns are indeed excellent and the lower grades are not horribly expensive, considering how finely made they are.
I would hope Dakota's quality control is tip top for the rifle prices they charge.
Yes, I agree that the Germans had it totally figured out over 100 years ago(!), with the Model 98 Mauser, IMO the best of the best in repeaters to this day.
Any repeater after that, including the Winchester Model 70 and CZ Model 550 are just short cuts in manufacturing ideas, to save the manufacturers some money and therefore, they will never be as desirable as the Model 98, at least not for me personally.

A few years ago and only briefly, The Mauserwerke produced a limited run of true Magnum Model 98 Square Bridge rifles, most of them seem to have been in .416 Rigby but, some were in .375 H&H and .458 Lott.
Sadly, they often sell for around ten thousand US dollars, second hand these days - if you can even find one.
The best Model 98's being made new today (again in my tin pot opinion) are from: www.dorleac_dorleac in France.
They are functionally and traditionally stunning, to say the least.

As for double rifles (and double shotguns), I have never seen better than the Westley Richards Drop-Lock models.
Certainly the other English classic "one at a time" builders, as well as some few German, Italian and French, make very fine double rifles.
Beretta makes to order (or at least recently made to order) very fine double rifles, at least up to and including in .500 NE, wonderful looking as well as highly functional.
In fact the Belgians are so good at it that a double rifle from makers such as Marcel Thys, in their Best Grade would make anyone proud to own, including the very wealthy (that's the only people who can afford such a rifle or shotgun anyway LOL).
There are others of course.

Well anyway, I have rambled on too long and so will quit here.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Cliffy]

Just a little off subject but 2 years ago I was offered a once used upgraded Blaser Double in 470 for $8500. Still thinking I should have bought it.

 

[CTDolan]

Just a little off subject but 2 years ago I was offered a once used upgraded Blaser Double in 470 for $8500. Still thinking I should have bought it.

Sounds like the time I saw a Purdey, from the golden age of gun making (the best years), listed at $10,000. I've regretted not buying the piece ever since (would've been a major stretch, but worth it).

 

[CTDolan]

Gordon,

Beretta shotguns are indeed excellent and the lower grades are not horribly expensive, considering how finely made they are.
I would hope Dakota's quality control is tip top for the rifle prices they charge.
Yes, I agree that the Germans had it totally figured out over 100 years ago(!), with the Model 98 Mauser, IMO the best of the best in repeaters to this day.
Any repeater after that, including the Winchester Model 70 and CZ Model 550 are just short cuts in manufacturing ideas, to save the manufacturers some money and therefore, they will never be as desirable as the Model 98, at least not for me personally.

A few years ago and only briefly, The Mauserwerke produced a limited run of true Magnum Model 98 Square Bridge rifles, most of them seem to have been in .416 Rigby but, some were in .375 H&H and .458 Lott.
Sadly, they often sell for around ten thousand US dollars, second hand these days - if you can even find one.
The best Model 98's being made new today (again in my tin pot opinion) are from: www.dorleac_dorleac in France.
They are functionally and traditionally stunning, to say the least.

As for double rifles (and double shotguns), I have never seen better than the Westley Richards Drop-Lock models.
Certainly the other English classic "one at a time" builders, as well as some few German, Italian and French, make very fine double rifles.
Beretta makes to order (or at least recently made to order) very fine double rifles, at least up to and including in .500 NE, wonderful looking as well as highly functional.
In fact the Belgians are so good at it that a double rifle from makers such as Marcel Thys, in their Best Grade would make anyone proud to own, including the very wealthy (that's the only people who can afford such a rifle or shotgun anyway LOL).
There are others of course.

Well anyway, I have rambled on too long and so will quit here.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

Velo, your words are dead on.

The only thing I'd add is that, while a Westley Richards drop-lock is ideal for the field (IDEAL!!!), a best from Purdey (SxS) or Boss & Co. (O/U) is the pinnacle of the art (or, anything by Hartmann & Weiss).

 

[CTDolan]

I'm also extraordinarily fond of early-mid 19th century English guns, but from a workmanship + mechanical design perspective, nothing beats a Beesley self-opener or Boss over-under.

 

[CTDolan]

 

[ActionBob]

Well, after an enormous amount of consideration, I've decided that my next rifle is going to be a Model 70 (of new manufacture) in 416 Remington Magnum.

For a while I was sweet on the 416 Ruger, but it comes up just a bit shy on case capacity (enough, perhaps, but barely). Then I was hot on the 416 Rigby but, seeing how I've never been much of a fan of CZ, the chambering comes at a dear price (the Ruger RSM being next in line, and while some surface at $1750-$2000, it's a rifle with regard to which I've never been terribly exited...it's the Ruger aesthetic, I suppose, trying its best to come off as British...although, that said, a re-do to 505 Gibbs would certainly pique my interest...people are irrational beings, if nothing else, no doubt).

Anyway, hearing all the good I have regarding the new Winchester rifles, and being a fan of Remington's 416 (a hammer with some reach), the verdict is now final. With all hope, come late summer, I'll already have sent a few down range.

You are welcome to come visit sometime after I'm back home. I'm just about to go have breakfast and then one small flight and I'll be hunting and somewhat out of touch. But your welcome to come up to the range this summer and shoot my M70 416 rem mag, and hopefully by the time I get home I'll have two 416 rigby RSM's. Got lots of cheap ammo for the rem mag and I need to intall a different scope so come on up and help me sight her in, just cost you time and gas. You can shoot the Ruger guide gun also but it is a 375, still should be able to get a good feel for it.

From what I see, the M70 416 is just the 375 H&H version with about a half pound less metal in the barrel. It is a bit livelier than the 375 but a real nice gun to shoot in my opinion. And flawless action. And you can load 4 with one chambered. When hunting I was glad to be missing that half pound!

When I took it elephant hunting, sighting in the PH was watching through his binos and after 2 shots he said, "hell the holes are touching, let's go hunting!"

If @matt85 sends me some reloads, or I manage to bring enough home, we can shoot the 505's as well, then the recoil of the 416 goes down

And I need to go break in a 458 Lott that is home waiting. It would be great to have an AH guy or two come up to Brainerd to shoot some big bores!

So the invitation is out there... But if you order a M70 in 416 rem mag, you won't be making a mistake. I ordered mine and had it in 4 or 5 days. They were in stock at a couple distributors.

 

[ActionBob]

Don't know what I screwed up posting that quote? I blame it on this tablet.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo, your words are dead on.

The only thing I'd add is that, while a Westley Richards drop-lock is ideal for the field (IDEAL!!!), a best from Purdey (SxS) or Boss & Co. (O/U) is the pinnacle of the art (or, anything by Hartmann & Weiss).

And many would argue that Holland & Holland best grade are the finest of the fine.

All makers that you and I have mentioned are incredible for sure.

(Incidentally, Bing Crosby supposedly owned a Purdy 28 gauge shotgun for quail and grouse hunting).

However, even if I were swimming in money, I would still favor WR doubles, especially their Drop Lock models, whether rifle or shotgun, either one.

One man's bread is another man's poison I guess.

 

[CTDolan]

You are welcome to come visit sometime after I'm back home. I'm just about to go have breakfast and then one small flight and I'll be hunting and somewhat out of touch. But your welcome to come up to the range this summer and shoot my M70 416 rem mag, and hopefully by the time I get home I'll have two 416 rigby RSM's. Got lots of cheap ammo for the rem mag and I need to intall a different scope so come on up and help me sight her in, just cost you time and gas. You can shoot the Ruger guide gun also but it is a 375, still should be able to get a good feel for it.

From what I see, the M70 416 is just the 375 H&H version with about a half pound less metal in the barrel. It is a bit livelier than the 375 but a real nice gun to shoot in my opinion. And flawless action. And you can load 4 with one chambered. When hunting I was glad to be missing that half pound!

When I took it elephant hunting, sighting in the PH was watching through his binos and after 2 shots he said, "hell the holes are touching, let's go hunting!"

If @matt85 sends me some reloads, or I manage to bring enough home, we can shoot the 505's as well, then the recoil of the 416 goes down

And I need to go break in a 458 Lott that is home waiting. It would be great to have an AH guy or two come up to Brainerd to shoot some big bores!

So the invitation is out there... But if you order a M70 in 416 rem mag, you won't be making a mistake. I ordered mine and had it in 4 or 5 days. They were in stock at a couple distributors.

ActionBob, the offer is quite generous and I've a selection of ammo for each cartridge mentioned, including the 505. Yes, we should find a way to make this happen!

 

[CTDolan]

Just arrived...$50 from Selway (last box they had at that price).

 

[matt85]

$50 isnt bad for a box of factory ammo!

however, i suggest you start rolling you own. hand loading cuts down on cost big time and you can customize your loads to match your rifle.

-matt