M70 Safari Express 458 Win Mag vs CZ550 458 Lott

[WAB]

The rifle on the left is a Model 70 in .458 Lott. The rifle in the middle is a CZ in .458 Lott. The CZ is an AHR job. Both stocked by LeRoy Barry. Both outstanding rifles.

 

[One Day...]

I am going to try to stay away from the "I like" this or that rifle argument, which is a purely subjective feeling, and look instead at a few objective data points...

1) The Win 70 has a true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This is a plus. The Factory CZ 550 has a sear blocking safety. This is a minus. The CZ is easily retrofitted with a $250 Winchester type "3 position" bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This cures the minus. You can do it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at American Hunting Rifles (AHR) can do it even better for you.

2) The CZ 550 has integral scope mount dovetails on the front and rear bridge. These are indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 needs scope bases to be screwed on the gun action. Look at it anyway you want, these are not as strong as integral bases and sooner or later they will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Admittedly if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, as the vast majority are, this is not a problem. If you shoot it a 100 rounds per year, be ready to rework the bases every few years.

3) The CZ 550 has an integral machined dovetail in the barrel for the rear sight block. This is indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on rear sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as an integral dovetailed rear sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Again, if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, this is not a problem.

4) The CZ 550 has a barrel band front sight. This is quasi indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on front sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as a barrel band front sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus can be cured by adding a $250 barrel band front sight.

5) The CZ 550 has a 5+1 capacity in .458. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a 3+1. This is a minus. Truth be told, it is probably not as big an advantage for a client as it can be for a PH, but it is an unarguable minus for the Win 70. This minus cannot be cured short of extensive and expensive restocking, new bottom metal work etc.

6) The CZ 550 is a true Magnum length action. This is a plus and what allows it to be chambered for the Rigby and other large cartridges. The Win 70 is not. This cannot be fixed. Admittedly this is not an issue for the .458 Lott unless you intend to have hand loads that exceed commercial overall length for the cartridge. These will not fit in a Win 70.

7) Regarding feeding: there are occasional feeding issues with .458 Win conversions to Lott, because the cartridge length changes and ramps optimized for the short cartridge are difficult to modify for the long cartridge. There are also occasional feeding issues with .458 Win because of the short cartridge length makes it difficult to feed, especially with the heavy flat nose 500 g slugs. I have never seen (so far) .458 Lott feeding issue from a factory rifle (the additional cartridge length helps a lot), and I have not seen (so far) any feeding issue with any CZ factory rifle. Admittedly my statistical population is counted in tens, not hundreds or thousands... The CZ feeding issues DO exist, but invariably they are traced to "custom" rifles, a large number of which being the .500 put together by the CZ custom shop in the US... From there the rumor has been spreading far and wide, thanks to the magical internet and its endless legion of "experts"...


Arguably, the CZ 550 with the addition of a $250 true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety offers numerous advantages over the Win 70, including some that cannot be matched even on a re-worked Win 70: integral scope bases, integral rear sight dovetail, and 5+1 capacity. To me the discussion stops there.

I had in succession two ZKK 602 (.375 H&H and .340 Wby) and one CZ 550 (.416 Rigby) and they are everything a DG rifle can be (cosmetics of a $xx,xxx custom rifle aside).

Yes, the CZ 550 is a tad rough off the factory but truly it is a 4 hour affair to make it as slick as a $40,000 Rigby built on the same action. Hint: there is a pretty darn good reason why Rigby used CZ action to built their rifles during the long period when Mauser true Magnum length actions were not available... You can slick it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at AHR can do it even better for you. Alternatively, watch a movie on TV while cycling the action 10,000 times and it will be smooth as baby skin.

There is also a pretty darn good reason why Brno ZKK and CZ 550 are the workhorses of Africa. They are just plain indestructible, especially if you add a $280 Bell & Carlson synthetic stock with full length aluminum bedding block and pillars. Another hint: B&C are the ones who makes the factory CZ "aramid" stock...

All this being said, the imperfect rifle you like and trust is better for you than the perfect rifle you do not like, so to each his own...

 

[bassasdaindia]

I am going to try to stay away from the "I like" this or that rifle argument, which is a purely subjective feeling, and look instead at a few objective data points...

1) The Win 70 has a true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This is a plus. The Factory CZ 550 has a sear blocking safety. This is a minus. The CZ is easily retrofitted with a $250 Winchester type "3 position" bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This cures the minus. You can do it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at American Hunting Rifles (AHR) can do it even better for you.

2) The CZ 550 has integral scope mount dovetails on the front and rear bridge. These are indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 needs scope bases to be screwed on the gun action. Look at it anyway you want, these are not as strong as integral bases and sooner or later they will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Admittedly if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, as the vast majority are, this is not a problem. If you shoot it a 100 rounds per year, be ready to rework the bases every few years.

3) The CZ 550 has an integral machined dovetail in the barrel for the rear sight block. This is indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on rear sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as an integral dovetailed rear sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Again, if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, this is not a problem.

4) The CZ 550 has a barrel band front sight. This is quasi indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on front sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as a barrel band front sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus can be cured by adding a $250 barrel band front sight.

5) The CZ 550 has a 5+1 capacity in .458. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a 3+1. This is a minus. Truth be told, it is probably not as big an advantage for a client as it can be for a PH, but it is an unarguable minus for the Win 70. This minus cannot be cured short of extensive and expensive restocking, new bottom metal work etc.

6) The CZ 550 is a true Magnum length action. This is a plus and what allows it to be chambered for the Rigby and other large cartridges. The Win 70 is not. This cannot be fixed. Admittedly this is not an issue for the .458 Lott unless you intend to have hand loads that exceed commercial overall length for the cartridge. These will not fit in a Win 70.

7) Regarding feeding: there are occasional feeding issues with .458 Win conversions to Lott, because the cartridge length changes and ramps optimized for the short cartridge are difficult to modify for the long cartridge. There are also occasional feeding issues with .458 Win because of the short cartridge length makes it difficult to feed, especially with the heavy flat nose 500 g slugs. I have never seen (so far) .458 Lott feeding issue from a factory rifle (the additional cartridge length helps a lot), and I have not seen (so far) any feeding issue with any CZ factory rifle. Admittedly my statistical population is counted in tens, not hundreds or thousands... The CZ feeding issues DO exist, but invariably they are traced to "custom" rifles, a large number of which being the .500 put together by the CZ custom shop in the US... From there the rumor has been spreading far and wide, thanks to the magical internet and its endless legion of "experts"...


Arguably, the CZ 550 with the addition of a $250 true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety offers numerous advantages over the Win 70, including some that cannot be matched even on a re-worked Win 70: integral scope bases, integral rear sight dovetail, and 5+1 capacity. To me the discussion stops there.

I had in succession two ZKK 602 (.375 H&H and .340 Wby) and one CZ 550 (.416 Rigby) and they are everything a DG rifle can be (cosmetics of a $xx,xxx custom rifle aside).

Yes, the CZ 550 is a tad rough off the factory but truly it is a 4 hour affair to make it as slick as a $40,000 Rigby built on the same action. Hint: there is a pretty darn good reason why Rigby used CZ action to built their rifles during the long period when Mauser true Magnum length actions were not available... You can slick it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at AHR can do it even better for you. Alternatively, watch a movie on TV while cycling the action 10,000 times and it will be smooth as baby skin.

There is also a pretty darn good reason why Brno ZKK and CZ 550 are the workhorses of Africa. They are just plain indestructible, especially if you add a $280 Bell & Carlson synthetic stock with full length aluminum bedding block and pillars. Another hint: B&C are the ones who makes the factory CZ "aramid" stock...

All this being said, the imperfect rifle you like and trust is better for you than the perfect rifle you do not like, so to each his own...

Very well put , i am in agreement .

 

[bruce moulds]

for my own potential future, I cannot see a real need for anything more than a 416 rem mag, and would probably go there in a win70.
bruce.

 

[One Day...]

for my own potential future, I cannot see a real need for anything more than a 416 rem mag, and would probably go there in a win70.
bruce.

Ah, but the romance of the Rigby

On a more pragmatic note, same ballistics indeed but significantly lower pressure in the Rigby

 

[bruce moulds]

yes but a lot less stress.
buy the m70 and go shooting.
bruce.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I am going to try to stay away from the "I like" this or that rifle argument, which is a purely subjective feeling, and look instead at a few objective data points...

1) The Win 70 has a true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This is a plus. The Factory CZ 550 has a sear blocking safety. This is a minus. The CZ is easily retrofitted with a $250 Winchester type "3 position" bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This cures the minus. You can do it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at American Hunting Rifles (AHR) can do it even better for you.

2) The CZ 550 has integral scope mount dovetails on the front and rear bridge. These are indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 needs scope bases to be screwed on the gun action. Look at it anyway you want, these are not as strong as integral bases and sooner or later they will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Admittedly if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, as the vast majority are, this is not a problem. If you shoot it a 100 rounds per year, be ready to rework the bases every few years.

3) The CZ 550 has an integral machined dovetail in the barrel for the rear sight block. This is indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on rear sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as an integral dovetailed rear sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Again, if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, this is not a problem.

4) The CZ 550 has a barrel band front sight. This is quasi indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on front sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as a barrel band front sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus can be cured by adding a $250 barrel band front sight.

5) The CZ 550 has a 5+1 capacity in .458. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a 3+1. This is a minus. Truth be told, it is probably not as big an advantage for a client as it can be for a PH, but it is an unarguable minus for the Win 70. This minus cannot be cured short of extensive and expensive restocking, new bottom metal work etc.

6) The CZ 550 is a true Magnum length action. This is a plus and what allows it to be chambered for the Rigby and other large cartridges. The Win 70 is not. This cannot be fixed. Admittedly this is not an issue for the .458 Lott unless you intend to have hand loads that exceed commercial overall length for the cartridge. These will not fit in a Win 70.

7) Regarding feeding: there are occasional feeding issues with .458 Win conversions to Lott, because the cartridge length changes and ramps optimized for the short cartridge are difficult to modify for the long cartridge. There are also occasional feeding issues with .458 Win because of the short cartridge length makes it difficult to feed, especially with the heavy flat nose 500 g slugs. I have never seen (so far) .458 Lott feeding issue from a factory rifle (the additional cartridge length helps a lot), and I have not seen (so far) any feeding issue with any CZ factory rifle. Admittedly my statistical population is counted in tens, not hundreds or thousands... The CZ feeding issues DO exist, but invariably they are traced to "custom" rifles, a large number of which being the .500 put together by the CZ custom shop in the US... From there the rumor has been spreading far and wide, thanks to the magical internet and its endless legion of "experts"...


Arguably, the CZ 550 with the addition of a $250 true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety offers numerous advantages over the Win 70, including some that cannot be matched even on a re-worked Win 70: integral scope bases, integral rear sight dovetail, and 5+1 capacity. To me the discussion stops there.

I had in succession two ZKK 602 (.375 H&H and .340 Wby) and one CZ 550 (.416 Rigby) and they are everything a DG rifle can be (cosmetics of a $xx,xxx custom rifle aside).

Yes, the CZ 550 is a tad rough off the factory but truly it is a 4 hour affair to make it as slick as a $40,000 Rigby built on the same action. Hint: there is a pretty darn good reason why Rigby used CZ action to built their rifles during the long period when Mauser true Magnum length actions were not available... You can slick it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at AHR can do it even better for you. Alternatively, watch a movie on TV while cycling the action 10,000 times and it will be smooth as baby skin.

There is also a pretty darn good reason why Brno ZKK and CZ 550 are the workhorses of Africa. They are just plain indestructible, especially if you add a $280 Bell & Carlson synthetic stock with full length aluminum bedding block and pillars. Another hint: B&C are the ones who makes the factory CZ "aramid" stock...

All this being said, the imperfect rifle you like and trust is better for you than the perfect rifle you do not like, so to each his own...

I shot my new CZ 550 .458 WM today for the first time today with open sights at 50yds at the range. It cycled well with factory Barnes 450gr TSXs, although today I wasn't in a speed contest (that's next) as I've never shot a caliber of this size before. Anyway, I had put a little Rem oil on the bolt and slide rails and it performed well. The trigger has a little creep, but I adjusted to it. The recoil wasn't bad as I put a slip on Limbsaver recoil pad over the factory pad. I needed more LOP anyway. But, I was impressed with this CZ 550 Field Grade rifle. Better than I anticipated!

 

[bassasdaindia]

I am going to try to stay away from the "I like" this or that rifle argument, which is a purely subjective feeling, and look instead at a few objective data points...

1) The Win 70 has a true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This is a plus. The Factory CZ 550 has a sear blocking safety. This is a minus. The CZ is easily retrofitted with a $250 Winchester type "3 position" bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This cures the minus. You can do it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at American Hunting Rifles (AHR) can do it even better for you.

2) The CZ 550 has integral scope mount dovetails on the front and rear bridge. These are indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 needs scope bases to be screwed on the gun action. Look at it anyway you want, these are not as strong as integral bases and sooner or later they will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Admittedly if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, as the vast majority are, this is not a problem. If you shoot it a 100 rounds per year, be ready to rework the bases every few years.

3) The CZ 550 has an integral machined dovetail in the barrel for the rear sight block. This is indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on rear sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as an integral dovetailed rear sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Again, if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, this is not a problem.

4) The CZ 550 has a barrel band front sight. This is quasi indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on front sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as a barrel band front sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus can be cured by adding a $250 barrel band front sight.

5) The CZ 550 has a 5+1 capacity in .458. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a 3+1. This is a minus. Truth be told, it is probably not as big an advantage for a client as it can be for a PH, but it is an unarguable minus for the Win 70. This minus cannot be cured short of extensive and expensive restocking, new bottom metal work etc.

6) The CZ 550 is a true Magnum length action. This is a plus and what allows it to be chambered for the Rigby and other large cartridges. The Win 70 is not. This cannot be fixed. Admittedly this is not an issue for the .458 Lott unless you intend to have hand loads that exceed commercial overall length for the cartridge. These will not fit in a Win 70.

7) Regarding feeding: there are occasional feeding issues with .458 Win conversions to Lott, because the cartridge length changes and ramps optimized for the short cartridge are difficult to modify for the long cartridge. There are also occasional feeding issues with .458 Win because of the short cartridge length makes it difficult to feed, especially with the heavy flat nose 500 g slugs. I have never seen (so far) .458 Lott feeding issue from a factory rifle (the additional cartridge length helps a lot), and I have not seen (so far) any feeding issue with any CZ factory rifle. Admittedly my statistical population is counted in tens, not hundreds or thousands... The CZ feeding issues DO exist, but invariably they are traced to "custom" rifles, a large number of which being the .500 put together by the CZ custom shop in the US... From there the rumor has been spreading far and wide, thanks to the magical internet and its endless legion of "experts"...


Arguably, the CZ 550 with the addition of a $250 true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety offers numerous advantages over the Win 70, including some that cannot be matched even on a re-worked Win 70: integral scope bases, integral rear sight dovetail, and 5+1 capacity. To me the discussion stops there.

I had in succession two ZKK 602 (.375 H&H and .340 Wby) and one CZ 550 (.416 Rigby) and they are everything a DG rifle can be (cosmetics of a $xx,xxx custom rifle aside).

Yes, the CZ 550 is a tad rough off the factory but truly it is a 4 hour affair to make it as slick as a $40,000 Rigby built on the same action. Hint: there is a pretty darn good reason why Rigby used CZ action to built their rifles during the long period when Mauser true Magnum length actions were not available... You can slick it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at AHR can do it even better for you. Alternatively, watch a movie on TV while cycling the action 10,000 times and it will be smooth as baby skin.

There is also a pretty darn good reason why Brno ZKK and CZ 550 are the workhorses of Africa. They are just plain indestructible, especially if you add a $280 Bell & Carlson synthetic stock with full length aluminum bedding block and pillars. Another hint: B&C are the ones who makes the factory CZ "aramid" stock...

All this being said, the imperfect rifle you like and trust is better for you than the perfect rifle you do not like, so to each his own...

I would like to add to this that the M70 is a fantastic rifle in the 375 and 416 variants that they come in , however the 458 WM that the M70 is manufactured in is to light for the caliber, I therefore recommend the CZ 550 in .458 Lott with some work performed on it in this case.

 

[One Day...]

I shot my new CZ 550 .458 WM today for the first time ... I was impressed with this CZ 550 Field Grade rifle. Better than I anticipated!

Yes, indeed. It seems fashionable to bash the CZ and to deplore that a CZ must undergo $1,500 surgery at AHR to become worthy, but this is hogwash. CZ are good to go from the box, just as you experienced

This being said, as stated previously I believe that a CZ must be retrofitted with a bolt-mounted firing pin blocking safety to become a safer DG rifle that can be carried fully loaded for long periods of time in rough terrain. Yes, yes, I know the safety is between the hunter's ears, and I too do not trust mechanical safeties, etc. ... but blocking the firing pin is unarguably better than blocking the sear.

This does not make the CZ any less worthy than a Remington 700, a Ruger, a Browning, a Sauer, a Mannlicher, numerous "modern" Mausers, or any number of rifles that also have sear blocking safeties, i.e. do not have a true bolt-mounted safety that blocks the firing pin itself

Congratulation on your new rifle, CoElkHunter, it will likely outlive you . PM me if you want a couple tips for a happy life with your CZ .458 WM.

PS: I too own a Win 70 and love it for PG, so much so that my two sons also shoot Win 70 that I gifted them. But my DG bolt gun is a CZ, for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post and the one mentioned in the above post from bassasdaindia.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Yes, indeed. It seems fashionable to bash the CZ and to deplore that a CZ must undergo $1,500 surgery at AHR to become worthy, but this is hogwash. CZ are good to go from the box, just as you experienced

This being said, I continue to think that a CZ must be retrofitted with a bolt-mounted firing pin blocking safety to become a safer DG rifle that can be carried fully loaded for long periods of time in rough terrain. Yes, yes, I know the safety is between the hunter's ears, and I too do not trust mechanical safeties, etc. ... But this does not make the CZ any less worthy than a Remington 700, a Ruger, a Browning, or any number of rifles that also have sear blocking safeties, i.e. do not have a true safety that blocks the firing pin itself

Congratulation on your new rifle, CoElkHunter, it will likely outlive you

Thank you very much! So far, I have no issues with this "new rifle from the box". It's well built and mechanically sound. But, I'm just beginning to put this rifle through it's paces. Next, will be rapid cycling and firing and MAYBE some dropped rifle tests. It IS a field grade rifle, so it will be subjected to REAL LIFE hunting scenarios and conditions. My Browning A Bolt .338WM was not put through such tests, but I never intended to hunt DG with it. Although, it has never failed me through twenty plus years of non DG hunting. I'm not a bench rest type shooter. That's why this CZ rifle has a Boyt leather military style sling to be able to shoot from a standing or sitting position, using a very stable triangular shooting platform. Unless I purchase a scope for it, I do need to find a larger front pin sight for it, as my eyesight isn't what it used to be. I also need to buy some bi-pod or tri-pod style shooting sticks to practice with, as I guess that's what they shoot from while hunting in Africa. The elk and deer I have hunted in Colorado would be long gone by the time you tried to put up shooting sticks for a shot! Thank you for your response!

 

[WAB]

The Model 70 and the CZ are both excellent rifles. Preferring one doesn’t make the other a poor choice. You cannot go wrong on this decision, you have zeroed in on the two best choices in the price range.

 

[One Day...]

... Unless I purchase a scope for it, I do need to find a larger front pin sight for it, as my eyesight isn't what it used to be. I also need to buy some bi-pod or tri-pod style shooting sticks to practice with...

Ah but you and I are at the same stage in life, the one when the front sight seems to shrink every year

You will find exactly the front sight you need in diameter and height at New England Custom Gun https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/proddetail.php?prod=4839 This is what I put on mine and they are exactly what we need

Regarding sticks, no contest: tripod is what you need, tall enough for shooting standing. There a few threads about this on the forum.

If I may suggest:

A rifle positioned on the sticks toward the middle of the stock will amplify the effect of the body movements on the barrel movements.

Rifle position on shooting sticks

• One Day...
• May 2, 2019

Rifle middle on sticks
This is very fine on a mild recoiling rifle, but I would caution you on...

A rifle positioned on the sticks toward the end of the stock will minimize the effect of the body movements on the barrel movements.

Rifle position on shooting sticks

• One Day...
• May 2, 2019

Rifle forearm on sticks

A rifle positioned on the sticks toward the end of the stock will...

Feet positioned in line the tripod will amplify side to side body sway.

Rifle position on shooting sticks

• One Day...
• May 2, 2019

Wrong feet position for sticks

Feet positioned in line with the tripod will not...

Feet positioned to form a triangle with the tripod will reduce the body sway.

Rifle position on shooting sticks

• One Day...
• May 2, 2019

Right feet position for sticks

Feet positioned to form a triangle with the tripod will reduce...

 

[CoElkHunter]

Ah but you and I are at the same stage in life, the one when the front sight seems to shrink every year

You will find exactly the front sight you need in diameter and height at New England Custom Gun https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/proddetail.php?prod=4839 This is what I put on mine and they are exactly what we need

Regarding sticks, no contest: tripod is what you need, tall enough for shooting standing. There a few threads about this on the forum.

If I may suggest:

A rifle positioned on the sticks toward the middle of the stock will amplify the effect of the body movements on the barrel movements.

Rifle position on shooting sticks

• One Day...
• May 2, 2019

Rifle middle on sticks
This is very fine on a mild recoiling rifle, but I would caution you on...

A rifle positioned on the sticks toward the end of the stock will minimize the effect of the body movements on the barrel movements.

Rifle position on shooting sticks

• One Day...
• May 2, 2019

Rifle forearm on sticks

A rifle positioned on the sticks toward the end of the stock will...

Feet positioned in line the tripod will amplify side to side body sway.

Rifle position on shooting sticks

• One Day...
• May 2, 2019

Wrong feet position for sticks

Feet positioned in line with the tripod will not...

Feet positioned to form a triangle with the tripod will reduce the body sway.

Rifle position on shooting sticks

• One Day...
• May 2, 2019

Right feet position for sticks

Feet positioned to form a triangle with the tripod will reduce...

Thank you VERY much for the above information! I had no idea where to look for the front sights. I really appreciate you and other seasoned African hunters on this AH website sharing their experience and information. I would consider myself a seasoned NA game hunter, but with things being done a little different in Africa, I appreciate the info. Thanks again!

 

[flatwater bill]

One Day..........thanks..............lots of good info in your replies.....................I have seen a lot of CZ rifles that just seemed a bit crude in the fit and finish. May have judged them too harshly.....thanks for posting.....FWB

 

[CoElkHunter]

I am going to try to stay away from the "I like" this or that rifle argument, which is a purely subjective feeling, and look instead at a few objective data points...

1) The Win 70 has a true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This is a plus. The Factory CZ 550 has a sear blocking safety. This is a minus. The CZ is easily retrofitted with a $250 Winchester type "3 position" bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety. This cures the minus. You can do it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at American Hunting Rifles (AHR) can do it even better for you.

2) The CZ 550 has integral scope mount dovetails on the front and rear bridge. These are indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 needs scope bases to be screwed on the gun action. Look at it anyway you want, these are not as strong as integral bases and sooner or later they will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Admittedly if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, as the vast majority are, this is not a problem. If you shoot it a 100 rounds per year, be ready to rework the bases every few years.

3) The CZ 550 has an integral machined dovetail in the barrel for the rear sight block. This is indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on rear sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as an integral dovetailed rear sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus cannot be cured. Again, if your .458 Lott gets shot 10 rounds per year, this is not a problem.

4) The CZ 550 has a barrel band front sight. This is quasi indestructible. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a screwed on front sight base. Look at it anyway you want, this is not as strong as a barrel band front sight and sooner or later it will loosen. This is a minus. This minus can be cured by adding a $250 barrel band front sight.

5) The CZ 550 has a 5+1 capacity in .458. This is a plus. The Win 70 has a 3+1. This is a minus. Truth be told, it is probably not as big an advantage for a client as it can be for a PH, but it is an unarguable minus for the Win 70. This minus cannot be cured short of extensive and expensive restocking, new bottom metal work etc.

6) The CZ 550 is a true Magnum length action. This is a plus and what allows it to be chambered for the Rigby and other large cartridges. The Win 70 is not. This cannot be fixed. Admittedly this is not an issue for the .458 Lott unless you intend to have hand loads that exceed commercial overall length for the cartridge. These will not fit in a Win 70.

7) Regarding feeding: there are occasional feeding issues with .458 Win conversions to Lott, because the cartridge length changes and ramps optimized for the short cartridge are difficult to modify for the long cartridge. There are also occasional feeding issues with .458 Win because of the short cartridge length makes it difficult to feed, especially with the heavy flat nose 500 g slugs. I have never seen (so far) .458 Lott feeding issue from a factory rifle (the additional cartridge length helps a lot), and I have not seen (so far) any feeding issue with any CZ factory rifle. Admittedly my statistical population is counted in tens, not hundreds or thousands... The CZ feeding issues DO exist, but invariably they are traced to "custom" rifles, a large number of which being the .500 put together by the CZ custom shop in the US... From there the rumor has been spreading far and wide, thanks to the magical internet and its endless legion of "experts"...


Arguably, the CZ 550 with the addition of a $250 true bolt-mounted firing-pin blocking safety offers numerous advantages over the Win 70, including some that cannot be matched even on a re-worked Win 70: integral scope bases, integral rear sight dovetail, and 5+1 capacity. To me the discussion stops there.

I had in succession two ZKK 602 (.375 H&H and .340 Wby) and one CZ 550 (.416 Rigby) and they are everything a DG rifle can be (cosmetics of a $xx,xxx custom rifle aside).

Yes, the CZ 550 is a tad rough off the factory but truly it is a 4 hour affair to make it as slick as a $40,000 Rigby built on the same action. Hint: there is a pretty darn good reason why Rigby used CZ action to built their rifles during the long period when Mauser true Magnum length actions were not available... You can slick it yourself if you know what you are doing. Wayne at AHR can do it even better for you. Alternatively, watch a movie on TV while cycling the action 10,000 times and it will be smooth as baby skin.

There is also a pretty darn good reason why Brno ZKK and CZ 550 are the workhorses of Africa. They are just plain indestructible, especially if you add a $280 Bell & Carlson synthetic stock with full length aluminum bedding block and pillars. Another hint: B&C are the ones who makes the factory CZ "aramid" stock...

All this being said, the imperfect rifle you like and trust is better for you than the perfect rifle you do not like, so to each his own...

Another stupid question (I have lots of them)? I have read here on AH a number of times about glass, aluminum or other bedding. I understand it provides strength and improves accuracy with a rifle. Does the CZ 550 with a walnut stock REQUIRE this for strength? My .458WM with the Limbsaver recoil pad doesn't seem to have the recoil required to "crack" a walnut stock. Maybe over many shot rounds over many years this would occur? As far as accuracy with THIS round, so far at 50yds. with open sights I would feel comfortable to kill a NA elk (Wapiti) with it. I haven't shot it YET at 100 yds. If you or anyone else here on AH has experience with this subject, I would greatly appreciate your/their input. Thanks!

 

[bruce moulds]

contrary to popular belief, epoxy bedding does not do a lot to strengthen wood stocks.
if it makes the recoil lug bear more evenly, this is more help than epoxy itself.
be aware that under recoil. the stock compresses and the action moves backwards.
thus the action screws must have clearance, or when they press onto the timber at their rear they can start splitting.
the rear of the rear tang needs clearance or it can split wood.
anything tapered at the rear if the action or anywhere else can split the stock with insufficient clearance.
bruce.

 

[EZRider]

Another stupid question (I have lots of them)? I have read here on AH a number of times about glass, aluminum or other bedding. I understand it provides strength and improves accuracy with a rifle. Does the CZ 550 with a walnut stock REQUIRE this for strength? My .458WM with the Limbsaver recoil pad doesn't seem to have the recoil required to "crack" a walnut stock. Maybe over many shot rounds over many years this would occur? As far as accuracy with THIS round, so far at 50yds. with open sights I would feel comfortable to kill a NA elk (Wapiti) with it. I haven't shot it YET at 100 yds. If you or anyone else here on AH has experience with this subject, I would greatly appreciate your/their input. Thanks!

I glass bedded both of my CZ 550 rifles when I had them free floated. Made no difference to my .375 accuracy, which was already moa, but a really big improvement on the .308.
I would do it were I you.

 

[fourfive8]

Proper glass bedding will strengthen any wood stock- period. Recoil is not the only enemy of wood- exposure to oil, age and shrink-swell cycles from varying humidity and compression from tightening of action screws in addition to the effects of recoil can damage wood over time.

 

[meigsbucks]

Any preference between these 2 rifles? What is your experience? I really like the cz’s 5 round mag and 458 Lott chambering, but the Winchester has the 3 position safety and better trigger straight out of the box.

I basically looking for a traditional crf big game rifle in 458 Lott to shoot with open sights out to maybe 75 yds. I want a 3 position safety, decent trigger and good enough bedding that it won’t shoot it self apart in 50 rounds.

If I go with the Winchester, I will be looking to rechamber to 458 Lott. I keep hearing this is relatively easy. That won’t be me doing it, so who could I go to? Recommendations, especially in Ohio?

SSK out of Wintersville, OH could probably do the work. I’ve also heard that Scheffler’s Straight Shooters in Crooksville, OH does good work. Several competition shooters at the range use this guy.

 

[nksmfamjp]

So, add a Montana Rifle Co African in 458 Lott, 22” barrel, hooded front sight, Turkish walnut stock, swivel on barrel....how does that compare?