Lion - stalk vs. bait

[Wheels]

As some of you know, I've been giving serious thought to booking a lion hunt. The outfitters that I have spoken with hunt them using spot and stalk. However, on hunting shows that I have seen I think that all, or nearly, all have been done using bait. I realize that shooting over bait is probably a lot easier for the cameraman. However, what is the reality of lion hunts in southern Africa?

Mtgoat,

I have been doing research into this lately as well. This is what I have learned and is subject to correction by those more knowledgeable.

Most free range lions are taken over bait or within a short distance of bait. Steve and others may correct me but the only free range lions that can be stalked (tracked down like elephant and buff) consistently are in Burkina Faso. (Cameroon also has some hunts this way but it is more involved trying to get the license for a lion) This is due to the soil being sandy. They don't have much in the way of manes. If you want a free range lion and want to stalk it that may be the best way to go. Otherwise you will probably be hunting over baits for a free range lion. Unless of course you get one as a "target of opportunity".

Someone mentioned Jamie Traut and I have heard that lions can be tracked down there because of the sandy conditions as well. Lions not being on the property when you choose to hunt might be a problem though.

Hunting a released lion in a big area and stalking it is a personal decision. There are certainly a number of outfitters on this website that offer these hunts. These lions tend to be cheaper with larger manes than free range lions.

If you do either, I would love to read your hunting report and see the photos. Just beware the "Bachman fiasco". The people that tweet and facebook don't seem to appreciate it too much.

All the best on your decision and hunt.

 

[shakari]

You can track them in some other places such as Masailand Tanzania where the soil is similar to talcum powder, but it's not easy and success rates are very low...... and to be entirely honest, the PH needs to be very choosey who he does it with (both staff and clients) because all it takes is for one ban to bolt or the client to be a bit too quick or a bit too slow on the trigger and things can go very badly wrong, very quickly indeed.

It should also be noted that Masailand lions are notoriously well educated because the bloody Masai like to kill them at every opportunity and by any method available.

 

[Wheels]

Thanks for your input Steve. Your knowledge is appreciated.

So if I understand what you are saying, be very careful and check out your ph and his staff if a Burkina Faso is in the works.

 

[shakari]

It's always important to choose your PH & outfitter with great care on any hunt because not every PH suits every client & vice versa but it's especially important on a DG hunt & even more important on the sort of hunt being discussed here. (no matter where the venue)

 

[Wheels]

It's always important to choose your PH & outfitter with great care on any hunt because not every PH suits every client & vice versa but it's especially important on a DG hunt & even more important on the sort of hunt being discussed here. (no matter where the venue)

:thumb: Agree completely.

You left the business before I got to the point in life where I had the time/money (still don't have enough) to do some hunting. I think I would have enjoyed hunting with you. I know I would have learned a lot.

You on the other hand probably would have said "No Way" to me!

I always enjoy your thoughts on lion hunting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[shakari]

:thumb: Agree completely.

You left the business before I got to the point in life where I had the time/money (still don't have enough) to do some hunting. I think I would have enjoyed hunting with you. I know I would have learned a lot.

You on the other hand probably would have said "No Way" to me!

I always enjoy your thoughts on lion hunting. Thanks for sharing.

Don't bet on that.

I've never gauged a man on rank, title, fortune or experience. I judge them on attitude & we seem to both think the same way.

 

[Wheels]

Don't bet on that.

I've never gauged a man on rank, title, fortune or experience. I judge them on attitude & we seem to both think the same way.

:happywave::beer::thumb:

 

[ChrisT]

FWIW My understanding is that it is not legal to hunt lions over bait in North-West Province South Africa (where many of the kalahari hunts are done) I don't know about other provinces (Provincial regulations vary).

 

[ChrisT]

FWIW My understanding is that it is not legal to hunt lions on fenced ranches over bait in North-West Province South Africa (where many of the kalahari hunts are done) I don't know about other provinces (Provincial regulations vary).

 

[Mtgoat]

FWIW My understanding is that it is not legal to hunt lions on fenced ranches over bait in North-West Province South Africa (where many of the kalahari hunts are done) I don't know about other provinces (Provincial regulations vary).

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.

 

[shakari]

I don't have the time or the patience but if anyone does, they can find most of the RSA game ordinances here: N/West Ordinance

 

[Mtgoat]

I don't have the time or the patience but if anyone does, they can find most of the RSA game ordinances here: N/West Ordinance

It wouldn't do me any good - I'd just misunderstand them.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Gentleman,
Here is a captive bred lioness hunt(See Captive bred, not Captive or Pen "Raised" as some would refer ) conducted in South Africa just over a month ago. The camera man is Martin Müller. Decide for yourself.

The result:




Best Regards,
Marius Goosen

 

[shakari]

Marius

I don't understand your point.

A lion is always a lion & therefore (assuming it's not drugged) always dangerous but a newly released pen bred one will never have been self sustaining, never know the area or escape routes & will always be habituated to people & vehicles.

Therefore it'll always be a shoot & never a proper hunt & nor will such a shoot ever do a single iota of good for wild lion populations because the one has nothing to do with the other.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Steve,
Don't see me trying to make a point anywhere. Decide for yourself is all I said. Are we not allowed to share videos with fellow hunters anymore?
Take a chill pill my man.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Marius

I don't understand your point.

A lion is always a lion & therefore (assuming it's not drugged) always dangerous but a newly released pen bred one will never have been self sustaining, never know the area or escape routes & will always be habituated to people & vehicles.

Therefore it'll always be a shoot & never a proper hunt & nor will such a shoot ever do a single iota of good for wild lion populations because the one has nothing to do with the other.

By the way..... not self sustaining? Will you then explain to me why we have found fresh Gemsbuck kills while hunting lion in South Africa?
We think we know much about nature, but in fact we know very little. Nature will always find a way.

 

[shakari]

By the way..... not self sustaining? Will you then explain to me why we have found fresh Gemsbuck kills while hunting lion in South Africa?
We think we know much about nature, but in fact we know very little. Nature will always find a way.

Marius

Are you suggesting that any significant number of SA farms have wild lions that just wander in & out of them....... if not, then perhaps you could please elaborate on you comment?

I'll bet a pound to a pinch of the smelly brown stuff that there are VERY few truly wild & unhabituated lions shot in RSA nowadays.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Steve,
No, I don't suggest that a significant SA farms have wild lions.
The point that I am trying to make is that we have found fresh kills(Gemsbuck) while hunting captive bred lion. My point is that even captive bred lions have the capability of killing for food, which tells me that nature will always find a way. So, not able to become self-sustaining, as you mentioned in your above post. I'm not so sure. I believe that any wild animal will adapt to its needs for survival. Its in their instinct.
I'm not selling a lion hunt here. Just stating facts what we have observed from our time out there.

 

[shakari]

Marius

You're missing my point again.

I didn't say they could never become self sustaining.

I said they don't get a chance to become self sustaining because no landowner can afford to have self sustaining lions on a game farm for any significant period of time because of the costs in lost game that are involved.

 

[shakari]

Just in case you missed that post. Here's the cost problem & I'm sure you'll appreciate I've erred on the kind side on my calculations:

There's more to it than just the size of the land.

The major questions about fenced areas is how long has the animal been there and how habituated to people & vehicles is it?

If it's only been there a day or two then it doesn't know the area and escape routes etc so even if no drugs are clouding the animal's mind, the hunter still has an advantage over a normal hunt and that just ain't right.

You might say what if the animal has been in the area for a considerable time? and the answer to that is it's highly unlikely. Let's first do some sums and work on just one lion eating one impala valued at US$100 per day.

If the animal is there for just 10 days, that's $1000 out of the potential profit or $3000 if it's there for just a month.

Then factor in that lions don't know the difference between an impala, a kudu or a sable etc and just an occasional kill like that can quickly cost the landowner thousands more.

If more than one lion on the property, costs can escalate incredibly quickly so it's in the landowners interests to have the animal on his property for as short a time as possible.

Now factor in the fact this animal is habituated and very possibly more likely to run towards a vehicle than away from it and you quickly realise that a pen bred and released lion has about as much in common with a true wild lion hunt as chalk and cheese.

I haven't even begun to address the issue of drugged animals here but if I did, you'd very quickly realise what a abomination that is as well.

I personally believe that these canned shoots and the fidiots who put them on you tube etc will be the death of all African sport hunting and the more & sooner we disassociate ourselves from these shameful practices the better.