Lion hunting SA

You are correct. Just as not all CBL hunting is created equal. Just curious, have you hunted game of any sort inside of a fence? And I'm not being argumentative with you, I just want to know where you stand on hunting on fenced game ranches. Do you believe that all hunting besides free range hunting should be banned? If so, I understand your argument. You are simply opposed to hunting any animal under such conditions. And that's fine. But if anyone can condemn CBL hunting while condoning hunting PG and Buffalo under indentical conditions, I just can't understand that argument. That's all.
I, like you, do appreciate the conversation, and am always open to discuss these topics with anyone who is willing to have a sane, logical discussion. I just fail to see the logic in some of the responses we've seen on this thread.
Cbl can obviously vary but they are still raised for the same purpose, which is void of any conservational value.

I’m not opposed to fences. It can be and is done properly in many, many instances. I’m not condoning put and take no matter the species so I’ve either not made myself clear or the people that are trying to muddy the waters have been successful. I admit there’s a good chance of either..
 
No its not. Was Cecil a CBL? I have a family member make PETAs website for shooting a giraffe. Not CBL. So not a worn out argument. To care about the opinion of Anti's is a losing game.

As you said not all put and take are the same, I think one can hunt a CBL ethically. You don't. It’s all good man.
When Cecil is mentioned in support of CBL, it’s never mentioned the documentary Blood Lions was released the same month. Cecil gave them a name, but that documentary gave the ammunition.
 
So are and some are not. Many want to believe what best suits their interests. For low cost many questions don’t get asked. Also, many first time hunters to South Africa can’t imagine the level of commercialization so don’t know to ask or even believe it if told.
I cannot believe somebody can be so clueless as to book a cbl hunt not knowing what it entails....seriously....and then be so gullible to believe they are suddenly hunting a wild lion that craled the fence from Botswana but I suppose that happens.....
 
I cannot believe somebody can be so clueless as to book a cbl hunt not knowing what it entails....seriously....and then be so gullible to believe they are suddenly hunting a wild lion that craled the fence from Botswana but I suppose that happens.....
There is a lot of deception sold online, even on this forum. I don't blame the first time hunter for not knowing what to ask.
 
It is my understanding that each hunter is supposed to sign an agreement before each hunt which stipulates all the details of the hunt??? Or is this no longer the case???
The hunter knows before he arrives here that he is hunting a cbl or not??? Or was this just a decision that was made suddenly one morning at breakfast???
Nobody books a pg hunt and then suddenly gets offered a rogue lion or a lion that miraculously appeared from Botswana...
If hunters are so stupid to believe this then well I quess so be it....
Id actually really like to see verification of this if this is true. If paperwork is signed stating the lion was released on this date from this facility then it’s then the hunter cannot say he didn’t know full details of the hunt. However, I’d assume it’s standard liability agreement without knowing more.
 
OK... I can't take it anymore... I believe it's supposed to be ROGUE lion, though I confess to being unfamiliar with any specific story about said lion. If it truly was a ROUGE lion, well, then, someone set me straight. And provide photos - that's be a funny looking lion to see. (that is directed at no one in particular; I have seen it in several places)
Well to be fair, these were the same lions that didn’t jump into rocky areas so they don’t break a nail.
 
I cannot believe somebody can be so clueless as to book a cbl hunt not knowing what it entails....seriously....and then be so gullible to believe they are suddenly hunting a wild lion that craled the fence from Botswana but I suppose that happens.....
If someone today believes a problem lion suddenly crossed from Botswana and they were offended the hunt at CBL prices then they are a fool, however before this practice was exposed any marketing lie could be told. As much as I disagree with this practice it may be one of the more honest put and take hunting opportunities available today, if the right questions are asked.
 
Again not a cop out, since you agree with me in the next sentence. Again ethics vary, if I said it is legal than it is ethical, that would be a cop out to do whatever I want.

So the "Hunt" can be ethical. Is that the way they are raised that is unethical?
I said something like “if you hunt cbl you are a tool of the antis”.

You directly responded saying something like “all hunters are tools of the antis” which by itself is not a cop out but a factual statement but in context of the conversation and the rest of your response in that post it is in fact a cop out. Context and usage matters
 
Id actually really like to see verification of this if this is true. If paperwork is signed stating the lion was released on this date from this facility then it’s then the hunter cannot say he didn’t know full details of the hunt. However, I’d assume it’s standard liability agreement without knowing more.
It is in the SAPA documentation so perhaps a email to them could reveal a copy of said contract that the client needs to sign can be optained.
 
Have you visited a CBL breeding farm? I can’t see the difference in CBL hunts when they originated from the same source. The argument isn’t about hunting fenced ranches. The argument is about hunting farm raised lions.
So farm raised Buffalo and PG is ok then?
 
Nobody is really discussing fences in earnest. Primarily cbl and subsequently put and take
Yeah, but if you go to the Kuche Safari thread it’s the same people there making the same arguments. It’s a trend.

I get it. Certain people like their 100k wild hunts. That’s awesome. But to go to every thread and bash the ethics or judgement of others that do it different doesn’t help anyone.

Harping over and over the negatives of a CBL hunt won’t make the PETA people like you anymore. As soon as that is banned, they will come for your wild lion hunts too.
 
So farm raised Buffalo and PG is ok then?
I have no interest in it and think they should be marketed honestly, but if someone wants to hunt put and take plains game I don’t care. I don’t think it’s detrimental to hunting like shooting CBL lions that are also bred for cub petting and lion bone industries. Now, my question, have you visited a CBL lion breeding facility? I think that would change many hunter’s opinions if they saw what they don’t want to see and not only the tracking experience 7 days later.
 
Id actually really like to see verification of this if this is true. If paperwork is signed stating the lion was released on this date from this facility then it’s then the hunter cannot say he didn’t know full details of the hunt. However, I’d assume it’s standard liability agreement without knowing more.
Perhaps some here who have partisipated can elaborate?
 
It is my understanding that each hunter is supposed to sign an agreement before each hunt which stipulates all the details of the hunt??? Or is this no longer the case???
The hunter knows before he arrives here that he is hunting a cbl or not??? Or was this just a decision that was made suddenly one morning at breakfast???
Nobody books a pg hunt and then suddenly gets offered a rogue lion or a lion that miraculously appeared from Botswana...
If hunters are so stupid to believe this then well I quess so be it....
this threw me as well? who does not know they are on an CBL hunt??? Amazing!!!
 
Yeah, but if you go to the Kuche Safari thread it’s the same people there making the same arguments. It’s a trend.

I get it. Certain people like their 100k wild hunts. That’s awesome. But to go to every thread and bash the ethics or judgement of others that do it different doesn’t help anyone.

Harping over and over the negatives of a CBL hunt won’t make the PETA people like you anymore. As soon as that is banned, they will come for your wild lion hunts too.
I disagree with put and take hunting regardless of its kuche safaris or CBL. However, the kuche thread is about better opportunities for the same experience and same pricing. CBL threads give someone an understanding there is more to CBL than just the tracking experience. However, it’s the same in that people who have participated and enjoyed the experience don’t want to ask questions that might change their perception.
 
Anyone else need a drink?
PHOTO-2022-05-22-10-50-00.jpeg
 
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this threw me as well? who does not know they are on an CBL hunt??? Amazing!!!
Would you know if these threads didn’t exist? Did you sign paperwork at start if your hunt stating clearly it was a farm raised lion as IvW said? Many have gone on put and take buffalo hunts without realizing. The amount of discussion around CBL has created at least some honesty in that industry because it’s difficult to hide now.
 

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Grz63 wrote on roklok's profile.
Hi Roklok
I read your post on Caprivi. Congratulations.
I plan to hunt there for buff in 2026 oct.
How was the land, very dry ? But à lot of buffs ?
Thank you / merci
Philippe
Fire Dog wrote on AfricaHunting.com's profile.
Chopped up the whole thing as I kept hitting the 240 character limit...
Found out the trigger word in the end... It was muzzle or velocity. dropped them and it posted.:)
Fire Dog wrote on AfricaHunting.com's profile.
2,822fps, ES 8.2
This compares favorably to 7 Rem Mag. with less powder & recoil.
Fire Dog wrote on AfricaHunting.com's profile.
*PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS FOR MY RIFLE, ALWAYS APPROACH A NEW LOAD CAUTIOUSLY!!*
Rifle is a Pierce long action, 32" 1:8.5 twist Swan{Au} barrel
{You will want a 1:8.5 to run the heavies but can get away with a 1:9}
Peterson .280AI brass, CCI 200 primers, 56.5gr of 4831SC, 184gr Berger Hybrid.
Fire Dog wrote on AfricaHunting.com's profile.
I know that this thread is more than a year old but as a new member I thought I would pass along my .280AI loading.
I am shooting F Open long range rather than hunting but here is what is working for me and I have managed a 198.14 at 800 meters.
That is for 20 shots. The 14 are X's which is a 5" circle.
 
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