Let's Talk About The 458 B&M

[Brian]

I used the CEB Raptor .500 calibre 410 grain on three cape buffalo last year. All middle of the shoulder shots ( not in the heart) at 40 yds. and all dead right there.
The muzzle velocity from my old single shot was just 1920 fps. That CEB Raptor in 500. cal. is amazing. Brian

 

[Milehighshooter]

@TOBY458 There are several nice people on AH that have accused me of being a bad influence, so I guess it is your turn for me to assist in selecting a new big bore or 2. I say get both the 458 B&M and the 458WM. The B&M for long walks and the WM for sitting in a blind. Once you have done that we can sit down with a beer and start talking double rifles

Horrible influence, but great company for a few hours and many cups of coffee!

 

[Milehighshooter]

Thanks so much for this info! The main reason I asked about 458 Win Mag, is I have a really nice stainless New Haven rifle in 7mm Rem Mag that I'm considering converting to either 416 Taylor Or 458 Win Mag. I already have a Ruger Alaskan in 416 Ruger, so I'm leaning towards 458 Win on this project. I've also been leaning more and more toward a shorter set up for all my DG rifles. I have a Winchester 70 416 Rem Mag that shoots great, but is heavy and long to drag through the thorns. Your rifles seem perfect for this...

Go even bigger. Turn that M70 into a 458 AccRel. Basically a 458 Ruger. Capacity of the Lott, length if the Win Mag. Chop it at 20" and you're about 1.5" overall longer vs the B&M and maybe a pound heavier

 

[TOBY458]

Go even bigger. Turn that M70 into a 458 AccRel. Basically a 458 Ruger. Capacity of the Lott, length if the Win Mag. Chop it at 20" and you're about 1.5" overall longer vs the B&M and maybe a pound heavier

The goal is lighter and shorter! I'm satisfied with a 450 Grain bullet at 2200fps or so. I think the 458WM should be all that's needed for that. I think a 458 WM with a 22" barrel that came in at 8.5-9lbs with a scope installed would be just about right.

 

[michael458]

Toby....... If you do anything with that M70 you have, do 458 Winchester. I believe I recall it being 7mm Remington? If so, you do not want to go with a fatter case than what the magazine box is designed to work with, you will have endless issues with it retaining and feeding properly. You cannot successfully put a fat case in those M70s that are designed for that H&H based case, not without tons of work, and even then there are no 100% guarantees. Even with 458 Winchester there will be a few issues, but those can be sorted out. The mag box currently is set up to run those rat bullets designed in 7mm. Now you are putting a 450 gr + bullet in the nose, and the bolt dragging back over that doing it's best to snatch it out of the magazine on its way to the rear. The nose wants to come out of the magazine at that point, and some adjustments will have to be done to account for that. Its a fine line when it comes to feed/function, and you do not want to have a DGR that does not work properly, there would be no point in that..........

Brian and I at SSK looked at trying the HHBased M70s to build 500 MDM on, since the source of Winchester M70s in 300 RUM is very limited. It was a no go, Winchester did a hell of a lot of modifications to the RUM actions to get that fatter case to feed and function in a M70. Way more than is worth messing with and still most likely not going to get the results you want or desire in a DGR. This was confirmed by a few other gunsmiths as well. While the source of Win RUM based actions is short and few, and drying up, I had Montana do two actions for me designed for RUM, and they served the purpose extremely well, even building a Left Hand action, and hence a Left Hand 500 MDM for a good friend of mine. The Montana action did very well and when the source of Win M70 RUM actions completely dry up, then Montana can take the place of those.................

 

[TOBY458]

Toby....... If you do anything with that M70 you have, do 458 Winchester. I believe I recall it being 7mm Remington? If so, you do not want to go with a fatter case than what the magazine box is designed to work with, you will have endless issues with it retaining and feeding properly. You cannot successfully put a fat case in those M70s that are designed for that H&H based case, not without tons of work, and even then there are no 100% guarantees. Even with 458 Winchester there will be a few issues, but those can be sorted out. The mag box currently is set up to run those rat bullets designed in 7mm. Now you are putting a 450 gr + bullet in the nose, and the bolt dragging back over that doing it's best to snatch it out of the magazine on its way to the rear. The nose wants to come out of the magazine at that point, and some adjustments will have to be done to account for that. Its a fine line when it comes to feed/function, and you do not want to have a DGR that does not work properly, there would be no point in that..........

Brian and I at SSK looked at trying the HHBased M70s to build 500 MDM on, since the source of Winchester M70s in 300 RUM is very limited. It was a no go, Winchester did a hell of a lot of modifications to the RUM actions to get that fatter case to feed and function in a M70. Way more than is worth messing with and still most likely not going to get the results you want or desire in a DGR. This was confirmed by a few other gunsmiths as well. While the source of Win RUM based actions is short and few, and drying up, I had Montana do two actions for me designed for RUM, and they served the purpose extremely well, even building a Left Hand action, and hence a Left Hand 500 MDM for a good friend of mine. The Montana action did very well and when the source of Win M70 RUM actions completely dry up, then Montana can take the place of those.................

Yes. I spoke with JD Jones awhile back about converting that rifle to 416 Ruger, and he told me the very same thing. I then asked about 416 Taylor, and he seemed to think it would work. I've played around with some 416 Taylor Dummy rounds and they work fine every time as long as a pointed bullet is used, but sometimes a round nosed bullet will jam coming off the left side of the rails. I tried 458 Win Mag and it does the same thing. Perfect off the right side and jams on the left. I'm wondering if a 458 win mag follower would help? It has some indentations in the follower that could possibly let the cartridge ride up the ramp at a different angle. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[michael458]

First, I am assuming the gun you want to convert is a Control Feed gun.......... If so, Brian at SSK can sort the left side out pretty easy, some minor adjustments should do it, and yes, a different follower might just do the trick the easy way...... Something Brian can sort out for you I am sure.

Sure, 416 Taylor being nothing but 458 squeezed down to 416, same case...... Same H&H Beginnings...... would work. I had a 416 Taylor many many years ago....... 458 is the way to play.

 

[TOBY458]

Thanks Michael. I may go ahead and order a follower and try to work it out before I send it over. Yes it is a control round feed action. The rounds that come off the right side are as slick as you could ask for. The one that comes off the left will bind with the cartridge rim wedged between the round under it and the mag box. I think maybe if a 458 follower is used, maybe it will allow the round under it to sit at a different angle. The followers are $25.00, so it won't be too costly to experiment.

 

[geoff rath]

A B&M is well beyond the capacity of my wallet (Sigh) but I've been wondering about the Woodleigh 450 grain Hydros in a 458 B&M ?? Feasible? I note that Meplat Services (Aussie Importer/distributor) has a 458 available for sale, ample for anything I'd want to hunt ... What a temptation ...

 

[michael458]

but I've been wondering about the Woodleigh 450 grain Hydros in a 458 B&M ?? Feasible?

Your Answer to that question, absolutely yes, more than feasible, when I tested the Hydro, I used 458 B&M.........

 

[Glenn Slaven]

I’m late to the party. Was looking at the website the other day bc I had been searching 9.3 stuff and came across the 9.3B&M. From looking at the website I’m assuming the company is inactive now? Hadn’t seen anything posted or updated in a while.

 

[michael458]

From looking at the website I’m assuming the company is inactive now? Hadn’t seen anything posted or updated in a while.

Nahh... Everything is still the same, its just I have been extremely lazy to do any updates on the website for the last couple of years, and yes, you are correct, nothing added in a long time. Have been meaning to do some updates..... but always something gets in the way, but mostly just lazy.

Not really a company..... I'm just a shooter/hunter, same as you........A lazy one, I'd rather be shooting than screwing with a website.......or talking to you instead of screwing with the website.........

 

[Glenn Slaven]

Nahh... Everything is still the same, its just I have been extremely lazy to do any updates on the website for the last couple of years, and yes, you are correct, nothing added in a long time. Have been meaning to do some updates..... but always something gets in the way, but mostly just lazy.

Not really a company..... I'm just a shooter/hunter, same as you........A lazy one, I'd rather be shooting than screwing with a website.......or talking to you instead of screwing with the website.........

Then you and I would probably get along famously. I haven’t done anything on my website either and occasionally I’ll post something on FB business page.
Now that I know this, I’m going to start looking at website again…

 

[TOBY458]

I've been doing a few tests this week on a cut down 458 WM. I cut it to 21 1/4", and have been trying out a couple of the various CEB bullets. But even cut down to this length, I'm still a bit heavier than I want total gun weight to be. I'm at 8lbs 12oz with no scope. 9lbs 7oz with Leupold 1.5-5×20 installed.

I'd love to be able to drop some weight off of those numbers, and the 18" or 20" barrel on the B&Ms would be sweet too.

The B&M is becoming more and more heavy on my mind again.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I've been doing a few tests this week on a cut down 458 WM. I cut it to 21 1/4", and have been trying out a couple of the various CEB bullets. But even cut down to this length, I'm still a bit heavier than I want total gun weight to be. I'm at 8lbs 12oz with no scope. 9lbs 7oz with Leupold 1.5-5×20 installed.

I'd love to be able to drop some weight off of those numbers, and the 18" or 20" barrel on the B&Ms would be sweet too.

The B&M is becoming more and more heavy on my mind again.

I’d love to see your chrono numbers.

 

[michael458]

Then you and I would probably get along famously. I haven’t done anything on my website either and occasionally I’ll post something on FB business page.
Now that I know this, I’m going to start looking at website again…

This prompted me to at least take a look at doing some editing on the website..... What a damn mess. Seems they have changed all the things about what used to make it easy to edit, delete, add and so forth........ I am going to have to learn how to edit again to make any substantial changes.......I feel a serious lazy spell coming on.................

If you have questions, just drop me a note.......

 

[TOBY458]

I’d love to see your chrono numbers.

I've got a few more bullet weights to try, and I'll do a report.

So far...
CEB 258gr Socom @2800 fps.
CEB 370gr Raptor @2375 fps.

 

[John J]

I've been doing a few tests this week on a cut down 458 WM. I cut it to 21 1/4", and have been trying out a couple of the various CEB bullets. But even cut down to this length, I'm still a bit heavier than I want total gun weight to be. I'm at 8lbs 12oz with no scope. 9lbs 7oz with Leupold 1.5-5×20 installed.

I'd love to be able to drop some weight off of those numbers, and the 18" or 20" barrel on the B&Ms would be sweet too.

The B&M is becoming more and more heavy on my mind again.

Size and weight was what pushed me off the cart for a B&M. I have had an action sitting for the 458 for a while. Back burner project while other things happen sadly.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I've got a few more bullet weights to try, and I'll do a report.

So far...
CEB 258gr Socom @2800 fps.
CEB 370gr Raptor @2375 fps.

Your 258gr Socom comes right in with my results for my 18" .458B&M.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Size and weight was what pushed me off the cart for a B&M.

Too light/small is your concern?