It's started here!

[TucsonFX4]

I disagree, I don't mind it. For all I know the powder makers has a much higher margin on it than the scalper, plenty of people have something sitting around and it's only worth selling at a certain price for them. If someone is charging too much it won't sell, it's simple supply and demand. I find this system of barter a lot more healthy than the alternative. I don't go to work for free and pretty sure most if you don't either and likely have a job because of this system. If you disagree don't buy from them.

I don’t completely disagree, but when store shelves and online retailers have been emptied out of MSRP products to resell for another level of profit by another middle man, there is no choice if you need the product.

Again, I’m not saying I’m against the gunbroker or gun show market. I really don’t even know exactly where I stand on it and definitely don’t have a solution, except to let the market play out and hopefully find a reasonable balance.

 

[Paul G]

I don’t completely disagree, but when store shelves and online retailers have been emptied out of MSRP products to resell for another level of profit by another middle man, there is no choice if you need the product.

Again, I’m not saying I’m against the gunbroker or gun show market. I really don’t even know exactly where I stand on it and definitely don’t have a solution, except to let the market play out and hopefully find a reasonable balance.

They have not been emptied out by only resellers or there would be similar competition and prices would be lower. All you have to do is beat them to it at the store, same way you would any other buyer. Still the same issues.

 

[Woodcarver]

The one thing I have seen people write about at the same time they gripe about scalper pricing, is they pay the shipping fee AND the hazmat fee on an order of 2#-5# of powder. That jumps the price/lb up to the high $40s-mid$50s/lb. Minimum online order (for me) is 3-8# kegs. It's the only way to spread the shipping and hazmat out to only add a buck or two to the price/lb.
For those still looking for powder, find every legitimate (there are several scammer sites) supplier and look daily. Ideally, mid-day. Have a list of what you're looking for and be ready to pull the trigger on the buy. Patience and persistence.
Or pay the scalpers and get what you need a little bit sooner....

 

[TucsonFX4]

The one thing I have seen people write about at the same time they gripe about scalper pricing, is they pay the shipping fee AND the hazmat fee on an order of 2#-5# of powder. That jumps the price/lb up to the high $40s-mid$50s/lb. Minimum online order (for me) is 3-8# kegs. It's the only way to spread the shipping and hazmat out to only add a buck or two to the price/lb.
For those still looking for powder, find every legitimate (there are several scammer sites) supplier and look daily. Ideally, mid-day. Have a list of what you're looking for and be ready to pull the trigger on the buy. Patience and persistence.
Or pay the scalpers and get what you need a little bit sooner....

The challenge with that these days, is finding 3 different jugs of powder you want from the same place at the same time. Most or all online places limit to one jug per type of 5-8# jugs. Otherwise I completely agree, only way to combat shipping and hazmat fees is through quantity.

 

[Hunter4752001]

An an example:

$1,300 for a 2 Kg drum (approx 8 lb) for AP50N (Hodgdon International), $1,000 for 1.5kg drum of Trail Boss. Etc.

In Australia this is caused by the convergence of 3 factors:
ADI temporarily ceasing production of pistol powders,
Winchester n longer importing powders. Alliant importer unable to transport powders interstate.
Laws mandating minimum attendance and competition participation to retain handgun licence.

Handgunners now between a rock and a hard place. Pay exhorbitant prices or lose your guns.

 

[baxterb]

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would think these ridiculously expensive products are sold among friends who reimburse each other while they snag the occasional shlub who thinks it’s legit and split the profits.

but I’m not a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Rubberhead]

So, if ammo manufacturers are running, say, a 5 day, 3 shift operation they can ramp up production by running a couple of weekend shifts but that will cost them extra since they have to pay overtime. Of, if they're running 24x7 they have to invest capital to "ramp" up new production facilities which is very expensive in today's world. Either way, customers demanding the extra product have to send the appropriate price signals otherwise, manufacturers aren't going to take a loss just to satisfy "new demand". Those prices signals have to be strong enough to sustain manufacturers' interest.

Customers shouldn't expect to have a huge product glut without price and supply issues. And, the same thing applies to the ammo manufacturers' supply chain. An ammo manufacture can't simply ask their lead or powder suppliers to double their volumes over night because they have production limits too. No efficient manufacturer is going to have much unused production capabilities so stressing the system with unusual demand will (and should) increase prices. It's just plain old economics.

 

[Woodcarver]

This is probably preachin' to the choir for you Aussies suffering your morons in office (we have an ample supply of those too), but, you need to vote them out of office and get some folks in that, at a minimum, don't have their heads quite as far up their derriere. Some of the laws you all are suffering under are truly stupid.
Not sure what the solution will be to get more supplies down there, but obviously if you lose the firearm(s) that you need components for in the meantime, the need for components becomes moot. Good luck in the quest.

 

[CBH Australia]

@USMA84DAB
I'm not knocking you or others who do Swap meets, gun shows etc. Your markup is fair.

I'm not against anyone making a profit. I've read many US examples of Gunbroker examples and thought this would be of interest to many.

The example @Hunter4752001 shows are what I saw. Yes it's pistol powders for now and some primers.
Asking price is about Five times what it would have sold for 6 months ago.

If I need sell any components I will look for replacement value as a mininum. Maybe ask a premium but give times seems surprised me.

Ammo, components hold their value and we all want some and enough to fulfill our short term requirements.

 

[Proneshooter]

I witnessed a case of similar product sell for over $1,700.00 on a "bidding" website. While I don't mind a guy making a fair profit, this was "scalping" and I want no part of it.

I have to disagree with you here, nobody forced anyone to bid that high on a product. Would you be upset if this happened if you were trying to sell your home? I know I would not be. People complain about the rising costs of reloading components don't complain when they sell their home for more than what they paid for it. Now don't get me wrong I don't like the cost of gas right now, but it is what it is. I have sold a lot of stuff lately to help others out and I may have paid less for it than I sold it for but, I sold it at normal current retail, not Gunbroker retail, though I could have. I learned back in 2005 when I started shooting rifles competitively to be WELL ahead of your needs. If your going to shoot 5000 rounds a year, don't buy your supplies in 100 count boxes of bullets, or 500 primers at a time. Trust me I shoot with guys that do this very thing and always come begging for someone to sell them whatever they need and always want to buy it at what a person may have paid for it a couple of years ago. I also got screwed by a so called friend who told me how short everyone we shoot with was low on reloading supplies so I sold him 5K worth of stuff, 2 weeks later I see the stuff for sale on a local website for 3 times what I sold it to him for. Now how should that make me feel next time someone comes to me asking about selling them something? When you find something you need, buy all you can afford and you won't have to worry the next time supplies run low.
John

 

[Shootist43]

Proneshooter, I think the "scalping" referred to here is the difference between "normal retail" and
"Gunbroker retail." I continued searching for LRM primers and was able to purchase several thousand at prices between $75 and $90 per thousand. Unfortunately for me, they are not all from the same manufacturer or lot. But it is / was the best I could do at the time. I'll use the "odd" ones for practice and the Federal(s) for hunting.

 

[Proneshooter]

Proneshooter, I think the "scalping" referred to here is the difference between "normal retail" and
"Gunbroker retail." I continued searching for LRM primers and was able to purchase several thousand at prices between $75 and $90 per thousand. Unfortunately for me, they are not all from the same manufacturer or lot. But it is / was the best I could do at the time. I'll use the "odd" ones for practice and the Federal(s) for hunting.

Art,
You and I treat people fairly, I guess my lengthy post may not have come across on paper as well as in my head. If someone puts something up for auction and a bunch of fools want to pay way too much for something I say good for the seller. If I listed my house for 6 million and someone ponied up the money I walk away shaking my head all the way to the bank.

 

[CBH Australia]

I have to disagree with you here, nobody forced anyone to bid that high on a product. Would you be upset if this happened if you were trying to sell your home? I know I would not be. People complain about the rising costs of reloading components don't complain when they sell their home for more than what they paid for it. Now don't get me wrong I don't like the cost of gas right now, but it is what it is. I have sold a lot of stuff lately to help others out and I may have paid less for it than I sold it for but, I sold it at normal current retail, not Gunbroker retail, though I could have. I learned back in 2005 when I started shooting rifles competitively to be WELL ahead of your needs. If your going to shoot 5000 rounds a year, don't buy your supplies in 100 count boxes of bullets, or 500 primers at a time. Trust me I shoot with guys that do this very thing and always come begging for someone to sell them whatever they need and always want to buy it at what a person may have paid for it a couple of years ago. I also got screwed by a so called friend who told me how short everyone we shoot with was low on reloading supplies so I sold him 5K worth of stuff, 2 weeks later I see the stuff for sale on a local website for 3 times what I sold it to him for. Now how should that make me feel next time someone comes to me asking about selling them something? When you find something you need, buy all you can afford and you won't have to worry the next time supplies run low.
John

So your so called friend is one of the best or worst examples of this.
Buying off you underr the pretence he's pooling it for other shooters is wrong.
I'm thinking when he approached them with an inflated price they declined.
Hence he got greedier and marked it up again.
Not everyone can hold a good stock on hand or have the cash tied up. But when asking prices are like 5x usual it stinks.

 

[Paul G]

Art,
You and I treat people fairly, I guess my lengthy post may not have come across on paper as well as in my head. If someone puts something up for auction and a bunch of fools want to pay way too much for something I say good for the seller. If I listed my house for 6 million and someone ponied up the money I walk away shaking my head all the way to the bank.

Fairly is objective...

 

[Inline6]

I’ve never understood the concept of price gouging. To me it looks like the market adjusts until supply meets demand at a given price.

If anything, these “anti-gouging” directives we see at times during storms or shortages and whatnot make the problem worse. If the price is not allowed to adjust up to reflect market conditions, people are more likely to hoard because the items are essentially on sale. And if the price isn’t allowed to go up, the producers have less incentive to bust ass to fill demand.

The reason it is different for natural disasters, they should not run the price of basic human needs for survival. 10.00 a gallon of water is completely different than a 200.00 1k box of primers.

 

[Cam Moon]

Reminds me of a conversation about precious metals.

"I collect/stockpile silver and gold. You know... Just in case the shit hits the fan!"
"Not me. I collect/stockpile lead and brass."
"Why lead and brass?? I'm
certain that my gold and silver will always hold a value. If not, then hopefully something else I have will actually be valuable."
"Because with my lead and brass if the shit ever does hit the fan, I'll be able to come and take your gold and silver. .... Or whatever else you have that actually has value."

 

[Daggaboy375]

I hope you didn't "scalp" the buyer last time you sold a house.
How is it wrong if some one offers an item and a buyer willingly pays it?
Most times I hear the words scaiping or hoarding, it means you have something someone wants but can't afford.

DB

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

If one buys stocks in a start up company at $100 a share and three years later sells them for $1000 a share are they scalpers? No, that is wise investing. If I learn that the gunpowder factory where Varget is made blows up and I then buy up as much Varget as possible (providing I can safely and legally store it) and hold it for six months, then sell it at three times the former price, how is that not wise investing?

If I buy two years supply of reloading components at $1000 but then the retail price increases to $3000, why should I sell them for less than the replacement value? I do not want to sell my supplies but will trade to others in need at current retail value.

Here's another example; Biden recently announced that there will be worldwide food shortages. I told my wife we better have six months supply of non-perishable items such as rice, corn meal, and so on. I also recently won a bison hunt (American buffalo) in a local SCI auction. Butchered and vacuum packed this bison it will provide two years of steroid-free meat for my family. For all in this paragraph, I am simply planning for the worst. IF things do not get bad, I will have lost a little in the "Time value of money". It is much the same as buying insurance. Planning for the worst...

The USA Boy Scouts motto is "Be Prepared". I guess I took that to heart long ago...

 

[shootist~]

The issue - IMO - is when "scalpers" sit in front of their computers all day buying any and everything; effectively closing the market to the regular trade. THe normal outlets became aware of this and in some cases just srarted selling on Gunbroker instead.

FWIW the same thing has happened in the housing market with corporate opportunists buying up entire housing developments as well as apartment complexes.

Not saying either is illegal, but it still sucks.

 

[curtism1234]

The other thing not being talked about is the sheer amount of waste shooters are producing, probably just as bad if not worse than hoarding.

Going to a range and firing 250-500 rounds as fast as you can pull trigger (often just shooting at the berm without a target being out there) is ridiculous and wasteful. Sadly, this has become the norm