Is this really hunting?

[LivingTheDream]

Goes back to an earlier thread...what is always legal isn't always ethical. But I agree with Mr. 16 gauge this type of stuff will be the death of hunting. As a bow hunter, I am pretty repulsed by it and it defeats the whole point of hunting with a bow and takes the beauty and challenge out of the sport. I think name and shame and a little peer pressure can go a long way in this case.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Apparently some folks in the early days in America thought this was appropriate.

View attachment 45502

But now we have the internet for that sort of thing.

 

[BRICKBURN]

But now we have the internet for that sort of thing.

Exactly. Lot less sticky and less Chickens to pluck.

 

[Bhfs300]

It could be, for many, just a short slip down the slope, going from a 4wd truck to a light plane. No, they are not the same...but they do the same thing, they give a massive mechanical advantage to the hunter. It is just a matter of degree!

I agree I have just parked at the gate of a closed off area and have been walking for a couple miles. Off to my left on a TRAIL THREE HUNTERS on four wheelers go flying by me with muzzle loaders heading up the mountain to HUNT.

After a bad day on the mountain I get back to my truck to find the hunters that drove around the gate (with their Elk) and four wheelers tipping a beer before they head home.

I smile at them and drive two hours home.

 

[dobber]

share the link or the page?

Curious as to what the laws are where this was taken, and am sure most people here would like to make sure they stay away from this outfitter if this is how he operates

Would like to read it first hand before making any judgement, because lets face it if you follow Facebook and share a link you will get a new Mac or give something 1M likes it will cure whatever ailment someone has

 

[tarbe]

I agree I have just parked at the gate of a closed off area and have been walking for a couple miles. Off to my left on a TRAIL THREE HUNTERS on four wheelers go flying by me with muzzle loaders heading up the mountain to HUNT.

After a bad day on the mountain I get back to my truck to find the hunters that drove around the gate (with their Elk) and four wheelers tipping a beer before they head home.

I smile at them and drive two hours home.

This sort of thing is what got me started hunting in designated wilderness.

In four hunts I have only seen two hunters, and they were on foot like me.

My worst nightmare would be to travel a thousand or more miles, hike in some place 6 miles back and 3,000 feet up, only to have folks on 4-wheelers buzzing around.

There is a place for four-wheelers, and I'd rather hunt in the OTHER place!

 

[Mekaniks]

To each his own within the bounds of the law is my opinion.

Here in Alaska we can aerial wolf hunt, and hunt brown bears over bait in certain areas. Both are very controversial methods of hunting but none the less legal (with many restrictions of course) and as much about game population management as anything else. So if the law allows arial spotting and same day hunting of giraffe in a particular area, I don't necessarily see a problem.

I would like to think that I could hunt with a spear and a rock like my ancestors but the reality is I will stick with my .338 , 4-wheeler, boat, airplane, google earth and GPS

 

[huntermn15]

Mekaniks,

Good point, but we also need to make it clear that here in Alaska we can NOT hunt other game on the same day we fly (other then a regularly scheduled commercial flight i.e. Anchorage to Bethel, Anchorage to Dead Horse, etc...

Mike

 

[Mekaniks]

Mekaniks,

Good point, but we also need to make it clear that here in Alaska we can NOT hunt other game on the same day we fly (other then a regularly scheduled commercial flight i.e. Anchorage to Bethel, Anchorage to Dead Horse, etc...

Mike

Yes absolutely Mike. No same day flying and hunting, except arial wolf hunting.

 

[Peter Larsson]

If I should follow ethics and laws from where I am from when I goes on
a huntingtrip abroad I have to stay home.
Here we can't use any motors with anything related to hunting.
Not even trailcam or electronic gamecalls.
We must have a trained dog to follow wonded animals min. 2.hours after the shot,
or else we can't hunt at all.
If I hunted like I hunted in Southafrica in Sweden I would have allot of time to think
of a new hobby in jail. Same thing in Tunisia,Russia and the Baltic states where they din't follow up
wonded animals or where I borrowed rifles with to small calibre for our standard.
I think there very different ethics and rules in different countries so:
When you goes to Rome, do like the Romans!

 

[billc]

Ok I want to see if this would be hunting for must of us. Harvesting an animal is hunting to me.

But here is the question. You are hunting an place in africa that is free range 100,000 acres. You hope to take a buff as your main animal but would also like a kudu and zebra maybe some more. You head out first morning and find some buff tracks so your hunt is on for your buff. Your tracking the buff for miles and not looking good as now your day is coming to an end. The buff look to be winning but your Ph sees a kudu now standing 100 yds away. He has you take it since it is a good kudu and the buff could not be hunted because of how late it was. Did you hunt your kudu or just shoot it know.

Maybe all this bs about what we all think proper hunting is just the reason why are numbers keep go down. We have taken the word hunt and made it what we want it to be instead of what the word hunt really means.

 

[TokkieM]

Billc, it's called taking an opportunity when it presents itself while hunting. Getting to within 100yards of any free range Kudu means you hunted,not drive up and shoot it,which to me is not hunting,but shooting.

 

[Ado]

I shake my head reading some of this purist tripe!

Firstly none of us that have hunted for years have not wounded and then followed up an animal. Yes the time was longer, but heck if you bow hunt a large animal what the hell do you expect? Personally I think bow hunting large animals is unethical - personal opinion... I see bow hunting anything Lyne size of an eland / giraffe like using a 243 and then wondering why you don't have a one shot kill! Just stupid IMO.

Secondly we hunt very differently (like Billyc pointed out) to 50 years go - time change and so do our tools. We use scopes, range finders etc.

Finally the hunt and stalk are the important parts for me. Blind and baiting must be a personal choice where legal, but just not for me.

Ethics and morality are personal. Laws are general. We should aim to be above both, and provide dignity and respect to the animals we have the privilege to hunt.

I trust his is not taken as a personal swipe at anyone specifically - just my humble POV.

Ado

 

[Big5]

Billc, it's called taking an opportunity when it presents itself while hunting. Getting to within 100yards of any free range Kudu means you hunted,not drive up and shoot it,which to me is not hunting,but shooting.

Exactly. Being out hunting isn't necessarily restricted to the pursuit of a single game species. In most instances the more time you spend in the field and the harder you hunt the more opportunities will be presented. You're out 'hunting'.

 

[Red Leg]

Ok I want to see if this would be hunting for must of us. Harvesting an animal is hunting to me.

But here is the question. You are hunting an place in africa that is free range 100,000 acres. You hope to take a buff as your main animal but would also like a kudu and zebra maybe some more. You head out first morning and find some buff tracks so your hunt is on for your buff. Your tracking the buff for miles and not looking good as now your day is coming to an end. The buff look to be winning but your Ph sees a kudu now standing 100 yds away. He has you take it since it is a good kudu and the buff could not be hunted because of how late it was. Did you hunt your kudu or just shoot it know.

Maybe all this bs about what we all think proper hunting is just the reason why are numbers keep go down. We have taken the word hunt and made it what we want it to be instead of what the word hunt really means.

This is becoming nonsense. Draw your line where you want to Bill - and if that is whatever the law allows - then fine. I just find that a destructive behavior with regard to our sport.

I do believe that one of the wonderful things about our sport, and for most of those who participate in it, has been an adherence to ethical behavior which transcends law, and to some extent eventually shaped it. For instance, ethical quail hunters do not shoot out wild coveys. Ethical deer hunters try to take older bucks and try not to shoot nursing does early in the season. Ethical duck hunters don't sky bust leaving a marsh littered with wounded wildfowl. In most places, the law offers no penalties for any of those activities. I would hope most here would agree that these self-imposed ethical limits on our behavior make ourselves and the sport better. I also believe those behaviors make it far easier to defend it. And I agree, the antis will oppose us no matter what. We can't change them. It is the ambivalent majority that holds the keys to the future of our sport. We have no second amendment protecting hunting. I simply believe that every ethically marginal practice we condone through silence erodes our standing with that majority.

 

[JGRaider]

Billc, it's called taking an opportunity when it presents itself while hunting. Getting to within 100yards of any free range Kudu means you hunted,not drive up and shoot it,which to me is not hunting,but shooting.

Agreed. How it could be considered otherwise is a better question.

 

[billc]

Again seems we all can say that is hunting but it seems like it is taking advantage of what happens in a day out in the bush and shooting .Which for the record shooting is part of hunting. See I am not one of the guys telling people what a hunt is or is not. That is why I am ok with this being called a hunt. I dont like riding around on my high horse and talking shit about others way of hunting.For some of you to say it is a hunt by the other things being said make is very odd to me. The ph saw the kudu you did not is was pure luck the kudu was there as you did not stalk,hunt or track it down. You just put the gun on the sticks and pulled the trigger.

No were did I say it was not hunting but some like to think I was. It is all in how it was said and done how anyone could look at it. Guys who cant see it for what it is are just thinking I am looking for a fight but I am trying to show how we all can look at things differently and not be wrong about how we see it.

Again if guys would start to think about what is said and stop only seeing it there way we would all better off. Hunting is what the hunter makes of it. It must be legal to start then we decide from there what hunting is and means to us. To judge or only see things that suit yourself as hunt hurts us just as much as some of the stuff guys have problems with lately.

 

[Big5]

Ok I want to see if this would be hunting for must of us . . . . . here is the question. You are hunting an place in africa that is free range 100,000 acres. You hope to take a buff as your main animal but would also like a kudu and zebra maybe some more. You head out first morning and find some buff tracks so your hunt is on for your buff. Your tracking the buff for miles and not looking good as now your day is coming to an end. The buff look to be winning but your Ph sees a kudu now standing 100 yds away. He has you take it since it is a good kudu and the buff could not be hunted because of how late it was. Did you hunt your kudu or just shoot it know.

Again seems we all can say that is hunting but it seems like it is taking advantage of what happens in a day out in the bush and shooting .Which for the record shooting is part of hunting. See I am not one of the guys telling people what a hunt is or is not. That is why I am ok with this being called a hunt. I dont like riding around on my high horse and talking shit about others way of hunting.
. . . . . . Again if guys would start to think about what is said and stop only seeing it there way we would all better off. Hunting is what the hunter makes of it. It must be legal to start then we decide from there what hunting is and means to us. To judge or only see things that suit yourself as hunt hurts us just as much as some of the stuff guys have problems with lately.

I fail to see your point or I must be very confused. You posed a scenario and asked a question. People have answered the question from their perspective and opinions have also been stated.

I simply don't understand how you feel people are telling you what to do by answering a question you posed. As far as opinions go, they are like an asshole, everyone has one. Again, I just don't see how you have come to believe that because someone voices an opinion that differs from yours they are forcing their personal beliefs on you.

It is unrealistic for anyone to believe that everyone will agree with them on all points all of the time.

 

[TokkieM]

Yes,today we have high power scopes,rifles that shoot a mile and range finders to make sure how far the animal is from us,so we can hit it with some certainty. All of these tools,are exactly just that,tools. How you see fit to use a tool is entirely up to you,nobody is stopping anyone from getting right up close and personal to take the shot even if they have the ability to do it from further away,it's a choice.

Billc,I get your point,but I also believe that if you are in pursuit of one species and come across another and take it,you have hunted. To me it's a opportunity while hunting,just like I will 100% every time take a Lynx if I come across it while hunting something else. Let's say you were after a specific buff and came across another buff that was bigger or more mature,would it then also not be hunting?

The law says you need a PH in Africa,nothing ethical about it to me its a legal requirement. Have seen too many guys in SA being left with a guide on a hunt and not a qualified PH,client may not mind,but it is still illegal.

 

[Nyati]

I shake my head reading some of this purist tripe!

Firstly none of us that have hunted for years have not wounded and then followed up an animal. Yes the time was longer, but heck if you bow hunt a large animal what the hell do you expect? Personally I think bow hunting large animals is unethical - personal opinion... I see bow hunting anything Lyne size of an eland / giraffe like using a 243 and then wondering why you don't have a one shot kill! Just stupid IMO.

Secondly we hunt very differently (like Billyc pointed out) to 50 years go - time change and so do our tools. We use scopes, range finders etc.

Finally the hunt and stalk are the important parts for me. Blind and baiting must be a personal choice where legal, but just not for me.

Ethics and morality are personal. Laws are general. We should aim to be above both, and provide dignity and respect to the animals we have the privilege to hunt.

I trust his is not taken as a personal swipe at anyone specifically - just my humble POV.

Ado

I am not a bowhunter, but let me tell you this, I know a hunter here in Spain who has taken most species in Africa, up to and including elephant !

Ethical, by all means, he is a very experienced hunter and an excellent shot with his bow. But again, this is not for everyone, bowhunting is demanding you have to get in closer, use the proper equipment, and have perfect shot placement for a quick humane kill.

Obviously, anyone who does not have the necessary skills should not use a bow for hunting.