Is the Winchester Model 70 Safari Express too light?

[Nevada Mike]

My model 70 SE in .375 H&H weighs in at 9.0 lbs, without scope mounts and scope, sling, etc. About 10 lbs. ready to hunt.

 

[Rare Breed]

Looking at the latest Safari Express rifles on the Winchester website, the rifle weighs exactly 9lbs 0 oz for all 3 options (375H&H, 416 RemMag and 458 WinMag.

I've heard Kevin Robertson state that a 375H&H rifle should weigh 10lbs due to recoil so I imagine even heavier rifles would be recommended for the 416s and 458s?

My CZ 550 (375) weighs 0.3 lbs heavier than my Model 70 (458). I'm guessing I'll be in for some stout recoil? What weight is everyone else running on their DG rifles?

I’ll tell you right now even with a great fit a 9 pound 458 will kick the sh$& out of you

 

[Rare Breed]

Some things to consider with rifle weight, especially manufacturer claims.

There is a modern trend towards light rifles. Manufacturers know this.

As such, their 'official' weight method involves weighing at least a couple of examples, picking the lightest one, then rounding down.

To whit; my Win 70 Safari Express in 375H&H was not 9lbs. It was more like 9lbs 4oz.

That's 'naked'. But most people don't carry and shoot 'em naked.

So, 9lbs and change naked. Add QD rings, bases and a 1-6x24mm scope. 10lbs and change. Add 3 rounds and a sling. 10.5lbs or so.

Personally I think that's a good weight for a 375. Mine was very comfortable to shoot with a scope, and plenty comfortable enough shooting the irons at 9.5lbs or so.

1lb less would've been absolutely fine, but I'd be perfectly happy if it were 1lb more.

In my opinion your final weight is perfect for the caliber and exactly matches my 375 which is a pleasure to shoot at that weight with perfect LOP to me

 

[Rare Breed]

People talk about recoil headaches, detached retinas, tinnitus, bad shoulders etc. I’m starting to get the feeling that any recoil and muzzle blast past a reasonable solution for the task at hand is incurring more pain for no reason, and probably even counterproductive.

Be careful my friend…experience says right powder at lowest grains + desired FPS within PSI with proper fit LOP and caliber weight equals my ability to easily shoot up to 500 NE. These details are just missed too many times based on my years and personal experience on our great forum

 

[Alistair]

To me, 9 lbs without scope is the max weight I would want a 375 H&H to be. The Model 70s though very nice rifles tend to be front heavy for me. I like the balance point to be in the middle of the magazine floor plate. Personal preference. If I were to buy a new 375 H&H it would be a Model 70. I would work with my gunsmith to get the balance point right.

I'd agree that the Win 70 Safari Express is muzzle heavy, and I'd also agree that it's personal preference, or in my case situational.

I really liked the balance in my 375 because I was primarily using that rifle as a driven boar / running target competition gun. The front heavy balance was of great benefit to the stability and smoothness of the swing in that situation, giving the gun a bit of inertia and counteracting any minor wobbles during trigger pull. A little harder to get moving in the first place, but a very stable platform after that and if you start swinging during the mount, you have a bit more leverage to start rotation whilst it's held tight to your chest.

It was also quite good for standing or kneeling shots as you could mount then relax down through the point of aim during the trigger pull. Again, the nose heaviness aids stability and stops too much wobble, especially if you do a hasty sling or use a 'Cooper' type sling for some isometric tension.

Sitting, prone, off a bench, it didn't really matter much either way.

However, it was a real detriment to snap shots and quick target acquisition at closer ranges. I found that the simplest method to work around it was to do the shotgun technique of low ready, step into the target, mount and shoot in a single movement so you can get the target acquired whilst the gun is held close to the body. With the scope on 1x and with both eyes open this was quite effective. Still not as quick as something light and more neutrally balanced like my 270 or my Marlin though and it punishes poor footwork or mounting technique heavily.

For a real charge situation, I think that any change in the animals direction of travel whilst you're trying to acquire the target would be a problem.

If you want to try this sort of 'dynamic' shooting assessment yourself, the easiest method I found was to get a laser pointer and a blank wall. Stand a reasonable distance away (say 10-20yds) and get someone to flick on and then move the pointer in varying directions (across the wall = crosser, down the wall = charge, etc) upon your call. Try to get the crosshairs covering the dot as fast as you can testing various methods for mount and swing. Obviously do it with an unloaded gun with the bolt out, but it's an informative exercise.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I'd agree that the Win 70 Safari Express is muzzle heavy, and I'd also agree that it's personal preference, or in my case situational.

I really liked the balance in my 375 because I was primarily using that rifle as a driven boar / running target competition gun. The front heavy balance was of great benefit to the stability and smoothness of the swing in that situation, giving the gun a bit of inertia and counteracting any minor wobbles during trigger pull. A little harder to get moving in the first place, but a very stable platform after that and if you start swinging during the mount, you have a bit more leverage to start rotation whilst it's held tight to your chest.

It was also quite good for standing or kneeling shots as you could mount then relax down through the point of aim during the trigger pull. Again, the nose heaviness aids stability and stops too much wobble, especially if you do a hasty sling or use a 'Cooper' type sling for some isometric tension.

Sitting, prone, off a bench, it didn't really matter much either way.

However, it was a real detriment to snap shots and quick target acquisition at closer ranges. I found that the simplest method to work around it was to do the shotgun technique of low ready, step into the target, mount and shoot in a single movement so you can get the target acquired whilst the gun is held close to the body. With the scope on 1x and with both eyes open this was quite effective. Still not as quick as something light and more neutrally balanced like my 270 or my Marlin though and it punishes poor footwork or mounting technique heavily.

For a real charge situation, I think that any change in the animals direction of travel whilst you're trying to acquire the target would be a problem.

If you want to try this sort of 'dynamic' shooting assessment yourself, the easiest method I found was to get a laser pointer and a blank wall. Stand a reasonable distance away (say 10-20yds) and get someone to flick on and then move the pointer in varying directions (across the wall = crosser, down the wall = charge, etc) upon your call. Try to get the crosshairs covering the dot as fast as you can testing various methods for mount and swing. Obviously do it with an unloaded gun with the bolt out, but it's an informative exercise.

I agree that the standard M70 SE in 375 is a bit muzzle heavy. But I find this helpful when shooting off sticks. My 375 barrel is heavier than the barrel on my 404J but that's OK with me.

 

[Laniarius]

My Model 70 Safari in 375 weighs just under 11 lb with a VX-5HD 2-10x42, Warne QD rings and mount, and sling (leather by Montana slings). I guess this is the upper limit of the typical accepted range, and maybe it's selection bias but the majority of commenters in this and other threads seem to have lighter rifles all-in.

I admit this makes me wonder a bit if I'm doing something wrong, but then I see a number of posts saying that a scope in the 2-10 or 2-12 range is great for versatility for the 375 and that makes sense to me. Yes, I could shave half a pound with a VX-3 1.5-5, but for my intended use of one all around rifle, I can accept that trade off.

Maybe some day I'll try something like a McMillan stock, but I like the factory wood on my rifle and the fit is just about perfect for me. I have the scope on low rings and the cheek weld isn't much different for scope or irons. Shooting off a bench isn't bad and it's no problem at all off sticks.

Another data point is to look at the high end stock rifles, like a Rigby Big Game. I think those are often made to fit so weight will vary, but from one website (a Canadian retailer) I see a stated weight of 10 lb bare for the Rigby in 375. I don't think that people will buy a Rigby and then immediately swap out the stock for a lighter weight one in fibre glass... So while 10.94 lb is at the high end, there are apparently some better 375 rifles out there that are even heavier with a scope.

I'll see what it's like after I take it on a trip (nothing currently planned but hoping within a few years). At the very least, the higher weight can partly compensate for not making it to the gym given the hunting and sundowner schedule.

 

[Chaplin]

Too light or not light enough? Do you people want ?

 

[Laniarius]

Too light or not light enough? Do you people want ?

Haha, fair enough. My comment in the context of the thread title is a bit contradictory. I see this thread as just the latest of several discussing preferred weight for a .375 H&H rifle.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I think it's just right. The only thing I'd change is to make it a six shooter with a drop magazine and a 5½ round capacity so I could have either five with an empty chamber or stoke it up.

 

[ChrisG]

My .375 was muzzle heavy, but if they use the same profile for the barrel, then the .458 would be too light. My Whitworth 458 has the same problem and I solved it by adding weight to the stock.