Is the Winchester Model 70 Safari Express too light?

[Wishfulthinker580]

If I had a.458 with a bit to much recoil I would put a good muzzle brake on it and add a little weight to inside of stock preferably bedded mercury wt. but bedded lead will do nicely.
Best,
Pat

Sounds like a good plan minus the brake

 

[Safari Dave]

Brakes are the spawn of Satan, on the range or in the field.

.50 BMG users get a pass...

Not on a hunting rifle, unless the user is the only person around. (IM(somewhat)UO).

 

[gzr]

People talk about recoil headaches, detached retinas, tinnitus, bad shoulders etc. I’m starting to get the feeling that any recoil and muzzle blast past a reasonable solution for the task at hand is incurring more pain for no reason, and probably even counterproductive.

 

[Northern Shooter]

People talk about recoil headaches, detached retinas, tinnitus, bad shoulders etc. I’m starting to get the feeling that any recoil and muzzle blast past a reasonable solution for the task at hand is incurring more pain for no reason, and probably even counterproductive.

Yeah this was a first hearing about that for me. I've only owned cartridges up to the 375 prior to this .458 so never had any...health concerns regarding the felt recoil.

Anyone else do some damage to their bodies shooting .458's and up? 505 Gibbs? 577 NE? 460 Weatherby?

 

[Doug3006]

No damage done by my 458 Lott. Is it pleasant to shoot? Not exactly, but the affect it had on an old dugga boy was gratifying.

 

[geopat]

Sounds like a good plan minus the brake

Brakes are the spawn of Satan, on the range or in the field.

.50 BMG users get a pass...

Not on a hunting rifle, unless the user is the only person around. (IM(somewhat)UO).

Ok, use a can.
Or,
As my grandma used to say;
“Each to his own said the old woman, as she kissed the cow”

 

[Shako Badhan]

I also hate brakes, they make even a 556/223 painful to be near. Shot one inside a car once in a class… never again.

What about Mag-na-porting? I say a nice older Safari Express in 416 for sale recently that had it done. Was tempted but was not sure of it because of the porting.

 

[D.M.V]

I had a m70 in 338win it was the most uncomfortable obnoxious shooting gun I owned. The stock ended up cracking and I sold it. Was a beautiful looking rifle but I determined after working up loads for it that it was too light. Just my opinion.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I am not wild about the M70 standard stocks. I had my Safari Express restocked and added a Sunnyhill extended bottom metal so the I can load 4 down.

 

[Arthur Morta]

I am not wild about the M70 standard stocks. I had my Safari Express restocked and added a Sunnyhill extended bottom metal so the I can load 4 down.

What calibre is Your M70 Mike?

 

[Nevada Mike]

What calibre is Your M70 Mike?

I have three M70s... (all LH) the Safari Express is a .375 H&H, Another is a 280AI and a rebarrel to 308 Norma Mag is in the works on the third one.

All are restocked to suit me, as I find that I do not get along with the factory stocks and they heavier than they need to be.

 

[TOBY458]

Having owned a Safari Express in both 458 Win and 416 Rem. I'd say the weight is about right for those two calibers. Recoil is very similar between the two. Once a scope, 4 rounds of ammo and a sling are added, you're around 10lbs 12oz or so. Recoil is manageable if you do your homework. But I personally don't like heavy rifles. When hunting, you carry the rifle way more than you shoot it.
My current 458 Win is a Blaser R8 Profesional. All set to go with a sling, Nikon 1-4 scope, and 4 rounds of ammo, my weight is 10lbs 2oz. With a 23.5" barrel, the R8 is about the same overall length as a 20" standard bolt gun. Having a short overall length and a stock that fits me very well, this gun is both easy to carry, and comfortable to shoot.
I also use it with a Trjjicon RMR, which brings the overall weight down to 9lbs 2oz. Even set up like this, the recoil is very manageable.
IMO, if you need a muzzle brake to make a rifle shootable for you, then it's best to go down in caliber.

 

[StevenQ718]

Having owned a Safari Express in both 458 Win and 416 Rem. I'd say the weight is about right for those two calibers. Recoil is very similar between the two. Once a scope, 4 rounds of ammo and a sling are added, you're around 10lbs 12oz or so. Recoil is manageable if you do your homework. But I personally don't like heavy rifles. When hunting, you carry the rifle way more than you shoot it.
My current 458 Win is a Blaser R8 Profesional. All set to go with a sling, Nikon 1-4 scope, and 4 rounds of ammo, my weight is 10lbs 2oz. With a 23.5" barrel, the R8 is about the same overall length as a 20" standard bolt gun. Having a short overall length and a stock that fits me very well, this gun is both easy to carry, and comfortable to shoot.
I also use it with a Trjjicon RMR, which brings the overall weight down to 9lbs 2oz. Even set up like this, the recoil is very manageable.
IMO, if you need a muzzle brake to make a rifle shootable for you, then it's best to go down in caliber.

Hi Tobby! Where did you get the 458 Win Mag barrel for your Blaser R8? I have one chambered in 416 Rem Mag.

 

[colorado]

No, it is not too light. In fact, the .375 is front heavy. The .416; however, is downright perfection. Scoped, my .416 is 11.2 pounds empty. The weights aren't correct on the website. The .375 is heavier than the .416 and the .416 is heavier than the .458. Reason being, the same barrel blanks are used but obviously more material has to be removed to make way for the bigger calibers.

To me, 9 lbs without scope is the max weight I would want a 375 H&H to be. The Model 70s though very nice rifles tend to be front heavy for me. I like the balance point to be in the middle of the magazine floor plate. Personal preference. If I were to buy a new 375 H&H it would be a Model 70. I would work with my gunsmith to get the balance point right.

 

[thriller]

Looking at the latest Safari Express rifles on the Winchester website, the rifle weighs exactly 9lbs 0 oz for all 3 options (375H&H, 416 RemMag and 458 WinMag.

I've heard Kevin Robertson state that a 375H&H rifle should weigh 10lbs due to recoil so I imagine even heavier rifles would be recommended for the 416s and 458s?

My CZ 550 (375) weighs 0.3 lbs heavier than my Model 70 (458). I'm guessing I'll be in for some stout recoil? What weight is everyone else running on their DG rifles?

no its too heavy fo my taste

 

[TOBY458]

Hi Tobby! Where did you get the 458 Win Mag barrel for your Blaser R8? I have one chambered in 416 Rem Mag.

I bought a complete R8 Jager in 458 WM. I sold the stock, but kept the barrel and bolt assembly. I had a Professional synthetic stock I had bought used and put the 458 barrel on it

 

[Ruraldoc]

I agree with JHT that the M70 express is about perfect in 416 and a little muzzle heavy in 375.
As previously stated the current Model 70 Alaskan is the sweet spot in a 375. Better balanced and about a pound lighter than the express 375.

An express in any caliber will be over 10 pounds with scope,mounts,and ammo if recoil is a consideration.

I think my three Safari rifles are about perfect for me and are sized properly for their respective chamberings.

Model 70 Alaskan in 375 H&H
Model 70 Express in 416 Rem
Brno 602 in 458win mag/ 458 Lott

So far the 416 has been used for Buffalo as well as kudu and zebra.

The 375 has only been used for wild hogs but will go to Africa for Eland,plains game and hopefully lion.

The 458 is for hippo on land and perhaps elephant.

Only thing missing is a suitable double.Probably never get one as it would cost more than all my bolt guns and their optics combined.

 

[Philip Glass]

On my recent safari in Zimbabwe York Mare and I were discussing problems clients have on safari. He said one of the biggest problems he has seen as a PH is the clients having a rifle that is too heavy for them to carry. Yes we all must be able to shoot our rifle well but also carry it for days on end. I found this interesting and thought I would pass it along.

 

[mark-hunter]

What weight is everyone else running on their DG rifles?

My ZKK 602 in 375H&H is: 4.2 kg rifle, + 0.51 kg scope swaro, + 0.1 kg mount
4.81 kg total - 10.6 pounds.
6 rounds in mag and sling, not accounted

 

[colorado]

My CZ 550 in 500 Jeffery is 12 lbs with scope and rings unloaded. Wouldn't want it an ounce lighter. Working out with two 15 lb dumbells works wonders.