Is retiring to Africa a wise decision?

[WyoBull]

They are not unique to Africa but there's no comparison between SA and any other developed country let alone US.
As we speak there's an ongoing 6-10 hours a day load shedding (blackouts) going on and as my son who's living there told me there's no end in sight. Lucky for him US Government is providing housing with massive generators for the whole compound.
This is not your run of the mill Texas or CA power failure because of high demand or a major weather event.
It is EVERY DAY and this year there was only one day they had power for 24 hours!
Businesses who can't afford generators are closing, people are food poisoning, insurance companies are hiring people to direct traffic at the intersections, people are afraid of using elevators, criminals taking advantage of it...
There's even an app for people to know when the load shedding will happen so they can organize their lives around it.
This is unique to South Africa and also happening in Zimbabwe.

We just got back from South Africa about 19 days ago. We were at a lodge East of Rustenburg. The lodge had power outages every day of the 10 days we were in camp. They lasted between 10 minutes to several hours.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Could not agree more. As a retired CFO of a Fortune 100 sized entity, if you’re not the managing partner or present full- time - you’re asking for troubles. Sorry to be so cynical.

100% correct.

Lon

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

All sounds very romantic. My wife is ill right now with cancer and we are very fortunate to live within a 2 hour drive from NYC. Our life now takes us in and out of the city on a weekly bases and actually are renting an appt for a month at this time while she gets daily treatment. God willing, as the doctors are communicating thanks to the level of care she is receiving at Memorial Sloan Kettering life may go back to normal within a year of diagnosis. I don't believe that this would be the case if we were not located within easy reach of world class health care. I guess my point is, I'll fly for pleasure but have learned it is very valuable to drive for world class care when the crap hits the fan.

Having spent quite a bit of time and most of my life savings in Sloan Kettering and time in African hospitals there is no comparison in care and cost.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

A man of my experience "gathers intelligence locally". Thanks for your input. Did you notice that Zimbabwe was not in my list of countries? Hmmm, why would that be?

you must be under drugs if you want to do that.
And I dont belive that
I was last there last year, I love the nature and the people I am friends with there.
When you drive out of Harare or Bulawayo airport ,you don't see a single white face walking there.Also a hint for many things.


@ Kevin-
all well and good what you say.
But if you look at a country economically, you know better than me that RSA is heading south.
There are big problems with the energy supply alone. The state-owned energy supplier Eskom could drag the entire national economy into the abyss. Up to twelve hours of power cuts anywhere in the country, often every day.

The constant power cuts are a seismograph for the stability of an economy.
If this doesn't work, internal security will soon be worth nothing.
And when I see the gardens secured with Nato wire or walled-in broken glass bottles on the fences, I don't want to leave my wife there alone.
Others have to, fortunately I can choose.

But maybe I'm just a pessimist.
Sorry for my opinion.

Foxi I live in Zimbabwe by choice. Maybe the reason you do no see white faces walking is that most drive cars.

 

[Tanks]

Having spent quite a bit of time and most of my life savings in Sloan Kettering and time in African hospitals there is no comparison in care and cost.

Well, the cost, if one has insurance, is not much at all. However, it is a big game between insurance companies and health care providers.

An example. Six weeks ago, I went in for a hernia repair surgery. A simple procedure in that I was in and out of the hospital within 6 hours including prep, surgery, and recovery.

The total bill to Medicare was $62K. Medicare allowed only $10,800 and paid 80% of it, the supplemental insurance paid the rest, and I paid zero.

Now, the $62K was outrageous. However, the $10.8K was also not right for the services I got. Use of a pre-op room and care by a pre-op nurse for an hour, administration of a nerve blocker by a doctor prior to surgery, anesthesiologist and a surgeon for the procedure, two surgery nurses and countless resident doctors for 2.5 hours, use of the operating room and supplies, post op room use for 2 hours and another nurse there. The real cost should have been between $20K-$30K. I did not include the free valet parking, and administrative services for check-in etc.. at the hospital.

 

[WAB]

100% correct.

Lon

Totally agree. I would not want to be an ag de tee owner anywhere in Africa.

 

[Doubleplay]

Well, the cost, if one has insurance, is not much at all. However, it is a big game between insurance companies and health care providers.

An example. Six weeks ago, I went in for a hernia repair surgery. A simple procedure in that I was in and out of the hospital within 6 hours including prep, surgery, and recovery.

The total bill to Medicare was $62K. Medicare allowed only $10,800 and paid 80% of it, the supplemental insurance paid the rest, and I paid zero.

Now, the $62K was outrageous. However, the $10.8K was also not right for the services I got. Use of a pre-op room and care by a pre-op nurse for an hour, administration of a nerve blocker by a doctor prior to surgery, anesthesiologist and a surgeon for the procedure, two surgery nurses and countless resident doctors for 2.5 hours, use of the operating room and supplies, post op room use for 2 hours and another nurse there. The real cost should have been between $20K-$30K. I did not include the free valet parking, and administrative services for check-in etc.. at the hospital.

First, I hope all is well and speedy recovery.
Above mentioned surgery in Germany or Norway is around $10000 max in the best private hospital.
If you get it done in Mexico it's around $5000 which again in a private hospital with excellent care.
Our health care system in this country is broken and not sustainable and I'm hearing this everyday from my daughter in law who's a physician in the system.
And don't get me start from the drug prices...

 

[bowjijohn]

I love Southern Africa

It is, after all the land of my birth and the home of 2 generations before me

If I were to return or to retire back home, I’d follow the following rules

Take them or ignore them as you wish - they are, after all, only my thoughts

1. Don’t invest anything you are not able and prepared to loose

2. Never take a 51% partner in any investment- if it is a requirement of the country- run!

3. Always keep a place back ‘home’

4. Always maintain an escape route

5. Do not imagine, for a moment, that ‘living in country’ is remotely like being an occasional tourist

6. No - local inhabitants do not think like you - nor do they aspire to be like you

7. Only Americans think like Americans- the rest of the world does not

8. Be prepared to change, be changed and, at times, be disappointed and doubt the sanity of your decision

9. Do not believe that the law is on your side - it is not

10. Enjoy! Take a chance ! It beats wondering what might have been

 

[PARA45]

@bowjijohn, I believe you nailed it sir.

I love #10. I believe in the end that is what matters. Regardless, when the end of the game arrives, we can't take any of this with us. The memories will be all we take with us. Just the like the guns we own, the mounts in our homes, etc, etc, they all stay behind and if there is no one in the family who enjoys them as we do, they will be sold Pennies to the Dollar. We will be gone and feel no pain. Ah but the enjoyment of what we did will live with us.

 

[Tanks]

First, I hope all is well and speedy recovery.
Above mentioned surgery in Germany or Norway is around $10000 max in the best private hospital.
If you get it done in Mexico it's around $5000 which again in a private hospital with excellent care.
Our health care system in this country is broken and not sustainable and I'm hearing this everyday from my daughter in law who's a physician in the system.
...

Even cheaper in Pakistan and India at excellent private hospitals. I think for minor surgeries private hospitals in most places around the world are just as good as the USA. However, I'd hate to go into cardiac arrest at a clinic in Mexico etc..

One other thing also is the cost of training physicians. Last I read, average M.D. had a student loan of $200K, that is before residencies etc.. Medical training is also different in other countries. Most go from secondary school to medical school. They do not have to have a bachelors degree prior to medical school.

 

[Doubleplay]

Even cheaper in Pakistan and India at excellent private hospitals. I think for minor surgeries private hospitals in most places around the world are just as good as the USA. However, I'd hate to go into cardiac arrest at a clinic in Mexico etc..

One other thing also is the cost of training physicians. Last I read, average M.D. had a student loan of $200K, that is before residencies etc.. Medical training is also different in other countries. Most go from secondary school to medical school. They do not have to have a bachelors degree prior to medical school.

Spot on about student loans. My daughter in law still paying after 10 years of practice!
As far cardiac arrest in a hospital it all depends who's the attending physician and staff at the time anywhere in the World.
Where we shine in the medical field is oncology because of the money we have for R&D.
Problem is our best and brightest started to shy away from medical fields and imagine how this will effect the future of medical care in this country.
Like I said system is totally broken and as long as we have politicians(left or right) in the pockets of insurance companies it won't get fixed!
However this a topic of a separate thread in itself.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

I was very impressed with the South Africa medical services I got this past April while on safari. I had an allergic reaction to a pollen or dust. By the time we reached camp I could barely breath. PH rushed me towards Rutsenburg. We met an ambulance he had called for outside of town. They took me on in to hospital while administering a nebulizer. Anyways. Ambulance ride and ER total bill was less than $250 US and I was treated well.
In the US that was $10k minimum billed to insurance at least.

 

[Doubleplay]

I was very impressed with the South Africa medical services I got this past April while on safari. I had an allergic reaction to a pollen or dust. By the time we reached camp I could barely breath. PH rushed me towards Rutsenburg. We met an ambulance he had called for outside of town. They took me on in to hospital while administering a nebulizer. Anyways. Ambulance ride and ER total bill was less than $250 US and I was treated well.
In the US that was $10k minimum billed to insurance at least.

Your out of pocket would have been more than $250 in the US.

 

[steve white]

Well, the cost, if one has insurance, is not much at all. However, it is a big game between insurance companies and health care providers.

An example. Six weeks ago, I went in for a hernia repair surgery. A simple procedure in that I was in and out of the hospital within 6 hours including prep, surgery, and recovery.

The total bill to Medicare was $62K. Medicare allowed only $10,800 and paid 80% of it, the supplemental insurance paid the rest, and I paid zero.

Now, the $62K was outrageous. However, the $10.8K was also not right for the services I got. Use of a pre-op room and care by a pre-op nurse for an hour, administration of a nerve blocker by a doctor prior to surgery, anesthesiologist and a surgeon for the procedure, two surgery nurses and countless resident doctors for 2.5 hours, use of the operating room and supplies, post op room use for 2 hours and another nurse there. The real cost should have been between $20K-$30K. I did not include the free valet parking, and administrative services for check-in etc.. at the hospital.

What medical procedures 'ought to cost" is a real bailiwick! It is my opinion that costs have gone off the rails because of insurance itself. No one ever thinks to ask "can I get a better deal' or shop another doctor! No, the insurance will pay therefore I don't care what it costs, and so now the normalized costs are higher than anyone without insurance CAN afford to pay with cash. The same will probably happen to auto repair charges given the new popularity of auto repair insurance."Nobody will care what auto repair costs soar to. If costs rise, heck if a percentage of (the now higher and higher) costs rise, soon we'll all be priced out.

 

[sestoppelman]

Mark. Have you thought about Australia or New Zealand politically stable world class health care forigners can buy land, great climate in the right area good hunting especialy in NZ both countries run by Left wing wankers at the moment but not as bad as your Joe B and this can change at the next election culture very similar to the US. Lots of wide open spaces. you are not going to be kidnapped
or robbed on the streets.

While we may have Joe, temporarily, he wont be around for a second term, and no doubt he is the worst president in modern times, we also have something Down Under lacks, a Bill of Rights, that keeps would be dictators like Joe from getting too far before being slapped down.

I would trade places with no other country on earth for more than a short period of visiting time.

 

[HWL]

First and foremost, keep your money in a safe place.
Never ever invest in a joy, you also can rent.
Travel to nice destinations, have fun there, and leave.....
Because there are countless other nice places around the world to see....

HWL

 

[Doubleplay]

I have a feeling... this thread will be moved to political section, soon.

 

[sestoppelman]

First and foremost, keep your money in a safe place.
Never ever invest in a joy, you also can rent.
Travel to nice destinations, have fun there, and leave.....
Because there are countless other nice places around the world to see....

HWL

A guy I worked for once told me, "if it floats, flies or f***s, rent it!"

 

[geoff rath]

All sounds very romantic. My wife is ill right now with cancer and we are very fortunate to live within a 2 hour drive from NYC. Our life now takes us in and out of the city on a weekly bases and actually are renting an appt for a month at this time while she gets daily treatment. God willing, as the doctors are communicating thanks to the level of care she is receiving at Memorial Sloan Kettering life may go back to normal within a year of diagnosis. I don't believe that this would be the case if we were not located within easy reach of world class health care. I guess my point is, I'll fly for pleasure but have learned it is very valuable to drive for world class care when the crap hits the fan.

Prayers for the Lady...

 

[Hogpatrol]

Arrived back to the states from Joberg on July 31. Walking the aisles towards passport control, I had to go around two young black males standing under this sign. Their arms were extended over their heads and they had cell phones in their hands. I realized later on they were taking photos. Got me to thinking, as screwed up as this country seems right now, there is no better place on this planet to live or to be born.