Is it ok to give your PH a size wish list

[Dr Ray]

Some game ranches can likely guarantee a threshold - most free range areas would be less likely to do so. The PH's in my experience, regardless of concession type, have all been dedicated to finding mature (my most important criteria) representative animals. On a given hunt some would make the "book" some would not. I entered several after my first African hunt, and haven't done so again. And I have taken many subsequently that would score very high in both SCI or R&W. However, I can certainly understand if that is a goal. I have never been urged to shoot what I would call a "cull" animal while "trophy" hunting. And I am confident that you will find yourself in a constant dialogue with your PH about what animal to take. All will leave the final decision to shoot up to you. Your PH will want you to be happy, and assuming it is an environment that will produce your goal, will do everything in his power to ensure you both are successful. I would just be very careful about making judgements about the success of a safari based on the measurement of the tape.

I agree 100%.

 

[billc]

Sounds like a perfect opportunity to take advantage of the no day fee offer. Free hunt or awesome trophies. Can't wait to read the hunt report!

Yup it would be a good hunt to take. Because we take the biggest animal you can find no matter what the guys pays. Free days fees and hunt off the standard pricelist that is shown on website for all to see. No switching of quality animals at all on our offers. Once again you can think you know but really have no clue how everyone runs there outfit and what some offer. I say what we do or what I have found myself. The correct way to say what our offer was would be is FREE DAY FEES and AWESOME TROPHIES not either or.

By the look of it Tally ho seems to run the same kind of place so I guess if you do your homework the right hunts can be found. I know some of you great white hunters are much better at following PH's around then me and that fence makes my hunts not as good as yours but I can live with that.

Plus maybe some of you should talk about how the wild areas have been stocked to bring game numbers back up because of being poached out. More then one place in so called wild africa has had buff and plains game added.I know those guys only do that in wild Africa to help nature not make money. They only hunt in SA to make money all other places do it out of the kindness of there heart.



Buckdog as far as 44 sable or 30 " roan you want. Well we do not over promise or have a shop by size on any of are normal offers as most hunters don't hunt like that. We have had guys hunt sable at the prices we posted and have taken sable from 37" to 42" and all cost the same. We also don't tell people they will take a 44" or even a 42 but take the best we can find.

Yes Like many other places we can book a place that has them and you will pay more. But they are also not our main areas and just a place we would use to get what the hunter wants. We do straight forward deals and try to work with any hunter to reach there goals if we can.

We had talked about a gold medal hunt before and I told you then we take gold medal stuff off the place we hunt. But I also told you I could not guarantee a gold or no pay if not gold animal. Not sure I could be more upfront then that to anyone.

I have no problem with your goals at all just gets old when people keep talking like they know how everyone sells there hunts. Yes if you want you can hunt by size and pay by size. You can also hunt and take your chances and get great animals also with the right place was my point.

 

[Royal27]

Once again you can think you know but really have no clue how everyone runs there outfit and what some offer.

Never said I knew how everyone ran their outfit Bill. Do you know how everyone runs their outfit? My original statement was based on knowledge and information I gained from YOUR words in this thread (I quoted them if you'd like to go back and check), nothing else. Now if you gave incorrect information, or information that doesn't apply to your outfit and of which you don't really know either, then I'm wrong and I apologize to the forum.

Because we take the biggest animal you can find no matter what the guys pays

I truly believe PP tries to get the best trophies they can for a client in the area you hunt. I also believe that likely 95%+ of outfitters do the same. You're not special or different in that regard. Sorry, but it's table stakes. Same applies to sliding size scale by the way. Especially here on AH a sliding scale is almost non existent. Well, except for elephant, and PP does that too it seems. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think your elephant are take whatever you can find?

Plus maybe some of you should talk about how the wild areas have been stocked to bring game numbers back up because of being poached out. More then one place in so called wild africa has had buff and plains game added.I know those guys only do that in wild Africa to help nature not make money. They only hunt in SA to make money all other places do it out of the kindness of there heart.

Straw man argument and not relevant to the discussion.

 

[Red Leg]

Plus maybe some of you should talk about how the wild areas have been stocked to bring game numbers back up because of being poached out. More then one place in so called wild africa has had buff and plains game added.I know those guys only do that in wild Africa to help nature not make money. They only hunt in SA to make money all other places do it out of the kindness of there heart.

Seriously!?! That may be the silliest thing I have ever read on this site (which is saying something). Of course some areas have had game reintroduced following decades of bush war. Just like we have done in the desert Southwest in reintroducing the desert bighorn following over shooting in the 19th century. To somehow equate, let's say, the burgeoning wild buffalo population of the Zambezi Delta which is being carefully managed over thousands of square kilometers by both concession owners and the government with the management of a game farm in South Africa is as ludicrous as saying the bighorn effort is the same thing as the Triple 7 game ranch in the Hill Country.

disagree again!!!
maybe I run a different outfit
at Tallyho a kudu is a kudu, 48" or 60"
a sable is a sable 36" or 44"
a roan is a roan 24" or 30"
and a tsessebe too
my point is most places don't run like that and if they have a big enough area that is self sustainable there is no way you can know every animal on there.
and BTW the more they measure, capture, move animals the more expensive it should be, vets don't work for free

regards

And Stuart, I am certain you run an absolutely ethical operation. But on a 10k acre property which you and your team are traversing almost daily, you can't tell me that you don't have a running informal inventory of the your game and where at any given time you would be likely to find - fill in the blank. Otherwise, you would never be able to establish a shooting plan. You are charging the same for a 36 that you are a 44-inch sable - good on you. But I would suggest that you are able to determine when and with whom you will be able to offer the best opportunity at the 44. That would be true of a great whitetail on a ranch here. Sure there can be the surprise animal - but that is fairly rare. And I have no criticism of that at all. It's your property, your investment, and your game animals.

But all of this goes to why I much prefer hunting tribal areas and wilderness concessions. For 10 days to two-weeks, my PH and I are covering hundreds of kilometers looking for the best animals we can find. And no, a coastal free-range sable won't be as large as a supplement fed bull from a South African ranch. But I'll take my hunting story any day.

 

[Art Lambart II]

From time to time here on AH an outfitter or a PH will pass on some info on how not to be a bad client. They talk about a number of issues but the one issue they all talk about is clients not clearly communicating their expectations. This includes things like what foods you like to eat, what you like to drink, what are you allergic to, what physical limitations you may have, what animals would you like to hunt and yes what trophy size if any are you looking for.

I'll be hunting with BillC and Pawprint this July on the AH group hunt they are offering and I've had lots of conversations and PM's with Bill on this very issue. Bill has done an excellent job of managing my expectations and being very clear on what I should expect during my safari. Sharing this type of information only helps to improve you experience and makes the Outfitter’s and PH’s job much easier.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Seriously!?! That may be the silliest thing I have ever read on this site (which is saying something). Of course some areas have had game reintroduced following decades of bush war. Just like we have done in the desert Southwest in reintroducing the desert bighorn following over shooting in the 19th century. To somehow equate, let's say, the burgeoning wild buffalo population of the Zambezi Delta which is being carefully managed over thousands of square kilometers by both concession owners and the government with the management of a game farm in South Africa is as ludicrous as saying the bighorn effort is the same thing as the Triple 7 game ranch in the Hill Country.



And Stuart, I am certain you run an absolutely ethical operation. But on a 10k acre property which you and your team are traversing almost daily, you can't tell me that you don't have a running informal inventory of the your game and where at any given time you would be likely to find - fill in the blank. Otherwise, you would never be able to establish a shooting plan. You are charging the same for a 36 that you are a 44-inch sable - good on you. But I would suggest that you are able to determine when and with whom you will be able to offer the best opportunity at the 44. That would be true of a great whitetail on a ranch here. Sure there can be the surprise animal - but that is fairly rare. And I have no criticism of that at all. It's your property, your investment, and your game animals.

But all of this goes to why I much prefer hunting tribal areas and wilderness concessions. For 10 days to two-weeks, my PH and I are covering hundreds of kilometers looking for the best animals we can find. And no, a coastal free-range sable won't be as large as a supplement fed bull from a South African ranch. But I'll take my hunting story any day.

Sir, I get what you are saying , but can't agree with you entirely. Sure, there are some species where you will always have an idea of what is running around. If you know for sure you have a few big Eland bulls for example, or a big Sable bull on a few thousand acres, it speaks for itself. I think it also depends on the area in South Africa. You can in no ways, compare the Limpopo/NW with either Kwa Zulu Natal or the Eastern Cape. In the Eastern Cape with the continuous hills/mountains and thick vegetation, there are many animals that only appear, once they have lived in a thick valley for most of their lives, only to be pushed into a more accessible and visible area by a stronger, younger animal. This will be the first time that we see him ans possibly get a shot at him.
I spend between 200-250 days of the year hunting the area, so, I see a lot out there, and will often start to pattern animals, if I see the same individual animal, possibly an extraordinary wide Kudu that is easy to identify, in the same valley over a span of two months, it becomes apparent quickly that you have found his home valley. If you can't figure out that you have a pattern here, maybe you are in the wrong profession.
However, your statement are some what true, but it I have to say that it entirely depends on the species. We have many cattle ranches in the Eastern Cape, and could not find a Bushbuck ram for 5 years, that we had seen on 7000 acres. We eventually found his skull.
In the same breath, I have been trying to connect on a Steenbuck ram for 3 years, on a 65,000 acre conservancy. He is still out there, if the Jackals have not got him, but I doubt it. Yet, every time I find him, he is in the same area. Why is he in the same area? He has 65,000 acres to roam. It's his home range.
Don't get me wrong, I am in no way comparing a wilderness hunt to a fenced South African hunt. The aura of "wild Africa" I have experienced, and it is truly an amazing feeling. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford it. There is however a market for Zimbabwe/Tanzania/Zambia and there is a market for South Africa.
My opinion however, on the difference between your wild hunt and me hunting in South Africa, is that while you and your PH are covering large distances in search of game, I see specific valleys more often, so it is easier for me to pattern animals.
If you and your PH had 6 months to hunt your million acres, I guarantee you, that you also, will start to pattern specific individual animals in certain areas.

 

[billc]

Never said I knew how everyone ran their outfit Bill. Do you know how everyone runs their outfit? My original statement was based on knowledge and information I gained from YOUR words in this thread (I quoted them if you'd like to go back and check), nothing else. Now if you gave incorrect information, or information that doesn't apply to your outfit and of which you don't really know either, then I'm wrong and I apologize to the forum.


No but I don't try and put all places in SA together either is the point. I was directing my comment based on someone saying you can only take big animals if you pay more. Fact is that is not true but did not hide the fact it can happen to.


I truly believe PP tries to get the best trophies they can for a client in the area you hunt. I also believe that likely 95%+ of outfitters do the same. You're not special or different in that regard. Sorry, but it's table stakes. Same applies to sliding size scale by the way. Especially here on AH a sliding scale is almost non existent. Well, except for elephant, and PP does that too it seems. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think your elephant are take whatever you can find?

Never said we were special or better then any other but facts are facts and we have some of the best prices for trophy quality going based on take the best you can with us. It is called knowing your market and going for people you want to hunt with not just big dollar clients.

Wrong again it is not Pawprint sliding scale it is the size that is issued for that area and for a reason. We will take once again the biggest ele we can up to the limit set by the quota for issued permit. Good try though to muddy the water once again with one of our offers but it never works. Dam thinking about it though I do seem to remember the sliding scale for ele in a lot of other countries but the permits back then all cost the same just all those honest outfitters in other countries making more money by size. I guess some of the same practices are done all over Africa just not SA like a few try to say.



Straw man argument and not relevant to the discussion.

No it is never relevant or silly when some more truth comes out about other parts of Africa. I am very glad some people do it in other parts but lets not kid ourselves and think it is done for any other reason other then to make money at sometime.


Once again thread got off topic. I would tell anyone though to ask question about sizes of animals you may want to hunt. It is another good gauge to use to see if the outfitter is on the up and up. To big of promises should make you think. Not sure why the stuff got split up but some more is in above quoted area to read.

 

[Red Leg]

Sir, I get what you are saying , but can't agree with you entirely. Sure, there are some species where you will always have an idea of what is running around. If you know for sure you have a few big Eland bulls for example, or a big Sable bull on a few thousand acres, it speaks for itself. I think it also depends on the area in South Africa. You can in no ways, compare the Limpopo/NW with either Kwa Zulu Natal or the Eastern Cape. In the Eastern Cape with the continuous hills/mountains and thick vegetation, there are many animals that only appear, once they have lived in a thick valley for most of their lives, only to be pushed into a more accessible and visible area by a stronger, younger animal. This will be the first time that we see him ans possibly get a shot at him.
I spend between 200-250 days of the year hunting the area, so, I see a lot out there, and will often start to pattern animals, if I see the same individual animal, possibly an extraordinary wide Kudu that is easy to identify, in the same valley over a span of two months, it becomes apparent quickly that you have found his home valley. If you can't figure out that you have a pattern here, maybe you are in the wrong profession.
However, your statement are some what true, but it I have to say that it entirely depends on the species. We have many cattle ranches in the Eastern Cape, and could not find a Bushbuck ram for 5 years, that we had seen on 7000 acres. We eventually found his skull.
In the same breath, I have been trying to connect on a Steenbuck ram for 3 years, on a 65,000 acre conservancy. He is still out there, if the Jackals have not got him, but I doubt it. Yet, every time I find him, he is in the same area. Why is he in the same area? He has 65,000 acres to roam. It's his home range.
Don't get me wrong, I am in no way comparing a wilderness hunt to a fenced South African hunt. The aura of "wild Africa" I have experienced, and it is truly an amazing feeling. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford it. There is however a market for Zimbabwe/Tanzania/Zambia and there is a market for South Africa.
My opinion however, on the difference between your wild hunt and me hunting in South Africa, is that while you and your PH are covering large distances in search of game, I see specific valleys more often, so it is easier for me to pattern animals.
If you and your PH had 6 months to hunt your million acres, I guarantee you, that you also, will start to pattern specific individual animals in certain areas.

Marius, I don't think you and I have any disagreement at all. I strongly support the work you and many other ethical ranchers are doing in South Africa. As you say, it provides an opportunity set which would not be available or affordable otherwise. More importantly, it has created a vast reservoir of game which would have otherwise been irrevocably lost. I truly applaud everything that you do and wish you every future success.

I was put off early in my African hunting by a visit to a small game farm in your country. They had stock pond which held a croc and a bull hippo awaiting the arrival of a Russian client. I was along for the ride with a friend who was helping deliver a collection of animals that had been purchased at an auction. At the same time two cape buffalo bulls were being delivered which would be "hunted" sometime that season. To my then uneducated "African" eyes - I was appalled. Subsequently, I hunted Eden in Namibia when still managed by Jamy Traut and gained a better perspective of what a high-fence operation could be.

In my mind at least, self-sustaining populations on large properties behind a high fence are very different than "put and take" shooting preserves which tend to be on much smaller properties. The former represent true fair chase opportunities for visiting sportsmen. But to be frank, for me at least, the difference between those fair chase game ranches and the shooting preserves is just as great between a wilderness hunt and the game ranch. And please understand, that is not meant as a criticism of what you do. It merely acknowledges what is important to me.

But, with the recolonization of Africa by the Chinese, an endemic population explosion, and continuing government corruption, the bits of Africa I truly love are vanishing. You, and other game ranchers, who love both the game and our sport, are our best hope for the future. It is one reason I hope more and more of your colleagues get it right.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

To big of promises should make you think.

Indeed it should.

 

[billc]

Indeed it should.

I should add unless the place can back it up with reference and pictures with there hunters.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I should add unless the place can back it up with reference and pictures with there hunters.

Then the promises aren't too big.

 

[Velo Dog]

Worship not the false Gods of tape measure and record book, for these are heavy stones, that spoil one's swim through the currents of life.
Rather cast your gaze on the African bush itself.
Remember the thrill of far away places, the bark of a bushbuck, and the memory of nitro powder smoke lingering in your nostrils, for these are your greatest trophy.

 

[cls]

Worship not the false Gods of tape measure and record book, for these are heavy stones, that spoil one's swim through the currents of life.
Rather cast your gaze on the African bush itself.
Remember the thrill of far away places, the bark of a bushbuck, and the memory of nitro powder smoke lingering in your nostrils, for these are your greatest trophy.

I like this.
I have been to Africa a mere 3 times which is not many compared to most hunters here and have yet to take out a tape measure. I have been told that many of my animals would be be book but I really don't care as they are all trophies in my eyes. I go for the experience and the memories that the hunting in Africa produces, simple as that.
That being said if you have certain expectations you should let your PH know.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Now you are all hurting my feelings by disliking my tape measure. It will get a complex.

Choosing to be more selective in your hunting based on the size of the trophy is not dishonourable or wrong minded.

I get the hunting for the book thing. I have never entered a trophy, but pretty well every ones sees s steal tape at some point. (It helped sort trophies after one group hunt.)

It becomes wrong minded when the guy runs up to the animal, rips out the tape and then proceeds to have a tantrum because it did not meet the magical number.

I had one PH tell me he truly respected someone who was appreciative of the trophy and knew what they actually had. He was referring to a Rowland Ward trophy. I do know what it takes to grow them and hunt them. Older critters tend to be a tad smarter.

Taking a Rowland Ward record Oribi was an incredible stalk through short grass on my belly that took forever. Imagine a guy my size belly crawling with his nose in the dirt. I could have sniped a representative animal days before. Not for me!

Rowland Ward record Blue Duiker with my Bow took everything I could take to not shake out of the blind with excitement. As a pretty proficient shotgunner I was not into the sporting clays Blue Duiker presentation.
Walk and Stalk with the Bow on Vaalies in the high mountains, looking for a monster, just makes it tougher. Finally took an old broken horned cull after a week of sneaking around. Bloody hell, it was fun. I already have two Rowland Ward Vaalies (lucky SOB) with the rifle and wanted to change it up and make it harder. I walked away without a trophy.

Bow hunting Rowland Ward EC Bushbuck with Marius in that damned Eastern Cape thorn bush was exciting and frustrating and gave me huge respect for how damn cagey those old Rams can be. Holding their ground when I am less than 5 yards from them and throwing rocks at them. I passed up some slam dunk shots at some very nice Bushbuck Rams to chase the big guy.

For all the excitement and frustration in the world for Marius and me, it was worth every minute.

I have been chasing Kudu from day 1. I still don't have that "60 incher". I am not headed to an auction to get one either. Some of the Kudu I have passed up have been absolutely gorgeous specimens. I left my first hunt in Namibia without a Kudu. The PH asked if I was disappointed. Not really, I had seen some great Kudu, just not the one I wanted. I also had other options in my back pocket for later in the trip. I still don't have my Namibian Kudu.
My Kudu trophies that are mounted are incredible specimens and required plenty of work to get them.

Have a look at my smile. This is my largest taped Kudu. It is just a tad under 60 inches. That Bull is incredible and the hunt matched it.
So, how much difference does that 1.25 inches make to me? It's just a bloody goal for me to make me be more selective and yet another reason to go do it all again.

On my first hunt I had not studied Eland, I was focused on Kudu and had no idea what a "good" Eland was (No PH school yet). I had considered Eland, but I wanted a Kudu. I had seen some very nice Eland Bulls in recent trail cam pictures that morning. As we were walking through the bush sneaking along I saw this Eland Bull. He looked huge to me, what did I know. As we snuck in closer I had not decided fully if I was going to take one. Then I looked more closely at how incredible he was and that was it. This hunt was on a low fence property in Namibia where Eland and indigenous and we had been on a great walk and stalk hunt, but I still asked a question of the PH "Is it Gold Medal?". He was shocked I had asked the question, because he did not know I wanted to shoot an Eland. We were stalking him for fun. After the question the PH quickly looked at the Bull through his binoculars and whispered "Yes!" The rest is history. Now I look at my first African animal and my smile does not change one bit. It is not Rowland Ward, others I have are. Nothing compares or will ever eclipse this Bull. He has everything I still like in an Eland Bull.

Measure, don't measure, just make sure that you are enjoying the hunting!

 

[Red Leg]

OK. That is a pretty nice Oribi.

 

[BRICKBURN]

OK. That is a pretty nice Oribi.

It is an incredible Oribi.

I was going to bitch about the right horn not being worn down and not the same length.
Do you think I should have gotten a discount?!

 

[Red Leg]

Only if you were trying to enter him as a Vaal Rhebuck.

 

[Royal27]

It is an incredible Oribi.

I was going to bitch about the right horn not being worn down and not the same length.
Do you think I should have gotten a discount?!

No, definitely the same price. You should always pay the same no matter what and it has to work both ways. When you get better than expected, and when you get worse.

 

[wesheltonj]

Its ok, as long as not every animal unless you are hunting until you get everything you want and not just 5, 7 or 10 days fixed. I told mine I want a book (Rowland Ward) Kudu the rest I did not care about. I ended up with 2 Rowland Ward and 6 of 7 SCI at least bronze. The Kudu we looked and looked. We found about a 53-54 incher and tracked that animal one full day and night, the tracker was out all night following it and he gave up when it met with some other males and could no longer track it. We were out that morning trying to find it again, and never did. The PH want to stay out and keep looking and I kept wanting to drive back for lunch, after about telling the PH three times to head back for lunch he agreed, while driving back the tracker spots a Kudu standing off the road about 50 yards standing in some brush, the PH looks at it and says "it is good" and down it goes. Turned out to be 57.5 inches better then the one we are looking for. The moral is don't kill yourself trying to get the perfect animal, you never know what will present itself when you least expect it.

 

[Velo Dog]

Now you are all hurting my feelings by disliking my tape measure. It will get a complex.

Choosing to be more selective in your hunting based on the size of the trophy is not dishonourable or wrong minded.

I get the hunting for the book thing. I have never entered a trophy, but pretty well every ones sees s steal tape at some point. (It helped sort trophies after one group hunt.)

It becomes wrong minded when the guy runs up to the animal, rips out the tape and then proceeds to have a tantrum because it did not meet the magical number.

I had one PH tell me he truly respected someone who was appreciative of the trophy and knew what they actually had. He was referring to a Rowland Ward trophy. I do know what it takes to grow them and hunt them. Older critters tend to be a tad smarter.

Taking a Rowland Ward record Oribi was an incredible stalk through short grass on my belly that took forever. Imagine a guy my size belly crawling with his nose in the dirt. I could have sniped a representative animal days before. Not for me!
View attachment 217557

Rowland Ward record Blue Duiker with my Bow took everything I could take to not shake out of the blind with excitement. As a pretty proficient shotgunner I was not into the sporting clays Blue Duiker presentation.
Walk and Stalk with the Bow on Vaalies in the high mountains, looking for a monster, just makes it tougher. Finally took an old broken horned cull after a week of sneaking around. Bloody hell, it was fun. I already have two Rowland Ward Vaalies (lucky SOB) with the rifle and wanted to change it up and make it harder. I walked away without a trophy.

Bow hunting Rowland Ward EC Bushbuck with Marius in that damned Eastern Cape thorn bush was exciting and frustrating and gave me huge respect for how damn cagey those old Rams can be. Holding their ground when I am less than 5 yards from them and throwing rocks at them. I passed up some slam dunk shots at some very nice Bushbuck Rams to chase the big guy.
View attachment 217556
For all the excitement and frustration in the world for Marius and me, it was worth every minute.

I have been chasing Kudu from day 1. I still don't have that "60 incher". I am not headed to an auction to get one either. Some of the Kudu I have passed up have been absolutely gorgeous specimens. I left my first hunt in Namibia without a Kudu. The PH asked if I was disappointed. Not really, I had seen some great Kudu, just not the one I wanted. I also had other options in my back pocket for later in the trip. I still don't have my Namibian Kudu.
My Kudu trophies that are mounted are incredible specimens and required plenty of work to get them.

View attachment 217555
Have a look at my smile. This is my largest taped Kudu. It is just a tad under 60 inches. That Bull is incredible and the hunt matched it.
So, how much difference does that 1.25 inches make to me? It's just a bloody goal for me to make me be more selective and yet another reason to go do it all again.

On my first hunt I had not studied Eland, I was focused on Kudu and had no idea what a "good" Eland was (No PH school yet). I had considered Eland, but I wanted a Kudu. I had seen some very nice Eland Bulls in recent trail cam pictures that morning. As we were walking through the bush sneaking along I saw this Eland Bull. He looked huge to me, what did I know. As we snuck in closer I had not decided fully if I was going to take one. Then I looked more closely at how incredible he was and that was it. This hunt was on a low fence property in Namibia where Eland and indigenous and we had been on a great walk and stalk hunt, but I still asked a question of the PH "Is it Gold Medal?". He was shocked I had asked the question, because he did not know I wanted to shoot an Eland. We were stalking him for fun. After the question the PH quickly looked at the Bull through his binoculars and whispered "Yes!" The rest is history. Now I look at my first African animal and my smile does not change one bit. It is not Rowland Ward, others I have are. Nothing compares or will ever eclipse this Bull. He has everything I still like in an Eland Bull.

View attachment 217554

Measure, don't measure, just make sure that you are enjoying the hunting!

In spite of the basic difference in our philosophies, I believe we could share a camp and both be quite content.
If more tape measure guys were as squared-away as you are, I would not have a single thing to poke fun at (on this topic anyway, snicker snicker).
It's the ones who pout if their animal is a fraction smaller than the next guy's or, beat their chest a little too fiercely, if their animal measures a fraction larger than the next guy's that I am unfortunately familiar with.
I know that I am not popular for saying that the whole tape measure thing, sends the wrong message to non-hunters about us and we need all the good PR we can get right now.
In other words, it's those fellows who desperately need to show everyone they can swim with big rocks in their pockets that give me the hiccoughs.