In search of a used double for first hunt in Zimbabwe

[SkullKeeper]

As @rookhawk knows one of my finest DRs came thanks to his spotting an excellent Army Navy 500 DR built by Westley Richards and recommending it to me. It was magnificent but I discovered just as I did with my shot guns, I struggle and do not end up enjoying 28 inch or more anything to shoot barrel length. I just do better with a shorter heavier rifle. Never the guns fault to be clear, always mine.

I called over there to buy that rifle but you had claimed it the day before ! I remember that well ! Ha !

 

[SkullKeeper]

My complaint is probably harsh because I had extensive double trigger + tang safety experience before I owned a double rifle. (I shoot exclusively SxS shotguns) 25 years of disengaging the safety as I draw up and immediately snap-fire instinctively created muscle memory that does not work with a Krieghoff DR or the O/U small bore Heyms that use a similar system.

I wish the modern double rifle manufacturers would use the old English "bolted safety" feature that was an option on vintage Lancaster rifles. I understand not wanting an unplanned discharge, but I do not like the cocking mechanism forces required the K-gun has in lieu of a regular safety.

I second that

 

[SkullKeeper]

I looked at various doubles over a few years time and got close to pulling the pin and buying one but it was in my head that I wanted an old English double and that was all it was to it. I held out and ended up finding a very old Army & Navy in 450#2, made by Westley Richards and sold originally in 1905. It’s very accurate and tight as the day it was made. Point being if you’re patient and diligent the right rifle will find you.
After acquiring said rifle I have yet to leave it behind when I make a trip over the pond. There’s just something nostalgic and quite magical about carrying a double in the bush. Just wait, you’ll see.

 

[PCC600]

My complaint is probably harsh because I had extensive double trigger + tang safety experience before I owned a double rifle. (I shoot exclusively SxS shotguns) 25 years of disengaging the safety as I draw up and immediately snap-fire instinctively created muscle memory that does not work with a Krieghoff DR or the O/U small bore Heyms that use a similar system.

I wish the modern double rifle manufacturers would use the old English "bolted safety" feature that was an option on vintage Lancaster rifles. I understand not wanting an unplanned discharge, but I do not like the cocking mechanism forces required the K-gun has in lieu of a regular safety.

Bolted safety aka stalking safety is a brilliant feature on a double rifle . I have them on my Purdey and WR double rifles . I am surprised they are not more common on DRs . I doubt they really add much additional manufacturing cost to a rifle but they are a great safety feature.

 

[RR 314]

I am a very normal build so anything from 14.5 to 14 5/8 would be perfect

Man, that is a huge swing in LOP range. . I kid. However, I do echo the sentiment that unless you have a good friend well versed in doubles, and willing to assist in the process, I would follow the advice of others and stick with a great bolt rifle for less money than a mediocre double.

 

[rookhawk]

I copied this post from @Franco 's thread of receiving his Heym 89B after a two year wait.

"Most of the inventory Chris had on hand was to fill orders; he did have a couple 416 Rigbys - so I talked myself into one."

I must say that your Martini Express makes me want to rob my retirement account to fulfill my gun lust! Must resist temptation... I handled a Martini Express in .458 Lott at the DSC 2024 Convention. It was perfection. I tried but couldn't bind the bolt while working it hard at nearly a 45-degree angle. The muzzle was pointed upward for safety of course. It was on sale as a show special and tempted me plenty. It if have been chambered in .416 Rigby, a very functional cartridge, I would have or at least should have bought it.

The Martini Express in .416 Rigby is what @rookhawk advises as a much better use of hard earned and for most of us, long saved dollars instead of an entry level double rifle. I think the cost is approximately $15,000 for which one may find a used Heym 88B. If a 88B double isn’t available, buy a Martini Express and those dreams of a double rifle will be satisfied by the universal functionality, dependability, and beauty of a grand magazine rifle!

@Franco new Heym Martini Express in .416 Rigby
View attachment 705472

So many nice bolt guns out there! Personal favorites are Dakotas, Martini Heyms, anything custom on a true magnum Mauser square bridge, the new Rigbys, vintage Griffin & Howes. On the used market, all of the former can be found at $12,500 or less, sometimes a lot less. None would be a scenario where they need many thousands of work to be safari ready.

Someone else commented on Heym double rifle waiting periods and their scarcity on the used market. The best way to find one is look on AH for respectable members that write about their experiences and ask if they want to sell theirs. I bet someone will say yes either because they don’t have a hunt planned or they bought a British gun and don’t use the Heym any longer. They don’t last long when listed, so just go find one that isn’t listed.

The best part about buying on AH is tech support. Countless times I’ve contacted friends after purchases and they’ve given me invaluable assistance optimizing loads, sourcing components, or introducing me to the right gunsmith for a modification. The average reader here is very experienced, in another recent poll half the respondents reported they’d been on 5-20 safaris, they all know a thing or two.

If a neophyte is buying a double rifle, I strongly recommend they understand the market to not get burned. Single triggers, over-unders, and rimless calibers are very detrimental to the price and value of the gun. Newbies often end up with a gun they thought was “a deal” because it had features that made it less desirable. On the other hand, if you’ll tolerate a negative feature, sometimes you get a true bargain. @Mark A Ouellette on this thread bought a Heym that would be worth $20k if not for the fact it was a rimless large bore caliber. In my opinion he got the deal of the century and his discount was far, far greater than the actual detriment of the caliber.

 

[Huntergene]

I am looking for a used double in a caliber suitable for elephant. 450/00 - 470 Nitro express or 500 Nitro. Please PM me if you are interested in selling.
Best
Aaron

I would add you can get a new Chapuis 450-500 that can be cut to your LOP for $13 from Champlain. You have a long LOP. You will struggle finding that unless you buy new like this. The 470 is $15. You get a lifetime guarantee. Best DR for the money. A Heym is awesome but you will pay through the nose if you can even find one and it will not be your LOP which on a big bite DR is a real problem unlike a bolt action

 

[Huntergene]

I have a new unfired Butch Searcy 470 NE that arrived too late for my hunt. Text me at [redacted] or E-mail at [redacted] if interested.

 

[Ray B]

The problem is as noted by Oscar Wilde's Cecil Graham discussion with Lord Darlington as to the definitions of a cynic and a sentimentalist. One shouldn't confuse the market price of something with its value.

 

[Huntergene]

I also have a 458 Lott bolt action that I took my elephant with that also available.

 

[Muskox]

I sold a 500/416 Krieghoff in 2016 for $8500. I don't think I could buy it back for $19,000 today.

You never know though.

 

[bakerb]

I will give you my personal experience, which may be a cautionary tale. . .

I too LONGED for a double rifle. The nostalgia, the history, the coolness, everything. I, however, am not a wealthy man. I also LONGED to hunt an elephant with that double. Again, though, the chances of me elephant hunting were very low.

I then got lucky and won the $100,000 grand prize from the SCI foundation in 2023. Suddenly, elephant hunting was a reality. I booked a Botswana elephant/leopard hunt with Mike Murray of African Field Sports and Clive Eaton of Tholo Safaris. My PH was Riaan. I arranged to rent a double rifle from them for the hunt. Long story short, it was a dream come true. Over 15 days I walked over 115 miles tracking elephants. We were bluff charged by a bull in musth. We ran from cow elephants on a couple occasions. We saw mambas and puff adders and a cobra. I got to experience elephant hunting. The heat. The dust. The highs and the lows. The miles and the thirst. Disappointment when 12 miles found us on bulls with no or little ivory.

And on day 15, I got to take my bull. I was shooting the other PH Werner’s .500 NE double Merkel. A nice rifle. We found the biggest bull we saw in 15 days (ended up being 66x61). The dreamed of close range shot did not happen. The bull spooked as we were setting up for a 15 yard side brain shot. We got back on him but he was on red alert. There was pressure to get this bull.

I ended up taking a 45 yard side brain shot. I won’t blame the rifle. I missed the brain. The bull didn’t even flinch. I got the second barrel into his heart/lung area very quickly. Probably a little too low to be a great shot. Riaan and Werner got lung shots into him, and then one of them (Riaan maybe), hipped him as he turned. I don’t blame them. We had to get this elephant down and it was right for them to shoot. We then ran up and I finished him.

I’m proud of my bull. I hope I get his ivory someday. I’ll almost surely never get to hunt another one. Almost definitely not in a big ivory area where the hunts are so expensive.

I’ve often wondered though, if I’d been shooting a scoped 416 (which they also had available for me). Would I have hit that side brain at 45 yards?

I have a Cape buffalo booked in Matetsi Unit 2 in 2026. I again will rent a rifle. I’ve requested a scoped bolt rifle. Maybe I’ll get to hunt Cape buffalo again, but maybe not.

If I could elephant hunt every year, I’d buy a double. But for me, where any other elephant or Cape buffalo hunts will be rare. . . . I think a scoped rifle is a better choice. For me.

Now, I do want a double square bridge fancy one I’ll probably never do it. I’d rather rent a rifle and hunt, than to own a rifle and not afford to go on the hunt

My .02

 

[Franco]

Don't "what if" your hunt. "What if" you hadn't won the $100,000? Sounds to me like you got a nice elephant, congratulations.