IMPORTANT: Immediate Changes to South African Firearm Registration Guidelines for American Hunters

[DE KLERK SAFARIS]

In September 2015 I was invited by one of my clients who owns a big ranch in Montana to come and hunt an elk (a lifelong dream animal for me). So arriving in Washington DC with my pre-64 Winchester in 300 H&H I thought USA gun laws are much easier than South Africa's gun laws so it should be easy to get the rifle imported. BIG MISTAKE. When I walked up to the customs official and told him I have a firearm to declare his eyes got as big as saucers.
They took me into a room and interrogated me for several hours. They said to be able to bring in any firearms into USA a person has to go in on the ATF website and apply for import permit. That process can take anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks. I had to prove that I legally owned the firearm with a firearm license that I had with me. I had to show them my hunting license as well as the elk tag. They called the South African embassy and did a criminal background check on me. After several hours the customs officials realized I am not a mass murderer or anything like that so one official helped me to fill in the forms. They then sent it away to "headquarter" wherever that is and had to wait for approval from headquarters. It took me 6 hours at USA customs to get my rifle into America. I missed all my connecting flights and had to rebook everything.
So guys do not complain about South Africa's rifle import regulations. It is 10 times easier than USA regulations.
Sincerely
Hans de Klerk

 

[Hogpatrol]

Hans, with all due respect, SA hasn't had the number, if any terrorist attacks from foreigners like we've had. There are people with firearms in this country, foreigners, who want to commit mass murder. Homeland Security, amongst other agencies, is walking on eggshells. You could have had a fake passport and until proven otherwise, been a threat.
As far as the importing of firearms, again with all due respect, a little homework on yours and your host's part would have saved you the hassle.

 

[DE KLERK SAFARIS]

Hans, with all due respect, SA hasn't had the number, if any terrorist attacks from foreigners like we've had. There are people with firearms in this country, foreigners, who want to commit mass murder. Homeland Security, amongst other agencies, is walking on eggshells. You could have had a fake passport and until proven otherwise, been a threat.
As far as the importing of firearms, again with all due respect, a little homework on yours and your host's part would have saved you the hassle.

I agree with you 100 %
I should have done more homework.
I just wanted to show the members that traveling with firearms are getting more and more difficult and that every country have their own set of rules.
Hans

 

[BRICKBURN]

................
So guys do not complain about South Africa's rifle import regulations. It is 10 times easier than USA regulations. ......

Knowing the rules and having my ATF 6NIA I managed to get myself in trouble once. I brought an identical Shotgun along to the border crossing and I managed to have the one that was not included on the permit.
Eyes opened a little wider and then the CBP officer said this firearm is not on your permit. Then the, "I could charge you with...." line and then I replied I would remove it immediately. I walked back across the border left it on our side and then proceeded on my way.
I paid the penalty of time over the next five years: Every crossing I made, I got to wait and then the firearms were all inspected. When I had no firearms, I was asked repeatedly, if I had firearms with me.
My "penalty period" is now over and I just produce my permit, which has every firearm I own on it, and I waltz through, many times without inspection.
Once you know the rules and processes it is all straight forward, no matter where you go.

 

[sestoppelman]

Hans, with all due respect, SA hasn't had the number, if any terrorist attacks from foreigners like we've had. There are people with firearms in this country, foreigners, who want to commit mass murder. Homeland Security, amongst other agencies, is walking on eggshells. You could have had a fake passport and until proven otherwise, been a threat.
As far as the importing of firearms, again with all due respect, a little homework on yours and your host's part would have saved you the hassle.

I agree with this, the idea that one could just show up with a rifle anywhere and just waltz thru without issues is pretty silly. He really should have known better. I do agree that RSA is easy but most of us plan ahead and do paperwork and hire folks in RSA to smooth it along for us, it cost money to do all this. I know that some guys just show up and do the SAPS stuff on the ground but for me, no thanks.

 

[BRICKBURN]

To be fair he did not just show up with a rifle.
He did have a hunting license from a local authority, a firearms license, an invitation and he did declare the weapon in arrival. Which is all that was required at HOME (as we all know.) Big Oops. Lesson learned.

 

[sestoppelman]

"So arriving in Washington DC with my pre-64 Winchester in 300 H&H".

Kind of sounds that way to me. Not trying to be a jerk, but his own words indicate he did just that. He had no supporting paperwork from the proper authorities, ATF. Apparently didn't declare it on the declaration form which even US citizens now must do as I found out in 2014 upon returning home. And DC or NY would be the last place to arrive and not expect hassles from CBP.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I am sure we have all found out little surprises at border crossings. Honest and naive mistakes.

............ When I walked up to the customs official and told him I have a firearm to declare .

DECLARED

......... I had to prove that I legally owned the firearm with a firearm license that I had with me........

LICENSED FIREARM

.. hunting license as well as the elk tag. ......

HUNTING LICENSE

No ATF permit. OOPS!

 

[sestoppelman]

Of course. But in the eyes of the CBP guys, he made every mistake in the book. Like I said I got chewed out from CBP in 14 for not putting my own rifles on the declaration form that we fill out before landing and I live here! Big surprise to me! Pretty sure CBP doesn't give a hoot about his other stuff.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Back in the late '70s I was working for Uncle Sam in the Canal Zone. While there I bought a semi-auto S&W 9mm and decided I was going to bring it home and give it to my brother. I was arriving in Miami on a U.S. Government chartered aircraft. At customs, I had the original receipt/proof of ownership and declared the pistol. Whoop!!! Whoop!!! Whoop!!! "You can't bring that in and check it for your connecting flight. It must be handled by a bonded agent who will ship it to your final destination where you can retrieve it. That'll be $20.00 and we'll take care of it for you". Fortunately it all worked out and a few days later I had the pistol in hand.
Moral of the story? Don't go ANYWHERE without checking the federal, state, local laws and country specific laws and regulations when moving a firearm from Point A to Point B.

One note to our South African hunting compadres, contrary to what the left wing media loves to tout, Americans can NOT go anywhere we want in this country with firearms in possession, willy nilly. States and local entities have a labyrinth of laws that can make you a criminal with a handgun or other firearm locked in your trunk with no ammo! The northeast U.S. and California are notable for these draconian statutes.

Having said all that, Hans was lucky he wasn't wearing Arabic clothes or that rifle would have probably never left customs.

 

[robertq]

Ok, Update.... I attended the CIC USA delegation in NYC at the Explorers Club.
The president from SCI was there and a rep. for NRA.
I ask about the 4457 and basically said if this is their Regulation so be it......
I tried to make this work for our hunters and help RSA...... but the scenes is ..... they shot themselves in the foot.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Robert, Thanks for the effort. As usual, common sense is in serious decline around the world.

Aside from that, I've not gotten a reply to my email from RSA Minister of Tourism.

 

[tay50]

So I just went to see my local CBP agent to set an appointment for him to inspect and sign my 4457 form, and you would have thought I just slapped his mother at how upset he became with me? I had explained my form from last year was expired by the date posted, he said no it isn't, I said when presented to the SAPS office in SA they will say the form is expired causing me issues, his answer I'm tired of SA telling us what to do and it's not their form anyway. I explained to him I understand that, but I don't want to take a chance with an expired 4457, then have to pay someone a bribe to hopefully get my rifle cleared. I told him it would be much easier if the US didn't have an expiration date on the form, then him and I wouldn't be having this conversation. So he finally calmed down and agreed to let me call him next week to come in to get my new 4457 signed, I'm just glad he is located 20 minutes from my house.

 

[Areaonereal]

He needs a week at "charm school " , just sign and stamp the form....part of the job.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I'm just going to hunt Zim. In all honesty, probably one more trip to RSA for some specific plains game and then seriously I am hunting Zim, Namibia, Zambia or Moz. More adventure less red tape.

 

[Bobpuckett]

He needs a week at "charm school " , just sign and stamp the form....part of the job.

That's it in a nut shell!!!

 

[Bobpuckett]

Folks this is to easy, yes it's going to mean more trouble for us then them But It's simple take your guns in and have a new 4457 done you don't even have to tell them you've done it before. PHASA has already stated that SAP's will not take a 4457 with no expiration date stamped earlier then 2017 and SAP's has stated they will take no 4457 with an expiration date on it, SO that leaves us with two choices either get new 4457's or take the loan of a rifle from the outfitter you will be hunting with. Just Saying

 

[LivingTheDream]

Folks this is to easy, yes it's going to mean more trouble for us then them But It's simple take your guns in and have a new 4457 done you don't even have to tell them you've done it before. PHASA has already stated that SAP's will not take a 4457 with no expiration date stamped earlier then 2017 and SAP's has stated they will take no 4457 with an expiration date on it, SO that leaves us with two choices either get new 4457's or take the loan of a rifle from the outfitter you will be hunting with. Just Saying

After nine pages this pretty much sums it up, lol.

 

[Bobpuckett]

One other thing I've noticed on this thread is about declaring items. I came back from South Africa in July 2016 thru Dulles and the thing that struck me funny was I did not have to fill out a form to declare anything coming back in to the USA as I am American I did have to answer a few question on a screen at customs but that was it, maybe this is just Dulles.

 

[sestoppelman]

One other thing I've noticed on this thread is about declaring items. I came back from South Africa in July 2016 thru Dulles and the thing that struck me funny was I did not have to fill out a form to declare anything coming back in to the USA as I am American I did have to answer a few question on a screen at customs but that was it, maybe this is just Dulles.

One is supposed to declare items bought overseas on the form on the plane and that now includes whatever rifles that you already own and have along, at least if you land in NY City! And the CBP site says this also. I got chewed for it in 2014!