If this is lion hunting…. You can have it

[Tundra Tiger]

"Stunts like the one shown in this video still strike me as foolish."

I completely agree. That video, and others like it, strike me as foolish too.

Hunting dangerous game with a bow does not strike me as foolish, done with proper preparation and with the right motives, both of which appear to be completely nonexistent in that video.

Perhaps you've shot a lot more deer than me, but my experience is an arrow through both lungs, or the heart, and they are down in very short order.

I do agree that the degree of risk is much greater with dangerous game, though hunting anything that qualifies as dangerous comes with risk. As hunters, we need to decide the acceptability of that risk, as do those that hunt with us or operate in a support role.

Just my two cents.

 

[375Fox]

I suspect that it’s the lowest common denominator posting these crap videos. Let’s not tar all operators with that brush.

The amount of videos on YouTube would say otherwise. There are a large number of crossbow/bow CBL shoots posted on there. In nearly all videos the lion is shot laying down through some brush that’s not an ideal archery shot. I can’t see the difference between those videos and this that’s being so heavily criticized. It seems it’s too routine to the PHs to harvest these lions. It might me the 20th or the 50th repetition of the same hunt on same property that year. Maybe there are a few exceptions but it seems very standardized.

 

[archer36]

Well the PH killed the Lion, not the hunter. Would not be happy with that result even though it was necessary.

 

[WAB]

I am looking forward to @Rare Breeds’s CBL hunt report. It sounds like a very different type of hunt with 25,000 acres and an earlier release. We should try to keep an open mind and accept the possibility that not all CBL hunts are the farce depicted in this video.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Well the PH killed the Lion, not the hunter. Would not be happy with that result even though it was necessary.

It can happen, no matter the weapon. The part I didn't like was that there was pretty much no other possible outcome given the circumstances. He poked a lion with a stick then the PH had to clean it up while he stood there unarmed.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

"Stunts like the one shown in this video still strike me as foolish."

I completely agree. That video, and others like it, strike me as foolish too.

Hunting dangerous game with a bow does not strike me as foolish, done with proper preparation and with the right motives, both of which appear to be completely nonexistent in that video.

Perhaps you've shot a lot more deer than me, but my experience is an arrow through both lungs, or the heart, and they are down in very short order.

I do agree that the degree of risk is much greater with dangerous game, though hunting anything that qualifies as dangerous comes with risk. As hunters, we need to decide the acceptability of that risk, as do those that hunt with us or operate in a support role.

Just my two cents.

I can't remember any deer shot with an arrow that didn't run 50 or 100 yards after the hit (I never hit one in the spine). The lion was at 42 yards. Badly done.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

The lion was badly done. Far and away most of the deer I shot fell within sight, and most you could have started "One Mississippi..." and not got to ten.

 

[archer36]

The lion was badly done. Far and away most of the deer I shot fell within sight, and most you could have started "One Mississippi..." and not got to ten.

True. A deer shot through the lungs will die in about 20 seconds. A Lion can maul you to death in that time.

 

[Proneshooter]

True wild lion $13500.

Zimbabwe Free Range Lioness Hunt Special 2022

Hi all I have a great deal on a free range lioness to be hunted in November of this year 2022. The area has loads of lion so I predict this to be a successful hunt. We would be hunting the save valley conservancy. Area- Save valley conservancy Outfitter-Mbalabala Safaris Ph- Lin stanton...

www.africahunting.com

You won't find a wild male Lion hunt anywhere near that price.

 

[BSO Dave]

Actually, you really didn't explain it. I used to bow hunt a lot, but not for anything that is likely to kill you or someone else in the time it takes for an arrow to take effect.

No disrespect you your opinon, but I have bow hunted quite extensively for DG with mountain lion, brown bear, black bear, wild Russian boar, Asian water buffalo and Cape buffalo among them. I am well aware of the capabilities and limitations of archery tackle especilly in regard to it's effectiveness in taking DG.. Having bowhunted for 40+ years I have taken many DG game aniamls with a vertical compound bow, and I have never experienced any type of close call remotely resembling the one depicted in the video preciscesly because those of us involved took great pains to avoid them..

In regard to this discsuuion, I never made the argument that a well-placed arrow is more rapidly lethal than a well-placed rifle shot... On that point alone, there is no argument. But, that's not the basis of the controversy I was addressing in this discussion which is the belief by some here that archery gear is somehow inappropriate or unethical for DG based on the content of this video alone..

There is a presumption by some that the charge occured because of the weapon used which I reject completely.. The charge occured because of the situation and the multitude of bad choices leading up to the shot that were completely avoidable.. With minimal research you can easily find scores of videos whereby DG was ethically and safely hunted with archery gear without incident, not becasue of luck, but becasue the hunter was skilled, confident, and proficient with his/her equipment and sound decsions were made throughout the hunt by everyone involved..

Now had he been a lion, buffalo, leopard, grizzly or any other dangerous animal the situation could have been fatal

I'm not really sure how your jackrabbit story is relevant to this particular incident.? I would hope that if you were indeed hunting dangerous game, you would be doing so with the expectaions of the worst case scenarios being the basis for the plan to begin with? That's where expereince and sound judgement on these types of hunts comes into play.. I have personally aborted more stalks and passed on more shots than I can remember specifically becasue the worst case sceanario was considered and the odds were not favorable for an ethical shot or an out if things went bad.. With all that being said, it's still DG hunting which means that there must be an acceptable assumption of risk which, in my opinon, is a personal decsion to be made by each individul involved regardless of the weapon to be utilized..

Stunts like the one shown in this video still strike me as foolish

With this above we agree, but not because a crossbow was involved.. I watched the video closely several times and I honestly don't beleive that it started out as a planned stunt, but turned into one when the hunting party collectively decided to take an archery shot at an agitated lion that was well aware of their presence. At that point, a charge was going to be highly likely regardless of the weapon used.. It seems quite apparent that the PH(s) knew that likelyhood and decided to let the hunter take the shot anyway. Then the "hunter" culminated the shit-show by making a terrible shot from a badly positioned animal... Plenty of "foolish" there to go around, but none of it because of the fact that the weapon was a crossbow.. The exact same sceanario was just as likely to happen with a poorly placed rifle shot in this particualr situation...

 

[Canada]

I also watched this last night. It appears to be the usual type Kalahari CBL hunt where the lion was tracked on foot until it stood it's ground, then shot with a crossbow at close range. The result was the lion charging and the PH making a great stop at less then 5 yds.

What specifically did you disagree with?

If one wants the thrill of bow hunting, well, it's up to him. But then, don't expect a PH-back up. You might have gotten your thrill - but then face the consequences, if something goes awry ! If you're a bow hunter, you know 2 things for sure:


1st you have to go close to your target

2nd even a perfect hit arrow will leave a large predator, or buffalo, for that matter, enough energy to charge and kill you.


That's, what you have to accept, but now cowardly wait for the rescue by the PH ..... Of course, everything can also happen with rifle hunting, but the situation then is completely different. In the video shown, the "hunter" enjoys all the fun he expects - but leaves his own safety completely to the PH, as he knows what I have already stated before.

 

[Inline6]

If one wants the thrill of bow hunting, well, it's up to him. But then, don't expect a PH-back up. You might have gotten your thrill - but then face the consequences, if something goes awry ! If you're a bow hunter, you know 2 things for sure:


1st you have to go close to your target

2nd even a perfect hit arrow will leave a large predator, or buffalo, for that matter, enough energy to charge and kill you.


That's, what you have to accept, but now cowardly wait for the rescue by the PH ..... Of course, everything can also happen with rifle hunting, but the situation then is completely different. In the video shown, the "hunter" enjoys all the fun he expects - but leaves his own safety completely to the PH, as he knows what I have already stated before.

1st The whole point to DG hunting is to get close, most rifle hunters want to be less than 50. Most probably want to be in that 35 yard range.

2nd The same can be said for rifle hunters too. The PHs are there to sort out the shit show when things go bad. Again even with a rifle it is hunting not killing. People make bad shots with rifles more than they do with bow (statically more rifle hunters).

Your cowardly comment is painting a whole hunting community with a brush that is hits on all hunters and is in poor taste. You don't have to hunt with a bow, you do have to like, post like your just shows how easy it is to divide us as hunters.

To be a PH is not an easy task, they spend a lot of time away from their family to make out adventures a reality. Have to put up with some people they would otherwise not give the time of day to. I'm sure some take on work they don't feel 100% confident in the client to make the right decision. That said most I have met won't allow a situation to start if they know it is FUBAR before it starts. They do all this as a professional.

 

[rjacobherman]

Everyone's ethics are different. I feel bad if an animal doesn't drop like a rock from a single shot. I would never bow hunt as a clean quick ethical kill isn't possible. This man made a bad shot and someone else killed his canned lion because he failed to do his job as a hunter. That job is to hunt the prey and dispatch is quickly. I hear bowhunters all the time talk about getting close. Then use a handgun or iron sights. This video is embarrassing for hunters and the guy that posted it

 

[K E Johnson]

Everyone's ethics are different. I feel bad if an animal doesn't drop like a rock from a single shot. I would never bow hunt as a clean quick ethical kill isn't possible. This man made a bad shot and someone else killed his canned lion because he failed to do his job as a hunter. That job is to hunt the prey and dispatch is quickly. I hear bowhunters all the time talk about getting close. Then use a handgun or iron sights. This video is embarrassing for hunters and the guy that posted it

Agree it’s an embarrassment. I disagree with pretty much everything else.

I try to stay out of conversations like this but I have ask, do you only take spine or brain shots to anchor the animal in its tracks? I have seen those go wrong too.

I don’t understand someone who hunts saying bow hunting is not ethical as a clean kill is not possible. Really? I have a completely opposite experience.

I have seen some fantastic hand gunners in action. I don’t feel disadvantaged to use archery equipment in any way at suitable ranges.

Would I have taken the shot in the video? No.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

No disrespect you your opinon, but I have bow hunted quite extensively for DG with mountain lion, brown bear, black bear, wild Russian boar, Asian water buffalo and Cape buffalo among them. I am well aware of the capabilities and limitations of archery tackle especilly in regard to it's effectiveness in taking DG.. Having bowhunted for 40+ years I have taken many DG game aniamls with a vertical compound bow, and I have never experienced any type of close call remotely resembling the one depicted in the video preciscesly because those of us involved took great pains to avoid them..

In regard to this discsuuion, I never made the argument that a well-placed arrow is more rapidly lethal than a well-placed rifle shot... On that point alone, there is no argument. But, that's not the basis of the controversy I was addressing in this discussion which is the belief by some here that archery gear is somehow inappropriate or unethical for DG based on the content of this video alone..

There is a presumption by some that the charge occured because of the weapon used which I reject completely.. The charge occured because of the situation and the multitude of bad choices leading up to the shot that were completely avoidable.. With minimal research you can easily find scores of videos whereby DG was ethically and safely hunted with archery gear without incident, not becasue of luck, but becasue the hunter was skilled, confident, and proficient with his/her equipment and sound decsions were made throughout the hunt by everyone involved..



I'm not really sure how your jackrabbit story is relevant to this particular incident.? I would hope that if you were indeed hunting dangerous game, you would be doing so with the expectaions of the worst case scenarios being the basis for the plan to begin with? That's where expereince and sound judgement on these types of hunts comes into play.. I have personally aborted more stalks and passed on more shots than I can remember specifically becasue the worst case sceanario was considered and the odds were not favorable for an ethical shot or an out if things went bad.. With all that being said, it's still DG hunting which means that there must be an acceptable assumption of risk which, in my opinon, is a personal decsion to be made by each individul involved regardless of the weapon to be utilized..




With this above we agree, but not because a crossbow was involved.. I watched the video closely several times and I honestly don't beleive that it started out as a planned stunt, but turned into one when the hunting party collectively decided to take an archery shot at an agitated lion that was well aware of their presence. At that point, a charge was going to be highly likely regardless of the weapon used.. It seems quite apparent that the PH(s) knew that likelyhood and decided to let the hunter take the shot anyway. Then the "hunter" culminated the shit-show by making a terrible shot from a badly positioned animal... Plenty of "foolish" there to go around, but none of it because of the fact that the weapon was a crossbow.. The exact same sceanario was just as likely to happen with a poorly placed rifle shot in this particualr situation...

The only reason the jackrabbit story was relevant is because is because it shows that even a well shot small animal has plenty of time to reach you after being arrowed. A dangerous animal has time to kill you. Can that happen with a heavy.rifle? Sure. I've killed two cape buffalo bulls. One of them decided not to die before he got even. I broke that bulls neck when he was about ten feet from the PH. How would it have ended with a crossbow, loaded or not? As for the many poor decisions that led to this bad video, on that we can completely agree.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

1st The whole point to DG hunting is to get close, most rifle hunters want to be less than 50. Most probably want to be in that 35 yard range.

2nd The same can be said for rifle hunters too. The PHs are there to sort out the shit show when things go bad. Again even with a rifle it is hunting not killing. People make bad shots with rifles more than they do with bow (statically more rifle hunters).

Your cowardly comment is painting a whole hunting community with a brush that is hits on all hunters and is in poor taste. You don't have to hunt with a bow, you do have to like, post like your just shows how easy it is to divide us as hunters.

To be a PH is not an easy task, they spend a lot of time away from their family to make out adventures a reality. Have to put up with some people they would otherwise not give the time of day to. I'm sure some take on work they don't feel 100% confident in the client to make the right decision. That said most I have met won't allow a situation to start if they know it is FUBAR before it starts. They do all this as a professional.

You were much more eloquent than me in responding to this post. I was just going to go with "asinine".

 

[Tanks]

I don’t see a problem, it’s a bow hunt with a backup rifle, unless it’s a canned version of a hunt ? And the PH was saving everyone a$$ , no telling who that lion would have gotten under those circumstances

It is a captive bred lion hunt at one of the South African zoo farms. Notice the lion basically ignores everyone until getting shot with the crossbow.

Yes, even a CBI lion will get mad when shot and will react, so the PH did well by saving his client (and maybe himself).

I would not be proud of this "hunt" though.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

No disrespect you your opinon, but I have bow hunted quite extensively for DG with mountain lion, brown bear, black bear, wild Russian boar, Asian water buffalo and Cape buffalo among them. I am well aware of the capabilities and limitations of archery tackle especilly in regard to it's effectiveness in taking DG.. Having bowhunted for 40+ years I have taken many DG game aniamls with a vertical compound bow, and I have never experienced any type of close call remotely resembling the one depicted in the video preciscesly because those of us involved took great pains to avoid them..

In regard to this discsuuion, I never made the argument that a well-placed arrow is more rapidly lethal than a well-placed rifle shot... On that point alone, there is no argument. But, that's not the basis of the controversy I was addressing in this discussion which is the belief by some here that archery gear is somehow inappropriate or unethical for DG based on the content of this video alone..

There is a presumption by some that the charge occured because of the weapon used which I reject completely.. The charge occured because of the situation and the multitude of bad choices leading up to the shot that were completely avoidable.. With minimal research you can easily find scores of videos whereby DG was ethically and safely hunted with archery gear without incident, not becasue of luck, but becasue the hunter was skilled, confident, and proficient with his/her equipment and sound decsions were made throughout the hunt by everyone involved..



I'm not really sure how your jackrabbit story is relevant to this particular incident.? I would hope that if you were indeed hunting dangerous game, you would be doing so with the expectaions of the worst case scenarios being the basis for the plan to begin with? That's where expereince and sound judgement on these types of hunts comes into play.. I have personally aborted more stalks and passed on more shots than I can remember specifically becasue the worst case sceanario was considered and the odds were not favorable for an ethical shot or an out if things went bad.. With all that being said, it's still DG hunting which means that there must be an acceptable assumption of risk which, in my opinon, is a personal decsion to be made by each individul involved regardless of the weapon to be utilized..




With this above we agree, but not because a crossbow was involved.. I watched the video closely several times and I honestly don't beleive that it started out as a planned stunt, but turned into one when the hunting party collectively decided to take an archery shot at an agitated lion that was well aware of their presence. At that point, a charge was going to be highly likely regardless of the weapon used.. It seems quite apparent that the PH(s) knew that likelyhood and decided to let the hunter take the shot anyway. Then the "hunter" culminated the shit-show by making a terrible shot from a badly positioned animal... Plenty of "foolish" there to go around, but none of it because of the fact that the weapon was a crossbow.. The exact same sceanario was just as likely to happen with a poorly placed rifle shot in this particualr situation...

A bad shot with a rifle is still bad. But, even if the lion had been standing perfectly broadside, and the lungs or heart had been centered, the lion would have ha plenty of time to kill someone before he died. With a rifle the shoulder and lungs/heart could be taken out. Yes, hunting dangerous game has danger in it, but the point is to take the animal without getting yourself or someone else killed.

 

[Tanks]

There must be a ton of people on this site who never hunt whitetails from a stand with the trail camera sending up to date pics, and the bait pile close. No pig hunting with the same, don't hunt grizzly or predators with archery equipment in any place that requires a guide, no Mexico muley hunting from a high rack, have no color phase anything except bears, no night hunting, now no water hole sitting and on and on.
...

"Raises hand". Then again, last time I hunted anything in the States was a bear with dogs at a National Forest in 2014.

I do have nothing against "harvesting" whitetails for meat from a stand though. If it was possible/practical here in CA I would do it.

 

[MarkB]

"Raises hand". Then again, last time I hunted anything in the States was a bear with dogs at a National Forest in 2014.

I do have nothing against "harvesting" whitetails for meat from a stand though. If it was possible/practical here in CA I would do it.

Better be careful Sir, next segment of posts will be "hunters" telling you how they feel, think or say your some one bad for using a legal method they do not agree with, (dogs).

This thread proves we really don't need anti hunters. There are enough "hunters' calling each other out, no wonder our passion, lifestyle and sport is being greatly reduced. Saddens me.

MB