If this is lion hunting…. You can have it

[WAB]

You’re right. It’s not for me but I support it because it’s legal, it supports the hunting industry, and if the hunters are happy that’s what counts. I would only hope that they are honest about it and don’t try to pass it off as a wild lion hunt

I shout pen-raised pheasant all the time, how do I condemn a CBL Hunt?

You may have better luck if you shoot your pheasants rather than shouting at them. Don’t you love spellcheck? . And yes, I proofread this twice before submitting my smart ass reply!

 

[Shakka]

Lol yes you are right about that

Damm iPhone screen! I need a 6” screen to see what I am typing!

 

[CoElkHunter]

Lol yes you are right about that

Damm iPhone screen! I need a 6” screen to see what I am typing!

You need an iPad. LOL My iPhone 7 was dying, so I got a standard iPhone 14. The screen seems much bigger and I'm very happy with it.

 

[Inline6]

Doug, initially, I was totally against the notion of a CBL Lion, but then about a year ago I began to consider doing one because I know that I will never be able to afford a wild lion.
I then began to research it. What finished the idea for me was when I watched a few dozen CBL hunts on YouTube…every single one of them is a joke. The lion is found under a tree, he sees the crew and realizes that they are there. Maybe he will growl. The hunter shoots after some discussion and the lion usually drops biting at himself or runs off. If he does decides to charge, it is a half hearted one, and then 2 PH’s shoots and the lion is dead.
Congratulations all around about how great the hunt was …what a joke.

I won’t do it for free

I'll say it for the sake of getting it off my mind. Obviously it is just my thoughts and everyone has a right to their opinions. Wild lion hunting is so different how? You shoot some plains game, bait them in and when the one you want to take feeds you shot him/her?

I once received a ticket for hunting in a feed area in my youth, I was on a different side of a 100 acre plot of woods. (I walked by an area that the game warden was in, he needed a flash light to see me. I fought it and lost. Long story). My point being is it so much different? Other than Wild Lion 50k - 80k, CBL 5k-10k. (Male, understand female is less money)

I'm not sure what the difference is besides the money. Sure some wild lion will be exportable, not everyone of them. Does CBL take pressure off of wild lion? I would have to think so, if not just for the bone trade itself. Some people have good hunts that are legitimate, they track and stalk. If someone scouts out a pride, shoots (insert plains animal here), puts up a game cam to see what's hitting it. Is it really any different?

I think it is people hung up on the species, if it were most any other animal. Most people would not say a word about it one way or the other. I get it, they are beautiful animal that have a majestic presence about them. Like any animal, they deserve the quick death. Humans are fun creatures, somethings we feel very strongly about the next person may shrug their shoulders and not miss a beat.

 

[Frederik]

I think it is people hung up on the species, if it were most any other animal. Most people would not say a word about it one way or the other. I get it, they are beautiful animal that have a majestic presence about them. Like any animal, they deserve the quick death. Humans are fun creatures, somethings we feel very strongly about the next person may shrug their shoulders and not miss a beat.

Well said, I'm going to add to it by another question? Does an impala living in the Zambezi valley have a higher life status than one that has grown up on a 10 000 acres game farm in South Africa. Is that life worth more than the other?

It all comes down to personal hunting ethics if you don't feel that hunting a lion in an enclosed area on foot and having very good chance to find it is comfortable, so be it.
If you rather want to spend the 14-21 days of day fees driving 100's if not close to 1000's of kilometers checking baits and putting up baits each day so be it its your hunt the end result is still a lion if there is one that if of proper age and category.

What are you comfortable to live with?

In the end it's still just a lion!

Please note this is not a vote for penned drugged lions but a proper tracking hunt with a wide awake cat when it comes to CBL hunts.

 

[375Fox]

I'll say it for the sake of getting it off my mind. Obviously it is just my thoughts and everyone has a right to their opinions. Wild lion hunting is so different how? You shoot some plains game, bait them in and when the one you want to take feeds you shot him/her?

I once received a ticket for hunting in a feed area in my youth, I was on a different side of a 100 acre plot of woods. (I walked by an area that the game warden was in, he needed a flash light to see me. I fought it and lost. Long story). My point being is it so much different? Other than Wild Lion 50k - 80k, CBL 5k-10k. (Male, understand female is less money)

I'm not sure what the difference is besides the money. Sure some wild lion will be exportable, not everyone of them. Does CBL take pressure off of wild lion? I would have to think so, if not just for the bone trade itself. Some people have good hunts that are legitimate, they track and stalk. If someone scouts out a pride, shoots (insert plains animal here), puts up a game cam to see what's hitting it. Is it really any different?

I think it is people hung up on the species, if it were most any other animal. Most people would not say a word about it one way or the other. I get it, they are beautiful animal that have a majestic presence about them. Like any animal, they deserve the quick death. Humans are fun creatures, somethings we feel very strongly about the next person may shrug their shoulders and not miss a beat.

I’ll reply to your post for the same reason. I can’t understand comparing CBL shooting to hunting a wild lion. Most wild lion hunts are 18-21 days and somewhere around 80% success. CBL shoots are 3-5 days at 100% success. More lions get shot off a CBL property in one year than 10 or 20 years from a concession area. The huge expense of a wild lion hunt gives value to area and protects a lot of other species on the 100k+ acre area. The cost of a CBL goes to profit and farm raising more lions, nothing more. The areas they are shot on would be normal fenced game ranches with or without sticking the lions to be shot. I can’t understand when someone says there is no difference. One provides conservation value for wild areas. One is a farming practice defended as hunting for reasons I won’t understand.

 

[375Fox]

Well said, I'm going to add to it by another question? Does an impala living in the Zambezi valley have a higher life status than one that has grown up on a 10 000 acres game farm in South Africa. Is that life worth more than the other?

It all comes down to personal hunting ethics if you don't feel that hunting a lion in an enclosed area on foot and having very good chance to find it is comfortable, so be it.
If you rather want to spend the 14-21 days of day fees driving 100's if not close to 1000's of kilometers checking baits and putting up baits each day so be it its your hunt the end result is still a lion if there is one that if of proper age and category.

What are you comfortable to live with?

In the end it's still just a lion!

Please note this is not a vote for penned drugged lions but a proper tracking hunt with a wide awake cat when it comes to CBL hunts.

The SAPA standard for a lion is 400 m2 so a 20 m by 20 m pen. Would you consider an impala raised in that area wild or a farm animal? Using impala like you did, a 10,000 acre farm or Zambezi valley doesn’t change an impala. A 20 m by 20 m pen falls into a different classification that no one wants to discuss or see.

 

[375Fox]

Here’s how they are raised.

Here’s another CBL video. I cannot understand when someone says no different from hunting a wild lion. This lion has a known breeding bloodline from the farm and looks like it ate very well before getting released.

 

[Inline6]

@375Fox I'm not arguing that they are the same. I'm stating that personally it is hard to see a big difference.

As far as they way they are raised, we see this all the time in other animals too. From dogs to horses, he'll some people do it to their own children. (Malnourished and abused) You can't lump one bad operator with all the goods, just like hunters you will find a bad apple. Other operator again from dogs to cattle track blood lines to produce the best specimen possible. How else do we see 2 year old whitetail that are going 300"?

I'm not trying to change your mind, the biggest thing I see is someone new reading this and shying away due to some of the comments made. Again if we were talking about any other animal would it cause this much of a stir? I think not, most of eat eggs I would think. Have you ever been to an egg farm?

 

[375Fox]

@375Fox I'm not arguing that they are the same. I'm stating that personally it is hard to see a big difference.

As far as they way they are raised, we see this all the time in other animals too. From dogs to horses, he'll some people do it to their own children. (Malnourished and abused) You can't lump one bad operator with all the goods, just like hunters you will find a bad apple. Other operator again from dogs to cattle track blood lines to produce the best specimen possible. How else do we see 2 year old whitetail that are going 300"?

I'm not trying to change your mind, the biggest thing I see is someone new reading this and shying away due to some of the comments made. Again if we were talking about any other animal would it cause this much of a stir? I think not, most of eat eggs I would think. Have you ever been to an egg farm?

Your reply is actually my point. This is more comparable to commercial livestock farming not hunting. If this was called farmed lion harvesting instead of hunting my objection goes away. When it’s called hunting and associated with hunting I take objection to it. As far as bad operators, there seem to be many, especially since it’s essentially unregulated. The YouTube videos are easy to find. The ads for CBL lions are easy to find on this site. I hope these discussions discourage at least several from participating in CBL shooting.

 

[WAB]

I have no problem with anyone raising any species of animal (other than humans of course), and killing said animal for a legitimate purpose. If there is a market for lion bones, what is wrong with raising lion and selling the bones? However, the animal must be treated humanely through the entire process.

I personally don’t want to do a CBL hunt, but I have no problem with someone doing it as long as it is done humanely.

Now tracking wild lion in the Kalahari, that I would sign up for!

 

[Inline6]

Your reply is actually my point. This is more comparable to commercial livestock farming not hunting. If this was called farmed lion harvesting instead of hunting my objection goes away. When it’s called hunting and associated with hunting I take objection to it. As far as bad operators, there seem to be many, especially since it’s essentially unregulated. The YouTube videos are easy to find. The ads for CBL lions are easy to find on this site. I hope these discussions discourage at least several from participating in CBL shooting.

So you feel the same way about deer hunting at ranches? It is honestly no different. Other than one has a much higher likelihood of being kill by one than the other. I have been to the ranches where the deer are named and the client picks the one they want to take. I'm not judging, obviously their is a demand.

Breeding programs have their place, it has kept several species alive that would have otherwise been wiped out. If people want to hunt said animal, chances are it will survive if dollars are attached to it.

Again, not here to change your mind, you are grounded in your beliefs, shows strong character. It is just not black and white from my standpoint. I'm certainly not going to look down on anyone for hunting game legally.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I find it astounding that anyone could fail to see the HUGE differences in a CBL “hunt” and a wild lion hunt.

Also, you are conflating issues. Legal and ethical are two different things..

 

[375Fox]

So you feel the same way about deer hunting at ranches? It is honestly no different. Other than one has a much higher likelihood of being kill by one than the other. I have been to the ranches where the deer are named and the client picks the one they want to take. I'm not judging, obviously their is a demand.

Breeding programs have their place, it has kept several species alive that would have otherwise been wiped out. If people want to hunt said animal, chances are it will survive if dollars are attached to it.

Again, not here to change your mind, you are grounded in your beliefs, shows strong character. It is just not black and white from my standpoint. I'm certainly not going to look down on anyone for hunting game legally.

Yes, I think the hunts for farmed deer are BS but I also don’t think it’s detrimental to hunting like CBL is. The comparison to farmed deer and pheasants has been made a few times in this thread, but I don’t think anyone defends those practices as hunting as strongly as CBL is defended as hunting. Birds are a chance to watch dogs work and socialize. The farmed deer won’t get much credit from anyone seeing it at the taxidermy.

 

[BSO Dave]

I'd submit that the main argument is against CBL hunts period. That being said, they do meet the market demand for an inexpensive lion hunt. No one back home is going to know that the mounted lion was ordered from a catalog and shot after a few days on the property. Win for the farmer and win for the client who can brag about it for the rest of his days.

I'm not sure why you chose to quote me completely out of context..? Once again, you have succeeded in commenting without reading this entire thread or at least the parts where I have commented... If you had, you would have realized that in my first post based on the comments being made, I categorized this debate into two distinct controversies with one being CBL hunts and the other being the use of a crossbow... By these distinctions, I never made any argument one way or the other in regard to CBL hunts, only to point out that the OP's video is a perfect example of WHAT NOT TO DO when pursuing DG with archery equipment, and that the provoked charge had nothing to do with the choice of weapon, and everything to do with the combined poor decisions of the entire hunting party.

Now, if you want to make the argument that by the nature of how they are conducted, CBL hunts may facilitate a higher likelihood of aggressive encounters as compared to baiting wild lions regardless of the weapon used, I would not necessarily disagree..

 

[SFRanger7GP]

No doubt. He should have just shot it with a Red Ryder and let the PH “back him up.”

But then there would be the added risk of shooting an eye out.

Safe hunting

 

[SFRanger7GP]

No doubt. He should have just shot it with a Red Ryder and let the PH “back him up.”

But then there would be the added risk of shooting an eye out.

Safe hunting

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I'll say it for the sake of getting it off my mind. Obviously it is just my thoughts and everyone has a right to their opinions. Wild lion hunting is so different how? You shoot some plains game, bait them in and when the one you want to take feeds you shot him/her?

I once received a ticket for hunting in a feed area in my youth, I was on a different side of a 100 acre plot of woods. (I walked by an area that the game warden was in, he needed a flash light to see me. I fought it and lost. Long story). My point being is it so much different? Other than Wild Lion 50k - 80k, CBL 5k-10k. (Male, understand female is less money)

I'm not sure what the difference is besides the money. Sure some wild lion will be exportable, not everyone of them. Does CBL take pressure off of wild lion? I would have to think so, if not just for the bone trade itself. Some people have good hunts that are legitimate, they track and stalk. If someone scouts out a pride, shoots (insert plains animal here), puts up a game cam to see what's hitting it. Is it really any different?

I think it is people hung up on the species, if it were most any other animal. Most people would not say a word about it one way or the other. I get it, they are beautiful animal that have a majestic presence about them. Like any animal, they deserve the quick death. Humans are fun creatures, somethings we feel very strongly about the next person may shrug their shoulders and not miss a beat.

I don't think that the argument is as much about lions in particular as it is about the risk to the hunter, PH, trackers, and uninvolved local people that comes from shooting a large, dangerous animal with a sharp stick. Just doesn't seem like a good idea. Even if you have the time to nock another arrow, you still cannot stop a big, enraged animal with another shot. I also would not use a single shot rifle in a .30-30 or some other deer cartridge to hunt to hunt a cape buffalo or other member of the big five. Could it be done if you got really lucky with your shot? Sure, but only a fool with a huge ego and no respect for the animal or other humans involved would try it.

 

[spike.t]

Fk me....so yet again I will say I can't believe this is still getting people posting....what a load of shit.....unbelievable its still alive.....