If this is lion hunting…. You can have it

[MarkB]

If we close all hunting that damages us we will soon be golfing. Every flavor of hunting damages us, its currently CBL, its the flavor of the month, week, year. Maybe we should close all wild lion hunting as others stated a wild lion hunt damaged us on lion hunting far more than CBL has. And lets NOT confuse CBL today and canned hunting. They are not interchangeable. As soon as CBL is closed I bet some other form of hunting style or species will be attacked and become "the most damaging to hunters". I understand this, its the anti way. They will never stop, even if all hunting worldwide was stopped. Maybe in a couple years we will have a thread on the new damaging issue and close whatever that may be.

I follow the if its legal I will say its OK, if we allow hunting to be driven by ethics, you can stop all hunting today. Some will argue that hunting x species in x place, using x weapon is unethical. A slippery slope and I can say that with a definitive opinion now that my home Province has started to manage our wildlife by ethics and emotions. Their ethics equal no grizzly hunting, now no moose in vast areas of BC, all based on ethical emotional non users.

MB

 

[375Fox]

If we close all hunting that damages us we will soon be golfing. Every flavor of hunting damages us, its currently CBL, its the flavor of the month, week, year. Maybe we should close all wild lion hunting as others stated a wild lion hunt damaged us on lion hunting far more than CBL has. And lets NOT confuse CBL today and canned hunting. They are not interchangeable. As soon as CBL is closed I bet some other form of hunting style or species will be attacked and become "the most damaging to hunters". I understand this, its the anti way. They will never stop, even if all hunting worldwide was stopped. Maybe in a couple years we will have a thread on the new damaging issue and close whatever that may be.

I follow the if its legal I will say its OK, if we allow hunting to be driven by ethics, you can stop all hunting today. Some will argue that hunting x species in x place, using x weapon is unethical. A slippery slope and I can say that with a definitive opinion now that my home Province has started to manage our wildlife by ethics and emotions. Their ethics equal no grizzly hunting, now no moose in vast areas of BC, all based on ethical emotional non users.

MB

The SAPA standard is 7 days and 1000 acres for hunting and raised on 400 sq meters (0.1 acres) and can be found on their website, maybe some operations are more fair chase than minimum recommend standard, but it’s still a nearly unregulated industry. I see no difference between CBL today and 10 years ago, just a different presentation because the facts of what it is are out there.
The reference to Cecil the lion also forgot to mention the documentary Blood Lions came out in July 2015 as well, the same year and month as Cecil. Documenting the Lion industry in South Africa and pouring fuel on the Cecil fire. The documentary on CBL was equally if not more damaging, it just lacked a lion with a name.

 

[MarkB]

@Rare Breed, that sounds like a much better idea, are you also sure on the 3 Months bud, a big lion will eat a lot of game in that time, couple of Sable or Roan & its off the scale ?

I looked hard at one of these hunts I could live with & managed Lions was the closest but still out of my financial league (yes it is small league) I was told on some off the big places there are lions out there that weren't found which proved too hard or took too much time to hunt, I said cool id hunt one of them, by myself with a tracker !

My buddy says no one will let me & for sure not with out payment up front lol.

Trouble is I don't really trust what I'm told by most of the guys or any one really !

We do see Lion tracks in strange places from time to time, once on our place & once in the MTs when hunting Klipspringer, not sure where from, wither escaped or wondering Wild Lions.

Last year one was seen on the side of the Highway & made the papers.

I know for a fact that "my" lion of 2021 was released earlier than the 7 days stated min timeline. It was seen by previous group of hunters at least 2 weeks before we arrived. As was the US hunters lion behind us, the same earlier hunters saw a few males. We did see lots of tracks some large and some small while sorting out tracks to follow.

But like any thing in 2023, who knows what you can believe. I watch many hunting vids by well known companies and watch as we see the pics of the 6+_yr old male that has been feeding for days before hunter arrives, that ultimately ends up being the specific lion that is harvested. Yes a wild lion and 10X the cost of a CBL, how much different? I cannot say.

I do know that both my leopards were not on camera before I arrived, and both were wild in huge unfenced areas. I do not have the funds to hunt lion the same way, even if I did would I??

MB

 

[MarkB]

The SAPA standard is 7 days and 1000 acres for hunting and raised on 400 sq meters (0.1 acres) and can be found on their website, maybe some operations are more fair chase than minimum recommend standard, but it’s still a nearly unregulated industry. I see no difference between CBL today and 10 years ago, just a different presentation because the facts of what it is are out there.
The reference to Cecil the lion also forgot to mention the documentary Blood Lions came out in July 2015 as well, the same year and month as Cecil. Documenting the Lion industry in South Africa and pouring fuel on the Cecil fire. The documentary on CBL was equally if not more damaging, it just lacked a lion with a name.

I am unsure of the year SAPA came out with the CBL "rules to follow". I cannot say all certified farms follow all the rules completely. I can say where I hunted it was much larger than the mins, as was the release timelines. From what I saw on the specific place we hunted it was regulated, CITES permits are issued for export and import, at least for Canada at this time. Also after we had lion all parts were not placed in the same salt room as other species. Lion salt room was locked for good reason.

Lastly if we continue to close parts of hunting that is damaging to hunters we are doomed to golfing very soon.

MB

 

[375Fox]

I am unsure of the year SAPA came out with the CBL "rules to follow". I cannot say all certified farms follow all the rules completely. I can say where I hunted it was much larger than the mins, as was the release timelines. From what I saw on the specific place we hunted it was regulated, CITES permits are issued for export and import, at least for Canada at this time. Also after we had lion all parts were not placed in the same salt room as other species. Lion salt room was locked for good reason.

Lastly if we continue to close parts of hunting that is damaging to hunters we are doomed to golfing very soon.

MB

Document is dated October 2017

 

[MarkB]

Sounds about right, I agree before that doc was produced and published CBL and canned were possibly closer. For sure less regulated.

MB

 

[Docpk]

The video is embarrassing

 

[Rare Breed]

Completely understand. This is my interpretation for what I was told by African Sun. If I am wrong they can correct me. For all that know me I always want to be completely transparent so others can learn as I do on our great forum.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I mean the first minute or so didn't seem too bad...

Does the "camp staff" in bun-floss bikinis usually come with this type of hunt?

 

[Excessexpress]

I found this video informative, it helped me decide on a few things;

1) I am not able to own a crossbow - they are illegal where I live. I have never had any interest in changing this and this video has solidified this view.

2) I have no idea what those girls were doing in the video, it gave it an extremely tacky and tasteless tone. This video has helped me avoid others with this feature in the opening scenes.

3) I am aware that enclosures vary in size, this was larger than some I have seen. Perhaps it was the way the production made it seem, but the outcome appeared to be in no doubt from the start.

4) The “talent” appears to be interested only in his own outcomes, rather than presenting a view of hunting that the industry can point to as an example of good practice. This video has helped me be alert to certain presentation styles that will save me the trouble of viewing the remainder of other videos.

5) I strongly suspect that the PH instigated the “double backup” scenario, based on the body language involved. The video leads me to suspect that the second PH was underwhelmed at the events unfolding.

6) The handling of the crossbow in particular prior to being placed on the sticks was concerning. There were other concerns, but not as significant. The video leads me to be wary of others and their behaviour in the field.

7) The PH seemed to surrender himself to the inevitable and just let the client initiate the charge. I agree with others that it seemed like the lion would charge at anything other than an immediately immobilising shot.

8) It is my understanding that YouTube refuses to monetise hunting videos. At least he shouldn’t receive revenue from it.

9) The apparent release of the lion leads me to reiterate point 3). Inevitability of outcome. This video has helped me decide that this practice is not for me.

10) I realise that this old fossil has the hide of a rhinoceros and an ego able to shade Texas, but he really should be embarrassed by this film. I believe it casts hunting generally in a poor light.

11) if I keep agreeing with IVW like this, I am going to end up hunting with him….

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

What I concluded from this tasteless, tacky, and unprofessional video is that:

1. The old man with the crossbow is a gosh darn jackaxx and fool all in one.
2. Retirement Outdoors is on my permanent Shxtlist!
3. Discount African Hunt is also on my permanent Shxtlist!
4. The old man with the crossbow is a First Class Bozo!!!

 

[VertigoBE]

What I concluded from this tasteless, tacky, and unprofessional video is that:

1. The old man with the crossbow is a gosh darn jackaxx and fool all in one.
2. Retirement Outdoors is on my permanent Shxtlist!
3. Discount African Hunt is also on my permanent Shxtlist!
4. The old man with the crossbow is a First Class Bozo!!!

Not to be specific about this outfitter, although it does apply as well, I do agree with you that outfitters who agree to participate in less then ethical practices, shooting too young of animals etc, immediately get on my ignore list.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

What I concluded from this tasteless, tacky, and unprofessional video is that:

1. The old man with the crossbow is a gosh darn jackaxx and fool all in one.
2. Retirement Outdoors is on my permanent Shxtlist!
3. Discount African Hunt is also on my permanent Shxtlist!
4. The old man with the crossbow is a First Class Bozo!!!

Maybe someone can explain to me why anyone would would attempt to take a dangerous big game animal with any type of archery tackle. Unless they can hit the game in the brain or spine, the animal dies from blood loss, which can take anywhere from a few minutes to several hours depending on the hit. Now combine that with a weapon that simply cannot be reloaded quickly and you know that someone else will have to finish what you started. What could the guy have been thinking? The whole thing seems to be disrespectful of the lion, the staff, and anyone else that might be in the area.
I know that hunting dangerous game can be, well, dangerous, but some things are just foolhardy. Emphasis on the fool.

 

[Shakka]

I was about to book a CBL Lion until I watched a dozen or so of these videos on Youtube.

I can't afford a wild lion so I figured that it was a CBL or nothing.

I just can't do it. Watching a tame Lion sitting there and eating a stick until I shoot it.

I understand that it's legal but not for me

 

[BSO Dave]

Maybe someone can explain to me why anyone would would attempt to take a dangerous big game animal with any type of archery tackle.

I feel that I did explain it quite well in this thread... You should go back to the beginning and read it in its entirety along with my comments. The problem here was not the weapon used, but poor decisions made by the hunter and the PH without due consideration for said weapon...

 

[WAB]

I was about to book a CBL Lion until I watched a dozen or so of these videos on Youtube.

I can't afford a wild lion so I figured that it was a CBL or nothing.

I just can't do it. Watching a tame Lion sitting there and eating a stick until I shoot it.

I understand that it's legal but not for me

I’m not sure that they are all like this. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion of a hunt that sounded much more sporting. You should get in touch with the poster.

 

[Shakka]

I’m not sure that they are all like this. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion of a hunt that sounded much more sporting. You should get in touch with the poster.

I’ll look it up W and thanks for the heads up

I did watch a dozen or so and they all looked about the same

 

[WAB]

I’ll look it up W and thanks for the heads up

I did watch a dozen or so and they all looked about the same

I suspect that it’s the lowest common denominator posting these crap videos. Let’s not tar all operators with that brush.

 

[John Wasmuth]

I’ll look it up W and thanks for the heads up

I did watch a dozen or so and they all looked about the same

Check out the Africa Sportsman show on YouTube.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Deer I feel that I did explain it quite well in this thread... You should go back to the beginning and read it in its entirety along with my comments. The problem here was not the weapon used, but poor decisions made by the hunter and the PH without due consideration for said weapon...

Actually, you really didn't explain it. I used to bow hunt a lot, but not for anything that is likely to kill you or someone else in the time it takes for an arrow to take effect. Deer aren't likely to kill you, but it can take a surprisingly long time to die even with a perfectly placed shot through both lungs. One jack rabbit I shot with a broad head didn't know I was there and took off down the trail straight to me. I stood still and he left a blood trail over the toe of my boot as he went past. He only went about 10 yards past.me before he died. Now had he been a lion, buffalo, leopard, grizzly or any other dangerous animal the situation could have been fatal. I never shot a deer that ran towards me. Stunts like the one shown in this video still strike me as foolish