IBM to help confiscate guns

[sestoppelman]

Senator Joe Manchin - D. WV

maybe.... I dont think he has any strength of his convictions. He works on political expediency.

 

[spike.t]

View attachment 381955View attachment 381956
I have posted these before, however it seems to fit here again.
Justin Trudeau is the most dangerous person in Canada today.
Just remember they don’t have room to jail 2.2 million firearms owners. They only win if you give them up.

Did his mother visit Cuba?....and anyone requested a DNA test yet?......

 

[Red Leg]

Gee. I guess I was wrong then. We should definitely substitute name calling (‘commie’) for reasoned discussion. I will try to do better in the new year.

Keep trying the dialogue. The "playbook" references are always the best ones - intimating the vast international conspiracy to achieve world communism. It is always much easier than actually discussing an issue where facts may be confusing or informed opinion may be intimidating.

 

[sestoppelman]

Did his mother visit Cuba?....and anyone requested a DNA test yet?......

I believe its common knowledge that she allegedly had an affair with ol Fidel.

 

[GuttormG]

I am a bit more optimistic than that LOL, I dont think they will be able to get very much on their wish list done, not without a fight anyway. We wont know until they try though.

They will take what they can and keep working on the rest.
The Norwegian Labour party spent more then 100 year to complete one of their first commitments....

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Welcome to Australia of 1996 when we had some of our firearms stolen thru by back including historical firearms were consigned to the furnaces.
We did have some good out of this knee jerk reaction by our then prime minister Jackboot Boot John Howard.
We now have a strong political party called the shooters and fishers party. This combined with our SSAA keeps the bastard politician's honest and has opened up millions of acres of state forrest for hunters.
Even tho we lost the use of some weapons we now have a bigger and stronger shooting family than ever before and this is continuing to grow.
United we are gaining ground.
Stay strong and united is part of the answer as well as having politicians who are hunters.
Bob

 

[Neil Molendyk]

No Canadian should have to live through two Trudeau regimes in their life. Pierre and Justin, HELL squared.

 

[MarkB]

I agree Trudope and Canada is not communist, yet. But anyone who argues we are NOT in a dictatorship needs to get their head out of the sand. Ashamed of our PM, even more ashamed at his sheeples who believe his crap. I would love to see real DNA results from him and his Fidel father??

He treats criminals better than the background checked legal Canadians. The only way out= Outlaw guns and ONLY outlaws will have guns?

MB

 

[Cam Moon]

@Hank2211 First off, I would like to say that I like that you are a proud Canadian and will stand up when you feel our country is getting put down. I tend to do the same thing. However, I'm not really happy with how things are right now, and tend to agree with @MarkB in his last post. Trudeau has far overstepped the boundaries, and I feel my country that I've always loved is headed down a road I certainly don't want to see it going down. I think that's all that @Thumper Mcgee was getting at, and using "commie" more as a figure of speech than anything, and not meaning it as an insult to the citizens of our country. Commie Canada is a term that many use to build awareness to some of the atrocities that we are facing.

 

[mikecatt13]

They keep trying,,, wont be too long and the same stupid attempts will be made here. It will be harder as we have more roadblocks but they will try some workaround, like "mandatory buybacks"! What an idiotic proposition.

2020 has significantly lessened my faith in the American people especially in regard to standing up for the rights we have here...but all the same...good luck to them

 

[Hank2211]

@Hank2211 First off, I would like to say that I like that you are a proud Canadian and will stand up when you feel our country is getting put down. I tend to do the same thing. However, I'm not really happy with how things are right now, and tend to agree with @MarkB in his last post. Trudeau has far overstepped the boundaries, and I feel my country that I've always loved is headed down a road I certainly don't want to see it going down. I think that's all that @Thumper Mcgee was getting at, and using "commie" more as a figure of speech than anything, and not meaning it as an insult to the citizens of our country. Commie Canada is a term that many use to build awareness to some of the atrocities that we are facing.

@Cam Moon, belive me, I’m not happy with the way things are right now either. I’m from the West, and made my living in the energy business. Trudeau has been a disaster for the West and a vital industry in the short term, and I have no doubt will be for the entire country in the long term.

I also think the gun ban is both unfair and possibly illegal. There are legal proceedings underway to determine the latter. But you can’t argue with its popularity. If a vote were held on that issue tomorrow, the majority of Canadians might well vote to ban “assault-style” firearms (whatever they are) and even more - likely handguns and maybe even all guns. Is it communist if a majority vote in favour of banning something? Would the US be communist if they went through the proper process and repealed the second amendment, and then voted to ban firearms? If the answer to either question is yes, then we need to discuss what communism is - or is just a juvenile schoolyard insult now?

For what it’s worth, I also have some serious issues with our entire form of government - for example, I’m not sure we can claim to be democratic when more than 60% of voters wanted anyone but the person declared the “winner.” But we have the system we have until we can change it (more of an “if” than an “until”).

Our (small c conservative Canadians) biggest problem is that we seem to be utterly unable to find a leader who can rally voters around the centrist let alone the conservative position. That’s our failing, not that of the Liberals who seem to be much better at that than conservatives are. And as much as I dislike Trudeau, I can’t use that to justify throwing around words like “commie” just because he got more votes than my guy. We can’t argue that institutions are illegitimate just because they return results we don’t like.

Having said that, people like to throw epithets around, including “commie” or “communist.” That’s a ridiculous charge, and belittles and diminishes the experience of those who have actually lived under communism. It’s also a puerile form of argument and is the type of thing that those who have nothing of substance to say resort to.

So it’s not just about my country, It’s about being able to carry on a meaningful discussion and respecting the experience of others who do know what a commie looks like.

 

[sestoppelman]

I think I can agree with most of your points Hank. While what happens "up there" may not seem like any of my beeswax, my daughter married one of your lot and she has a child as well, my grand daughter, so I do pay attention to what goes on in Canada.
As far as the name calling, "I plead guilty to that", its counterproductive but I still succumb, its just too easy and often fun!

As far as the gun thing goes, our system being somewhat different from yours, being a Representative Republic and not meant to be a so called democracy, which is basically mob rule, kicking out our Bill of Rights is just not going to happen, certainly not in my lifetime if ever.
A good example is the electoral college system of voting for President. Doesnt matter how many folks vote for a candidate, what matters is the states and how many EC votes they have. The Founders were brilliant in this regard as it gives all states if not equal power, certainly it keeps the two coasts and a few large population areas, like Cal and NY from telling the whole country how its going to be. So called flyover country is well represented as it should be.
Last election for President 2016, before the current debacle still being sorted, looking at a map of the US was almost a sea of red from coast to coast and blue on the coasts and in the big cities of nearly all states. But red prevailed and there wasnt enough idiots in the blue areas to overcome the red. Sadly it appears that may not be the case this time around though personally I am not at all convinced that it was a legit election, but we may never know since no courts were even willing to have a look at it, no balls, and I include SCOTUS in that.

Commies is probably not the right word to use there or here, but certainly socialism is rearing its ugly head in both places. And I forget who said it first but I agree with it,,,,, "socialism is just lubricated communism".

 

[Cam Moon]

@Hank2211 Thank you for your thoughtful and well written reply! You are indeed correct with many of your points. I'm a fellow Alberta resident and I feel we more than likely share many of the same thoughts and ideas. And you know, you've probably hit the nail on the head with commie being a schoolyard insult. What I sense is more of a socialist ideology that is brewing and I'm not a fan of it. But I think it's true that saying commie or communism kind of is a kick in the ____ to those that truly live it.
As for most of Canada voting in favor.....well, yes....they would. But it's because they are uninformed. And not only uninformed, but mislead. Intentionally mislead and deceived by the very person that they may very well have helped to vote in. It discuss me. We have the PM of our country outright misleading the citizens and it's hardly even questioned. Mainstream media is bought our by the government, non mainstream is shrugged off as being nothing but conspiracy theorists, and the truth gets washed aside. It's wrong. Just plain wrong. I believe that part of democracy is having a government that is transparent and accountable for all of their actions. We certainly do not have that. We have someone who lies to us, hides things from us, and in many circumstances appears to be not accountable for his actions in any way.
Not the Canada that I want now, or for our future generations.

 

[Hank2211]

I think I can agree with most of your points Hank. While what happens "up there" may not seem like any of my beeswax, my daughter married one of your lot and she has a child as well, my grand daughter, so I do pay attention to what goes on in Canada.
As far as the name calling, "I plead guilty to that", its counterproductive but I still succumb, its just too easy and often fun!

As far as the gun thing goes, our system being somewhat different from yours, being a Representative Republic and not meant to be a so called democracy, which is basically mob rule, kicking out our Bill of Rights is just not going to happen, certainly not in my lifetime if ever.
A good example is the electoral college system of voting for President. Doesnt matter how many folks vote for a candidate, what matters is the states and how many EC votes they have. The Founders were brilliant in this regard as it gives all states if not equal power, certainly it keeps the two coasts and a few large population areas, like Cal and NY from telling the whole country how its going to be. So called flyover country is well represented as it should be.
Last election for President 2016, before the current debacle still being sorted, looking at a map of the US was almost a sea of red from coast to coast and blue on the coasts and in the big cities of nearly all states. But red prevailed and there wasnt enough idiots in the blue areas to overcome the red. Sadly it appears that may not be the case this time around though personally I am not at all convinced that it was a legit election, but we may never know since no courts were even willing to have a look at it, no balls, and I include SCOTUS in that.

Commies is probably not the right word to use there or here, but certainly socialism is rearing its ugly head in both places. And I forget who said it first but I agree with it,,,,, "socialism is just lubricated communism".

I agree completely with your view of the US. I believe I may have said this elsewhere here, but I think your founding fathers were incredibly astute in creating an institution which manages both representation by population and the protection of regional interests. And that’s only one aspect of your political system I envy!

Our system in Canada is completely different. We were founded on the basis of the union of Upper and Lower Canada, with the Maritime provinces thrown in to stop the Brit’s financial bleeding in supporting them. So Ontario and Quebec were the core, and since then, every other province has “joined” an already existing system which effectively guarantees those provinces control over Canadian elections. Not a position you want to be in if you’re in the West. We can only ever have a say in federal elections if we can split Ontario and Quebec and have one of those provinces support the same party we do. If both of those provinces support the same party, the West is guaranteed to lose.

And for what it’s worth, I married a Yank (from New York of all places) and all of our children are dual citizens. I’m the only pure-blood Canuck in the mix, and am frequently outvoted on almost any matter, no matter how trivial.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

As I said in an earlier post Australia went thru the same thing as you are now facing in 1996.
As far as I know none of my weapons have assaulted anyone unless they did it without my knowledge.
Joe public no matter how misguided will believe bullshit if enough of it is thrown it will stick. To them they see war movies and put one and one together and come up with 3. They equate AR type platforms as a military weapon of war not something that can be used for hunting. All rifles thru time have suffered a similar fate, even the SMLE 303 suffered in Australia at one time.
Yes sporting arms have made great leaps and bounds thru military technology but in reality do we really need a 20 to 30 shot semi-automatic rifle to hunt game.
I can hear the howls of protest and gnashing of teeth and people wanting to tear me limb from limb.
Yes they are fun and I do miss mine a bit but I was never really able to use it to its full potential.
Companies have spent millions of dollars developing these wonderful rifles to the point of they will often out shoot a bolt gun in accuracy and don't want to loose this business. Yes thousands of these rifles are owned by hunters but do they really need them for hunting.

In Australia we have adapted to strict licencing laws and not being able to have semi auto weapons. We now have a larger shooting and hunting fraternity than ever before. We have our own political party called the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party that is a fairly powerful and popular political party to protect and prosper our sport to the dislike of the greenies.
We have opened up millions of acres of Forrest that had previously not been available to hunters, co operate in cull programs and with our SSAA we have a farmer assist program that allows hunters to help farmers with eradication programs of feral animals.
Yes we lost the use of semi-automatic rifles but came back bigger than before with far more opportunities thru a united front. So instead of name calling and bitching about the position you are now in stand up and be counted as a UNITED FRONT. You may have to concede a couple of points but come back better off like we did.
These are just my thoughts and I hope I have given you something to think about.
Yes I do like semi autos but I love my hunting more. So i chose hunting
Bob

 

[Hank2211]

As I said in an earlier post Australia went thru the same thing as you are now facing in 1996.
As far as I know none of my weapons have assaulted anyone unless they did it without my knowledge.
Joe public no matter how misguided will believe bullshit if enough of it is thrown it will stick. To them they see war movies and put one and one together and come up with 3. They equate AR type platforms as a military weapon of war not something that can be used for hunting. All rifles thru time have suffered a similar fate, even the SMLE 303 suffered in Australia at one time.
Yes sporting arms have made great leaps and bounds thru military technology but in reality do we really need a 20 to 30 shot semi-automatic rifle to hunt game.
I can hear the howls of protest and gnashing of teeth and people wanting to tear me limb from limb.
Yes they are fun and I do miss mine a bit but I was never really able to use it to its full potential.
Companies have spent millions of dollars developing these wonderful rifles to the point of they will often out shoot a bolt gun in accuracy and don't want to loose this business. Yes thousands of these rifles are owned by hunters but do they really need them for hunting.

In Australia we have adapted to strict licencing laws and not being able to have semi auto weapons. We now have a larger shooting and hunting fraternity than ever before. We have our own political party called the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party that is a fairly powerful and popular political party to protect and prosper our sport to the dislike of the greenies.
We have opened up millions of acres of Forrest that had previously not been available to hunters, co operate in cull programs and with our SSAA we have a farmer assist program that allows hunters to help farmers with eradication programs of feral animals.
Yes we lost the use of semi-automatic rifles but came back bigger than before with far more opportunities thru a united front. So instead of name calling and bitching about the position you are now in stand up and be counted as a UNITED FRONT. You may have to concede a couple of points but come back better off like we did.
These are just my thoughts and I hope I have given you something to think about.
Yes I do like semi autos but I love my hunting more. So i chose hunting
Bob

Thanks Bob. That is really interesting on a number of fronts. I particularly like the idea of a political party focused on rural and other issues. We still have sufficinet rural population in Canada that such a party could well end up with enough seats to hold a balance of power in a minority situation (like we find ourselves in now - except that it’s the socialists who hold the balance of power and keep the Liberals in office).

 

[Cam Moon]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen Just a bit of information for you regarding gun laws in Canada. Center fire rifles are limited to a five shot capacity. So we don't have AR-15s that can shoot 20 or 30 rounds. But yet that style of rifle are the ones that are being targeted. It's not due to their functionality.... it's due solely to their appearance. Anything that is black, composite, and has a military look to it appears to be what they are targeting to ban. Another note is that in Canada the AR-15 and similar rifles were already classed as prohibited. That means that they cannot be hunted with. They are to be stored at home under lock and key, and can only be used at a government designated firing range. You also need the proper paperwork to transport said firearm to and from the range, and it must be locked during transport as well. There are several safe storage laws that are enforced here. Personally, I don't have an issue with the laws regarding safe storage. On another note, I wouldn't be able to hunt with an AR-15 even if it wasn't restricted because it is too small of a caliber. Granted, this law isn't the same Canada wide, but the provinces that have restrictions don't vary by much. (6mm, .23 ,.24)
But yet we have a prime minister that speaks to the public and says things like "You don't need an AR 15 to take down a deer." Well no shit Sherlock! And we don't. We aren't allowed to. So is he so ignorant that he makes backroom legal legislation/laws without even knowing what the existing laws are? (This was pushed through by order of council, which may not be technically illegal, is certainly very underhanded and unscrupulous. "Dirty" may be the best word for it. Unfortunately , the general public doesn't know any better and go along with it because most tend to agree that you don't need a bloody machine gun to hunt deer!!!! And that is what the uninformed population believes is what is being banned. Many believe that they are full auto that can shoot hundreds of rounds in mere seconds! Others know that such a firearm is prohibited to own in Canada. If it has a wood stalk and a blued barrel it must be safe, but an identical firearm with a synthetic stock and aftermarket rail is an atrocity that is putting our public in immediate danger! Everyone's safety is at risk because Joe Blow target shooter owns an AR-15 that he keeps in his house, locked up in a safe, with a trigger lock on it as well, and keeps his ammunition locked up separately. Wow.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen Just a bit of information for you regarding gun laws in Canada. Center fire rifles are limited to a five shot capacity. So we don't have AR-15s that can shoot 20 or 30 rounds. But yet that style of rifle are the ones that are being targeted. It's not due to their functionality.... it's due solely to their appearance. Anything that is black, composite, and has a military look to it appears to be what they are targeting to ban. Another note is that in Canada the AR-15 and similar rifles were already classed as prohibited. That means that they cannot be hunted with. They are to be stored at home under lock and key, and can only be used at a government designated firing range. You also need the proper paperwork to transport said firearm to and from the range, and it must be locked during transport as well. There are several safe storage laws that are enforced here. Personally, I don't have an issue with the laws regarding safe storage. On another note, I wouldn't be able to hunt with an AR-15 even if it wasn't restricted because it is too small of a caliber. Granted, this law isn't the same Canada wide, but the provinces that have restrictions don't vary by much. (6mm, .23 ,.24)
But yet we have a prime minister that speaks to the public and says things like "You don't need an AR 15 to take down a deer." Well no shit Sherlock! And we don't. We aren't allowed to. So is he so ignorant that he makes backroom legal legislation/laws without even knowing what the existing laws are? (This was pushed through by order of council, which may not be technically illegal, is certainly very underhanded and unscrupulous. "Dirty" may be the best word for it. Unfortunately , the general public doesn't know any better and go along with it because most tend to agree that you don't need a bloody machine gun to hunt deer!!!! And that is what the uninformed population believes is what is being banned. Many believe that they are full auto that can shoot hundreds of rounds in mere seconds! Others know that such a firearm is prohibited to own in Canada. If it has a wood stalk and a blued barrel it must be safe, but an identical firearm with a synthetic stock and aftermarket rail is an atrocity that is putting our public in immediate danger! Everyone's safety is at risk because Joe Blow target shooter owns an AR-15 that he keeps in his house, locked up in a safe, with a trigger lock on it as well, and keeps his ammunition locked up separately. Wow.

@Cam Moon
I'm hearing you loud a n d clear my friend. I was only using the AR platform as that is the one poor Joe public associate's with a semi auto weapons and ifn you can feed Joe public ENOUGH BULLSHIT they will believe it. We faced exactly the same problem with ALL semis , 22 centrefire and shotgun. Holy shit the dumd arses were even brainwashed to believe a 5 shot lever shotgun was as dangerous because it could be cycled quickly. We won that one and they are now legal.
The battle is not w i th the politicians but with uninformed public knowing jack shit about weapons. Believe when I was in the army with some dickheads you almost had to hang a tag on the barrel saying cautionbullet comes out this end.
Politicians are masters of spin and will push policy thru at 4in the morning when people are tired and just want to go home. Happens here and t h e next you know you have a law you knew nothing about..
Canada has a political system similar to our own so get a GOOD AND KNOWLEDGEABLE person to start a political party along the same lines as ours. With all the shooting disciplines over there and hunters you would have a very effective political party to fight on your behalf. Let's say 7 million hunters and shooters on Canada that's one he'll of a political force to be reckoned with.
I'm sure it would get the support it needs and the leader of our HF&F party would be glad to offer advice
Bob

 

[WAB]

Being a citizen of both Canada and the US by birth and having split my adult life between the two, I see advantages and disadvantages of both systems. Both are great countries, but I believe that the checks and balances in the US system are much more effective than what Canada has in its parliamentary system.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thanks Bob. That is really interesting on a number of fronts. I particularly like the idea of a political party focused on rural and other issues. We still have sufficinet rural population in Canada that such a party could well end up with enough seats to hold a balance of power in a minority situation (like we find ourselves in now - except that it’s the socialists who hold the balance of power and keep the Liberals in office).

@Hank2211
As someone said for evil to triumph it just takes a few good men to do nothing.
With the amount of shooters, hunters,Fisher people and Farmers in Canada you would be able to form one BIG kick ass political party that could make a difference. Yes you will have to have some give to get your goals but better to lose a couple of battles to win the war.
Bob