I have a mature bull buffalo question...

There is that classic deep curl, balanced boss to horn ratio, not too wide, a good sweep. I saw this guy in the Greater Kruger, probably a nine year old that could be a poster boy, Big body, Roman nose, dewlap, great curl.
C762222D-E7DC-4406-8987-6A38D73402C8.jpeg
 
I don't believe the OP was referring to xxx shape or zzz width bulls, but hunting a mature bull with both horns, no broken horns, scrum cap, etc. I believe the OP has a valid point, and it should be up to the PH to get him close enough for the OP (shooter) to close the deal. I don't believe this is an out of this world request. :unsure::unsure:
I don't believe the OP was referring to horn specifics either. However 90% of the responses on this thread are about a wishlist of shape and horn characteristics and what people would turn down. All I'm saying is the first time buffalo hunter with specific horn aspirations would be well-served to have made peace with his decision to turn down a mature bull in favour of hopefully finding something 'better'.
A 'trophy' buff hunt will involve an intact-horned buffalo, nowhere has anyone suggested this to be an unrealistic request. The only way a PH would likely consider a scrum cap is if the hunter specifically mentioned this, especially a hunter after his first buff.
 
7 hunters in camp my first safari with this outfit as a freelance ph. Although I was probably the most experienced dg ph, I got given the client that only had a buffalo on his list.
During our chat first night around the fire I enquired about what his expectatiins where etc..
His simple reply was find me the oldest ugliest worn down buff you can...
We did, shot at 10 yards, his shot was perfectly placed exactly where I had told him to in the event of a charge(he charged unwounded). I was also commited at this point and as the bull dropped my bullet was already on its way...the bulls neck was shattered in two places...we had a hell of a time setting him up for pictures.
Most of his tail was missing, scarred backside from more than one scuffle with lions and hyenas....lots of hair loss....boss seperated due to old age....I estimated his age at about 14yrs...heavy worn down smooth horns...not much spread left to boast about around the fire...but it was a dream come true for him...a hunt of a lifetime and the trophy he had always dreamed about....a hunt I will also never forget.
 
On the same hunt I had to share the camp with one of the biggest asshole clients I have ever had the displeasure of meeting.....
Argumentative, know it all....would not shoot if not guaranteed 42 inches spread....asked advice or uour opinion and when you give it starts a argument etc. etc.etc. The same one who while we where watching 4 majestic kudu bulls come down the side of a mountain....start an argument about which one is the biggest....now in that group there where 2 bulls that were great one estimated at 54" and another exceptional one at 56" both old thick horn bulls with deep curls...again would not shoot if not RW 54"...kept saying x bull is the biggest not the two we judged....
Ok fine knock yourself out heres the tracker shoot your own bull....
Off they go....tracker and his reluctant ph after the stalk again sais which bull...nope I will shoot this one....ok sir....boom....drops a 51" soft based bull....needless to say there was not much talking all the way back to camp....
 
So yes each hunter has his own expectations but if the actual hunt is not part of that equision then the throphy means nothing afterwards irrespective of horns size shape or whatever.....
 
I'm on the worn/ polished/ broken and worn side. As stated above there is probably no right or wrong here, although I think there will almost be more opinions raised by those steaks!! Once again, personal preference right?
 
So, it is all in the eye of the beholder. Who doesn't want to kill the record book trophy? The thing is at some point, a switch flips and it is no longer about the biggest but the hardest to hunt.

The Sable I took was not the biggest, could have killed a bigger one much younger. The one I did kill had been giving our PH the slip multiple times with multiple hunters. Much more of a challenge, that's what I will remember when I look at the mount.

The word trophy means different things to different people and it can mean one thing to us today and something different in 10 years from now.

I don't think in terms of record book at all - as a matter of fact, I very much dislike the record book as a means of competition between people. I like the record book for seeing what exceptional animals have existed, but have no use for it otherwise. A hunter's name need not be included in my opinion.

If you read between the lines, I think the whole scrum cap fascination (and it seems to be a relatively recent one) has been furthered as a way to change the concept of a trophy from size to age. I think this was necessary as too damn many hunters were killing too damn many young, breeding-age bulls that should have been left alone. I agree with the age > size shift, however, I think an old bull with very, very worn (but still present) horns, trumps in all cases a scrum cap. It's a strange thing among hunters that even when we agree to shift from one type of measurement (inches) to another (years), we seem to hyper-fetishize the new so that we can still compete.

In elephant terms, again, we know of many 100 lb single-tuskers, but I can't ever recall someone hunting a 55 year old no-tusker. Cows, yes, as cull hunts, but no one is paying 50K for a no-tusker - there's a reason for that.

Understand, I am not reducing an animal to his horns or tusk, but see them as part of his character - as I said above, his essence. Given the way both Buffalo and elephant rely on their horns/tusks, I think they know it too.
 
If no tuskless and scrum caps where hunted they would be a loss of revenue and the only contribution they and the hunters who dont hunt them would make is hyena food....most scrum cap and tuskless are available at much reduced cost to the contributing hunter when compared to a fully horned or tusked throphy...
 
If no tuskless and scrum caps where hunted they would be a loss of revenue and the only contribution they and the hunters who dont hunt them would make is hyena food....most scrum cap and tuskless are available at much reduced cost to the contributing hunter when compared to a fully horned or tusked throphy...
Very true but I think the point was that those tuskless Ele are not the same price as a Tucker.

Fortunately, with buff, there are a variety of characteristics that one could levy to define it as the perfect trophy for them - for which they would pay the same price. Ele . . . Not so much, the measuring stick is either the hunting experience, age, or tusk weight. Not many people hunting for the “most pronounced Z arches”.lol
 
You’re paying for the hunt, shoot what you like and what makes you happy.

I’ve shot 1 buffalo and was extremely happy with him. He wasn’t the target but I wouldn’t trade him since he was old, mature, and presented a close shot on the last evening of the hunt.

Personally I like big bosses and a lot of drop on a buffalo if he’s got both horns or some character (old polished, worn down, broken or broomed off horns). I’d love a wild scrum cap one day, but having been on only 1 buffalo hunt, I’m shooting the old mature bull the PH tells me to shoot until I have several more under my belt.
 
On our last hunt to the Save in June with the new Heym 89b the quest was for buffalo. I had dreamt about it, fantisized about it and you build yourself up to such an extent that you can smell the beasts. When we bumped this group at about 80 metres there was an old mature bull with a cow and a youngster to one side, he was lying down, she was on her feet watching but not overly perturbed. That old boy's white face was too beautiful for words and it is etched in my memory. This was the first day and I didn't have the measure of this PH yet, nor he me, so I was waiting respctfully for his lead, and he mine. Net result is that while this hiatus was going on they got up and went. That bull ticked all the boxes and if he manages to avoid the lions and the hyenas for a few seasons we may meet again.
 
I am posting this because... am I alone in my desire to have one with all of his horns? I feel like I am certainly in the minority.

Just looking to see if there are other misguided, twisted individuals like me. If you're afraid to say so, please raise your coffee cup in the safety of your own home and say "Amen brother!" Please and thank you.
what kind of trophy you want to take is completely up to you. just like women, thats why there are blondes, brunettes and redheads! nobody is wrong in their choices, just different, as it should be.

in fact my wife was/still is wondering why i would want shoot a one horned bull? i just smile and say "that is what makes me happy hon."
 
Sorry about the pics I meant to hit
Thumbnail instead of full
 
I'm pretty much on the same page as you on the first buffalo @Tundra Tiger. If I'm ever able to hunt one, I want the hunt experience AND a bull with a solid boss and both horns. Spread doesn't really matter as long as there is a nice curl to the horns. This trophy would come home with me as a Euro mount. After that due to lack of space, if a miracle happens and I get to go on another buffalo hunt (especially if the trophy fee is discounted) I would be definitely going for a busted up or scrum cap bull. By then it would be purely for the pleasure of the experience and the skull could stay in Africa. But for now I can only dream.
 
What happens to old bulls we don't shoot?

Passed on this buff a few days before we found him...

Old bull in ditch.jpg

There were about a dozen hyenas and several white backed vultures working on him.
 

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Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
(cont'd)
Rockies museum,
CM Russel museum and lewis and Clark interpretative center
Horseback riding in Summer star ranch
Charlo bison range and Garnet ghost town
Flathead lake, road to the sun and hiking in Glacier NP
and back to SLC (via Ogden and Logan)
Grz63 wrote on Werty's profile.
Good Morning,
I plan to visit MT next Sept.
May I ask you to give me your comments; do I forget something ? are my choices worthy ? Thank you in advance
Philippe (France)

Start in Billings, Then visit little big horn battlefield,
MT grizzly encounter,
a hot springs (do you have good spots ?)
Looking to buy a 375 H&H or .416 Rem Mag if anyone has anything they want to let go of
 
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