I got my Model 70 Safari Express to feed (.416 Remington Magnum)

[postoak]

I'm posting this here in case anyone else has a problem with theirs.

First, it has nothing to do with the type of bullets. My old style Barnes flat nose solids feed just fine.

It all comes down to how you load the cartridges. First, you must start with the rifle held in the vertical position. Then, press the first cartridge down (toward the bottom of the magazine) and to the right, then press the second cartridge down and to the left and slightly in front of the first cartridge, then the third cartridge down and to the right like the first one and slightly in front of the second one. It also helps, if after you insert the second and third cartridges, you slide them back until they stop against the previously inserted cartridge. If you do the above but with the rifle in the horizontal position you'll still have problems loading.

I can work the action as fast as I want now with no problems as long as I follow the above procedures.

 

[chashardy]

Hmmm. Interesting. I have Model 70's in 30-06, 300 winmag and 375 H&H Magnum (Safari Express). I have never had a feeding problem with any ammunition I have cycled through them. I will add that with the bigger Mauser 98 Magnum action on my 416 Rigby, you have to be sure you pull the bolt all the way back to make sure it ejects the spent cartridge. The longer bolt on the Rigby takes a little getting used to. I typically load by holding the rifle in my left hand, slightly tilted barrel up and feed ammo, one by one, with my right hand. The magazines seem to place the ammo in the correct position without my having to do anything more than press the cartridge into the magazine.

 

[postoak]

Yes, I had a Model 70 in 6.5 x 55 and never had to load the cartridges in any special way. I wonder if anyone else has this issue with their .416 Model 70.

 

[BnC 04]

Yes, I had a Model 70 in 6.5 x 55 and never had to load the cartridges in any special way. I wonder if anyone else has this issue with their .416 Model 70.

No feeding issues with any of my 375s, 416 or 458s.

 

[fourfive8]

Yes, I had a Model 70 in 6.5 x 55 and never had to load the cartridges in any special way. I wonder if anyone else has this issue with their .416 Model 70.

I have a 416 Rem Win 70, a late New Haven gun. Hard to imagine having to hold the rifle in a certain way to load. I'm trying to visualize some condition that would cause this but without rifle in hand?? Mine... just hold in whatever position and with the thumb, press cartridges straight down into magazine. Don't even have to look to see how to do it. The cartridges sort themselves as they stack. The only thing I can think of is the length limitation of the Mod 70. Anything longer than 3.60" is too long. A 400 gr Swift A Frame loaded with the mouth crimped into the crimp groove on a standard length 416 Rem Mag case will yield a cartridge length of about 3.580. Any longer and it starts getting iffy on loading.
Here's mine

 

[sierraone]

Yes, I had a Model 70 in 6.5 x 55 and never had to load the cartridges in any special way. I wonder if anyone else has this issue with their .416 Model 70.

I think you are mixing up your .416 s. M 70's are .416 Rem, 98 Mauser actions are normally .416 Rigby.

 

[Hammergun]

I think he is stacking the cartridges so that the belts start at the back of the mag and progress forward. I have noticed the belts cause some drag in my gun but no jams. If I work the bolt briskly, like it should be done, I don't even notice the resistance of a belt having to override the belt on the cartridge below.

 

[Ray B]

I had a Win M70 338 rebarrelled to 375 RUM. To feed properly it required a different follower. Prior to the new follower it didn't matter what technique was used, it wouldn't feed. With the correct follower it works first time, every time.

 

[postoak]

Well, I would buy a special follower if they made one for the Model 70, but so far I haven't seen one.

Yeah, the internal length of my magazine is 3.630". The specs for the .416 RM call for max of 3.600". My handloads are about 3.605" or 3.610". Next time I'll make them conform to 3.600" but since this is a loading problem, not a feeding problem, I doubt this will make any difference.

 

[fourfive8]

Well, I would buy a special follower if they made one for the Model 70, but so far I haven't seen one.

Yeah, the internal length of my magazine is 3.630". The specs for the .416 RM call for max of 3.600". My handloads are about 3.605" or 3.610". Next time I'll make them conform to 3.600" but since this is a loading problem, not a feeding problem, I doubt this will make any difference.

Hard to say. Length can make a difference. Watch carefully as you push a round into the magazine. Very possible to start a little too far forward where the nose of the bullet contacts the short ramp leading from the magazine into the chamber. Quite a bit of friction sometimes for the bullet's nose to contact that ramp then for the nose to scoot the whole cartridge to the rear for it to fit correctly within the parallel sides of the magazine box. Or the ramp contact with the nose will cause the cartridge to tip up during loading. If you start thumbing the cartridge downward and farther to the rear then the nose will clear that ramp and possibly fit more smoothly, directly into the magazine box the way it should.

As to the follower ?... that needs to fit correctly into the magazine box- both side to side and lengthwise. Not too tight but not too loose either. Both sides of the follower should make even contact the undersides of the rails. Also, sometimes the follower spring tension will be uneven and will tilt the follower- either front or rear. The spring needs to put even tension on both ends of follower.
The only issue I ever had with a Win 70 follower was converting a standard long to a slightly longer long or mag length. If the follower is too short for the mag box length of 3.6"- it won't work well at all no matter the length of the cartridge. You can easily check that fit.

After studying two similar M 70 rifles I have here, a 375 HH and a 416 Rem, there is one other possibility. If you watch carefully as you load, the first cartridge will fit to the right side of the magazine and away from the ejector that is slightly protruding from a slot in the bolt face. The second round is slightly staggered to the left side and the head of the second round will fit over the top of the ejector. Then the third round will again be to the right side and clear of the ejector. There could be some interference with the ejector while loading. Just some odd possibilities that I can think of.

 

[TOBY458]

The reason it works better when holding the rifle with the barrel up is, the cartridges are going all the way back against the rear of the magazine and the belts are stacking on top of each other. If you let the belt of the bottom cartridge get in front of the belt from the cartridge above it, it can cause the cartridges to drag on each other. The 416 Rem mag is a tight fit in those magazines anyway. I have the same rifle and I basically follow the same protocol to ensure smooth feeding. But mine will still work either way.

 

[CoElkHunter]

CZ 550! Loads everything at every possible angle all the time! Ha! Ha!

 

[postoak]

I took a good look at the spring and follower and it appears the first owner may have bent the spring for some reason. I've ordered a new spring and when it is installed I'll report back.

 

[TOBY458]

I took a good look at the spring and follower and it appears the first owner may have bent the spring for some reason. I've ordered a new spring and when it is installed I'll report back.

That spring should be fine. They sometimes need a little tweaking to get things right. Guess it won't hurt to have a spare though.

 

[fourfive8]

Yes, those springs aren't expensive and won't hurt to have an extra. Doubt it's the spring and they can be re-bent a little to correct but never know. It may be a very subtle issue with loading so that makes it difficult to diagnose. I have been around and shot Win 70s for over 50 years so have developed a habit in loading them and may not even be able to properly explain what I'm doing during the process. I know that I wrap my fingers, kind of curled, to the side and under the rifle and only use the thumb to load down and into the magazine. Describing the subtleties of that simple action may be lost because of the ingrained habit of doing it. I think I slightly push to the rear while pushing down- it's all a deeply ingrained habit. For all I know I may subconsciously feel what needs to be done, as it's being done, to smoothly load the cartridge... just dunno. Toby's explanation may be right... tilting the rifle up having the same effect as pushing slightly to the rear when loading.

 

[Ray B]

Magazine springs can be touchy even while looking the same. I had a Springfield '03 that would not hold the first round in the magazine. I could load one, hold it down while I loaded the other 3. Then firing and ejecting things went well until I fired the second to last cartridge and pulled the bolt back to eject it. As the case ejected about half the time the last round in the magazine would pop up out of the magazine, sometimes falling out of the rifle, in any event it wouldn't be in position to get pushed into the chamber. I ordered a new spring and when received, I compared both. They looked virtually the same. With much doubt I installed the new spring and to my surprise, the magazine worked flawlessly. What the differences with the spring were I have no idea except that the old spring didn't have the push left to hold that last cartridge where as the new spring did.

Good luck with the new spring- it may be the answer.

 

[postoak]

While waiting for the new spring, I took a flashlight and looked at what was going on as I loaded. There's a heavy chunk of metal at the top of the magazine box, in line with it. I think this piece serves as the lower bolt guide. Anyway, when I load the first cartridge it easily goes back to sit against that metal piece. On the second round I must move it somewhat forward to go in, but once in I can push it back to seat against that metal piece. There's an audible click when that happens. Then, the third round is like the first, I can push it down with it pushed back against the metal piece -- I don't have to hold it forward and then push it back after it is in.

I've also had some success loading while horizontal, but to do that I need to use pressure near the front of the cartridge and near the rear, to hold it level. If I don't then the rear breaks downward and jams the follower down.

I also got some Hornady DGX ammunition and measured its OAL. It's only 3.510", so I went back and seated the the rounds I had loaded to 3.585". Any shorter and the cannelures weren't visible. The DGX bullets I bought have the cannelure in a different spot than the bullets in the DGX ammunition. But shortening my handloads from 3.610" didn't really make any difference. It's all in getting the rounds properly seated. Once properly seated all three bullet types load smoothly as quickly as I can work the action even when 3.610" long.

 

[sestoppelman]

I have found the follower to be the biggest potential culprit with feed problems. I had a post 64 .30-06 that would not feed. Replaced the follower with an aftermarket rig from Midway (Strobel) and run perfect ever since. Also had a Rem 673 in .350 Rem that was glitchy. Replaced its follower with one from an M700, fixed.

I would not consider using a DG rifle that was so dependent on gravity or position to feed its rounds properly. I would get it fixed or dump it.

 

[fourfive8]

Ok, that is starting to make sense. Let me get one of mine out of the safe and try to get a picture. Not easy as it takes three hands and extra fingers to do it. I think that piece you are referring to is the (standing) ejector that protrudes maybe 1/4" out of a slot in the lower left quadrant of the bolt face when the bolt is fully to the rear and in contact with the bolt stop. That ejector configuration is pretty standard on Mauser and Win 70 CRFs. It pivots and kind of rides under the base of the 2nd round as the round is loaded.

Here's a pretty normal (standing) ejector with the bolt fully to rear and in contact with bolt stop in a standard M70 or Mauser type CRF action. The rifle is lying on it's left side in the pic. Is the the piece of metal you were referring to?

 

[postoak]

No, I don't think that is the part I am talking about. It's fixed in place and rather a large chunk of metal. The ejector is just to the left of it.