Hypothetically Speaking... Which 9.3 in a custom ZG47?

[Just a dude in BC]

I lucked into a great deal on a ZG47, beautiful wood, action in good shape, BUT some guy had counter bored the first 1.5" of the barrel. Probably to make an integrated muzzle break. I was actually glad for this modification, since it meant I picked up the action for 800 CAD. Then in a stoke of luck I picked up a Ferlach 9.3 blank, which is threaded for a large ring mouser and tapered, but has yet to be chambered.
My initial inclination was to have it reamed to 9.3x62.... But now I am considering 9.3x64...

Notes:
1. I am an experienced reloaded, and am able to buy RWS brass for it.
2. I already have a 9.3x74r

Which would you choose and why? I would love to hear your opinions on the pros and cons of these two.

 

[Longwalker]

I'd choose 9.3x62, simply because it does everything I wish from the caliber, and "more is not necessarily better" But if you wish for the ultimate 9.3, the x64 does have a bit more power, and is legal in Zimbabwe for dangerous game when loaded with factory loads. That might be a consideration if you could legally transport your rifle there. As a Canadian you're out of luck on that choice since you can't legally transport your own rifles to Zimbabwe anyway. Last month in Mozambique I shot a big old eland bull through the chest at just over 100 M with my 9.3x62. The Swift Aframe 285gr. fully penetrated and exited. Killed quickly. Can't ask for more than that.

 

[Don458]

Definitely 9.3x64. Really look at ballistics

 

[One Day...]

It depends on what rifle you are building. Moose? Or Buffalo? Short range work in jesse or alder thickets (150 yards/meters ideal)? Or more open range (up to 250 yards/meters)?

While both 9.3x62 and 9.3x64 can be and have been used for African DG, ballistically the 9.3x64 is head and shoulder above the 9.3x62, and develops 23% more energy. I know that energy does not kill, but for this discussion it is a pretty good indicator to compare quickly on paper the power of two cartridges, especially when the two cartridges shoot the exact same bullet.

The 9.3x64 is actually considered by many folks in the know to be the only medium bore actually "better" (as in: more efficient) than the .375 H&H, based on the fact that with virtually equal ballistics it fits in a standard length action. Mauser Magnum actions were not needed for it, and, more commonly, Mauser K98 military actions did not need to be "opened up" to accept it, conversely to the .375 H&H which required half of the front ramp to be machined out.

On the downside however, to the best of my knowledge, RWS is the only company that still produces ammo for it. FYI, the Barnaul Machine-Tool Plant in Russia also produces 9.3x64 for a variant of the Russian Army Dragunov sniper rifle, and these have been occasionally imported in the U.S. under the Brown Bear brand, but they are steel cased and Berdan primed. A-Square used to load 9.3x64 in the U.S. but I do not know their current status.

So, in summary, 9.3x64 will give you true DG power (and recoil) at any sane range in a standard action rifle, but 9.3x62 is more comfortable to shoot, albeit, in truth, under-powered for DG, and has a bit of a rainbow trajectory, but ammo is common as dirt.

Being a reloader alleviates this last point. Stock up once and for all (just in case) on 9.3x64 brass and live happily ever after. And if the 9.3x64 full load power is not required, you can tune it down for milder recoil, hence you get the best of both worlds.

I would go 9.3x64.......................................

 

[MS 9x56]

When in doubt always go with the classic cartridge.

 

[rifletuner]

I have had rifles in 9.3x62, 9.3x66 and 9.3x64. The 9.3s are great game killers, very mild and shootable rifles. I cant say that I have seen significant performance differences from the different cartridges. I generally ran 250gn to 286gn bullets in the 9.3x62. Whereas I use the 320gn Woodleigh weldcore in the 9.3x64 which has been an emphatic killer. The 100 plus year old formula of a slow moving, heavy for calibre bullet is easy to shoot and kills well. However for something like buffalo or elephant I would be using something bigger.

So having said all that, I would probably stick with the 9.3x62 for the ease of building and wider availability of brass. But ultimately, build whatever you think you will be happiest with.

 

[Hunter4752001]

You might want to check whether the ZG47 magazine box will take the extra length of the 9.3x64 cartridge. If it doesn't then consult a gunsmith as to whether its viable to modify the magazine. Much better to be certain before chambering a fitting a barrel. I doubt there would be any problem with the action itself.

 

[Warren Knudsen]

9.3x62 is a classic in the zg47, it's the perfect action for the 9.3x62. I have just returned from a great plains game hunt with such a rifle. Performance was perfect

 

[Puddle]

Do you already have a .375 or larger in a bolt action?

If not, then consider the x64mm.

 

[wvfred]

If it were my decision I would go with the 9.3x62 as stated above the magazine box may not be long enough for the 9.3x64 and the geometry of the box may not work for the fatter cartridge.The feeding may be another issue and may need the rails worked that said I think the 9.3x62 would be the logical choice and is a very good cartridge.

 

[Dewald]

Consider that the first rifle chambered in a ZG47, serial number 00001 that belonged to the late Tony Harrison of City Guns in Cape Town was a deluxe model in 9,3x62.

I would build a replica of that fine rifle.

 

[sgt_zim]

Lessons learned from having reloaded 9.3x62 for a few years.

The published SAAMI COAL of 3.291" is WAY short for most rifles chambered in X62. I'm shooting 286 gr SAF at a chrony'd 2475 fps, with zero pressure signs - my COAL for that load for my recent trip to Limpopo was 3.325". You could probably get to 2650 or so with the X64, but even nearly 200 fps moves the needle almost not at all on ballistic arc, and not enough of an energy difference to make a difference at DG distances.

Even X62 brass is getting difficult to come by. As far as I can see, only PPU, Norma, and Nosler brass is available. If you've got 18 - 24 months to source components before you head over, you might could risk it with X64 brass.

The fastest bullet with the highest BC you're going to be able to shoot in either one is the 258 gr Shock Hammer - a good choice, with a BC of something like .43 or .44. You could probably get that north of 2700 fps in an X64, maybe even 2750 or 2800.

All that said...every gun shop in Africa has X62 ammo on the shelves if you should happen to get separated from your ammo in transit.

On paper, X64 is hands-down better. IRL, where logistics are a factor, it's no contest: X62 all the way.

 

[Just a dude in BC]

Thanks for all of the input Gents. There are a lot of good points here to ponder, feel free to keep them coming!

@Longwalker Almost zero chance I will ever head to Southern Rhodesia, likely only North Rhodesia and South Africa in my future. Good to hear it did your eland in!

@MS 9x56 I don’t know which one you consider classic? To me they both seem to have a great pedigree.

@Hunter4752001 I believe the ZG can take up to 3.44” as they are sometimes chambered in an 8x64s, so I think I should be good for the 9.3x64 at 3.37”

@Warren Knudsen good to see its getting the work done on that eland! She is a beauty!

@Puddle I do have a 375h&h in a bolt, and both a 450-400 & 500 NE in ruger no.1’s. I also have a 9.3x74 in a drilling. So I have a good smattering of things around these cals. But I am thinking of a 1 and done do all rifle for my next trip.

@wvfred that is a good point about feeding with a fatter cartridge

@sgt_zim The logistics can be a factor, but knock on wood I have yet to have a problem getting any ammo to SA.

I think I need to do a little math on loads with QL and then see what the recoil would look like.

 

[sgt_zim]

Logistics isn't a factor, until it is.

 

[shootist~]

2. I already have a 9.3x74r

No brainer, IMO. The x64 for something truly different.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

A 9.3x64mm Brenneke is almost ballistically identical to the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum. It is the superior cartridge. But only RWS currently manufactures ammunition for it.

If you don’t hand load, then opt for the 9.3x62mm Mauser. Factory loaded ammunition is much more widely available.

 

[Clodo Ferreira]

Hi dude,

If you already have a 375 I would make a 9,3x62 with your excelent Ferlach barrel and great ZG47. More so if you are an experienced reloader! The actual difference in muzzle velocity between both cartridges all things being the same (barrel lenght, bullet weight and aprox. pressure) is no more than 100 f/s. The cases capacity speak by themselves. The same difference comparing the 9,3x64 and the 375 H&H as the 9,3x64 is just in the middle.
I have both, a 9,3x62 and a 375 H&H and handload for them. As for all my rifles. There are 200 f/s between them with all bullet weights.
Having said this, there are few ZG47 factory made in 9,3x64. It is not too difficult to use that action for the x64.
What cartridge was your ZG 47 chambered originally for? Even for the 9,3x62 perhaps some minor fittings would be necessary...

Good luck!

CF

 

[sestoppelman]

I was actually thinking of the x64 myself recently, but brass availability being about nil has dissuaded me from getting serious about it.
Not to mention zero need of it.

 

[sestoppelman]

9.3x62 is a classic in the zg47, it's the perfect action for the 9.3x62. I have just returned from a great plains game hunt with such a rifle. Performance was perfect View attachment 631207

A wonderful bull!

 

[sgt_zim]

I was actually thinking of the x64 myself recently, but brass availability being about nil has dissuaded me from getting serious about it.
Not to mention zero need of it.

Yessir. If a hand loader takes advantage of the generous free bore/leade cut into most X62s, they're every bit the equal of 375.

I can't really see the utility in reaching past 250 or 300 yards with something bigger than 338. Inside 300 yards, it'll put the smack down on anything non-DG.