Hunting SA or "Wild" Africa - Which is Better

[Ontario Hunter]

The outfitter that took me to Zim was a crook however we hunted with Lloyd who had a great reputation with super references. He got himself into a no win situation and I'll leave it at that. I hunted Zambia with Clinton Stone, booked with Jason Stone. I believe he would be considered a top notch PH in Zambia. Didn't write a report because I didn't want it to seem as though I was mad about the hunt because I wasn't. We hunted as hard as you can hunt and saw tons of animals, just no hard bossed buffalo. Came home without firing a shot. Could have taken a croc or a hippo as there were many of them but had no desire for them. Enjoyed my time in Zambia and would hunt with Clint again but in another area. Cost was very similar to what I paid in SA. So you see, I'm not for or against either type of hunt. A hunt in SA if done correctly can be great as can a "wild" hunt. They are just different and that is the point I've been trying to make.

Gerry, just curious if either of those disappointments offered to make you a better deal on followup safari?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Impossible or sensible? [Insert thinking emoji.]

I would say buying cheap junk when you can afford better is the opposite of sensible

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I would say buying cheap junk when you can afford better is the opposite of sensible

Cheap doesn't mean it's junk. It's a great hat. Fits great, looks great, and tough as nails. Hardly junk. What's not to like? Blowing a lot of money on ornaments just to demonstrate the big spender has a lot of money is what I call "the opposite of sensible."

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Cheap doesn't mean it's junk. It's a great hat. Fits great, looks great, and tough as nails. Hardly junk. What's not to like? Blowing a lot of money on ornaments just to demonstrate the big spender has a lot of money is what I call "the opposite of sensible."

Actually it often does. You may be fortunate and it may last twenty years but that doesn’t change a thing. Not always but often. Reflecting (for the most part) the quality of manufacture, the quality of the materials and the skill level of labor involved. Possibly slave labor depending on country of origin… Why not give your hard earned money to a skilled craftsman when you can?

 

[375Fox]

The outfitter that took me to Zim was a crook however we hunted with Lloyd who had a great reputation with super references. He got himself into a no win situation and I'll leave it at that. I hunted Zambia with Clinton Stone, booked with Jason Stone. I believe he would be considered a top notch PH in Zambia. Didn't write a report because I didn't want it to seem as though I was mad about the hunt because I wasn't. We hunted as hard as you can hunt and saw tons of animals, just no hard bossed buffalo. Came home without firing a shot. Could have taken a croc or a hippo as there were many of them but had no desire for them. Enjoyed my time in Zambia and would hunt with Clint again but in another area. Cost was very similar to what I paid in SA. So you see, I'm not for or against either type of hunt. A hunt in SA if done correctly can be great as can a "wild" hunt. They are just different and that is the point I've been trying to make.

On your Zimbabwe hunt, a good PH unfortunately can’t make the area better. On your Zambia hunt, wild areas do change by the day. That’s really one of things I like most about it. Water, food, rain, lions can all dramatically change an area from day to day so no two hunts are ever same. Something to consider on a future hunt. I will only book with outfitters that have multiple camps and/or access to other areas. It’s something I’ve learned is important. If the game has moved, you need to move also for a successful hunt in a concession area. Driving the same road every day hoping for the best is just luck. Having another camp or area to change to will change your odds. It’s takes a lot more planning on outfitters part to make a successful hunt in a wild area.
What you wrote on South Africa is correct and a similar statement is actually written into one of my hunt reports here. It can be just as good as a hunt in a wild area. It’s just a different experience. However, for dangerous game I will only hunt in a wild area. I don’t want to have any doubts the animals are self sustaining and born on property. I think this is part the requires the research in South Africa with high fence, too many are careless with the truth.

 

[PARA45]

Impossible or sensible? [Insert thinking emoji.]

Practical maybe???

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Actually it often does. You may be fortunate and it may last twenty years but that doesn’t change a thing. Not always but often. Reflecting (for the most part) the quality of manufacture, the quality of the materials and the skill level of labor involved. Possibly slave labor depending on country of origin… Why not give your hard earned money to a skilled craftsman when you can?

Actually, I'm astute enough to recognize the difference between quality and wanton waste of money. And "hard earned" hit it right on the head. Back when I bought that hat I was working and living away from home. We had two kids to raise. I made a good wage but not great by any means. My late wife would have kicked my butt out of the house if I'd come home wearing some fancy custom cowboy hat that cost hundreds of dollars. You don't do that kind of foolishness with a mortgage and kids yet to put through college. And that hat has worn well the last fourteen years. I'm sure it will still look good when the undertaker dresses me. I buy from local craftsmen when I can. I've worn a Montana Silversmith buckle almost every day for the last twenty years. A bit of an extravagance but not ridiculous [and my wife bought it ]. We are in the taxidermy business so yes I appreciate those who shop local. As to my investing in "slave labour," have you bothered to find out what your trackers and lodge help are getting paid?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Actually, I'm astute enough to recognize the difference between quality and wanton waste of money. And "hard earned" hit it right on the head. Back when I bought that hat I was working and living away from home. We had two kids to raise. I made a good wage but not great by any means. My late wife would have kicked my butt out of the house if I'd come home wearing some fancy custom cowboy hat that cost hundreds of dollars. You don't do that kind of foolishness with a mortgage and kids yet to put through college. And that hat has worn well the last fourteen years. I'm sure it will still look good when the undertaker dresses me. I buy from local craftsmen when I can. I've worn a Montana Silversmith buckle almost every day for the last twenty years. A bit of an extravagance but not ridiculous [and my wife bought it ]. We are in the taxidermy business so yes I appreciate those who shop local. As to my investing in "slave labour," have you bothered to find out what your trackers and lodge help are getting paid?

Nowhere did I say that one should be financially irresponsible in order to own something nice and you’ll never hear me say that. I believe a person ought to buy the best they can afford in a financially responsible manner. That obviously is going to vary relative to one’s income. What is ridiculous to you is not ridiculous to someone else.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

You’re impossible lol

Sometimes it is what is under the hat that appreciates what is on top!

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I was born in wild Africa, live there, hunted there and pretty much driven it flat at a pace that would have allowed me to see wild animals if they were there. Mostly they are not, they are concentrated in remnants that are afforded protection, and there they are poached mercilessly. I have absolutely nothing against the fenced areas of South Africa because those fences don't keep game in, they keep humans out. They protect the game. Sure high density game areas in unfenced Africa are very special, but they are only there because people like you are willing to spend a bit more to hunt there and do so. So if you value this sort of Africa go there and use it, so the extremely high capital cost of high electric fences can be supplanted by the recurrent lower cost of anti poaching activities. People risking their lives. Not all areas will survive, but some are doing well, like Save, Sengwa and Omay. They will only continue to do so if there is the critical mass of clientelle to fund them.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I was born in wild Africa, live there, hunted there and pretty much driven it flat at a pace that would have allowed me to see wild animals if they were there. Mostly they are not, they are concentrated in remnants that are afforded protection, and there they are poached mercilessly. I have absolutely nothing against the fenced areas of South Africa because those fences don't keep game in, they keep humans out. They protect the game. Sure high density game areas in unfenced Africa are very special, but they are only there because people like you are willing to spend a bit more to hunt there and do so. So if you value this sort of Africa go there and use it, so the extremely high capital cost of high electric fences can be supplanted by the recurrent lower cost of anti poaching activities. People risking their lives. Not all areas will survive, but some are doing well, like Save, Sengwa and Omay. They will only continue to do so if there is the critical mass of clientelle to fund them.

Hunter's buck saves buck.

 

[Happy Myles]

I feel uncomfortable with the question, which is better South Africa or Wild Africa? Africa is a vast continent offering hunters a huge contrast in adventurous environment and quarry. I have been blessed with being able to hunt all over the continent annually for decades. For me the adventure is just as important as killing animals. During the early years I did not hunt South Africa because land owners were often struggling with domestic livestock before realizing they could make a living enhancing game animal hunts.
I had hunted traditional safari country including Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Botswana, before venturing to the jungle in Central African Republic. No PH met me at the airport so took a cab to what the driver said was the best hotel. The army had not been paid in months so were expressing displeasure by driving around Bangui shooting up office buildings. That was when I realized hunting was a way of life and not a past time. I still had a great adventure and collected a Forest Bongo and Forest Sitatunga. Think I took a Giant Forest Hog too. Have returned twice since then.
I hunted Ethiopia by miniature horse and yak collecting a Mountain Nyala. The landscape was so unique I half expected a Hobbit to pop out of the bushes.
During recent years, I have hunted all over South Africa and enjoyed what it has to offer.

The point is enjoy all the areas you can. Do not turn up your nose at one, just realize we are lucky to have had the opportunity to hunt any of them. Sadly, hunting in many countries has declined over the decades while hunting has improved in South Africa.
Do not wait go now!

 

[IvW]

I believe I have likely weighed in earlier, but at the danger of repeating myself, I have done both, I have been successful at both, I prefer the wild. I have hunted buffalo in Botswana, Mozambique, Zambia, Zimbabwe and RSA.

My preferred hunt, by a wide margin, is a tracking hunt. I do not know if there are ‘tracking’ hunts on SA ranches or not. My experience in RSA was spot and stalk. Personally, I would not fly to Africa for a spot and stalk PG hunt. That doesn’t make it bad, it’s just not how I would choose to spend my money.

So you only did spot and stalk in RSA? How did you do it in zim bots zam moz?? Walk straight out of camp every day?

 

[Scott CWO]

I feel uncomfortable with the question, which is better South Africa or Wild Africa? Africa is a vast continent offering hunters a huge contrast in adventurous environment and quarry. I have been blessed with being able to hunt all over the continent annually for decades. For me the adventure is just as important as killing animals. During the early years I did not hunt South Africa because land owners were often struggling with domestic livestock before realizing they could make a living enhancing game animal hunts.
I had hunted traditional safari country including Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Botswana, before venturing to the jungle in Central African Republic. No PH met me at the airport so took a cab to what the driver said was the best hotel. The army had not been paid in months so were expressing displeasure by driving around Bangui shooting up office buildings. That was when I realized hunting was a way of life and not a past time. I still had a great adventure and collected a Forest Bongo and Forest Sitatunga. Think I took a Giant Forest Hog too. Have returned twice since then.
I hunted Ethiopia by miniature horse and yak collecting a Mountain Nyala. The landscape was so unique I half expected a Hobbit to pop out of the bushes.
During recent years, I have hunted all over South Africa and enjoyed what it has to offer.

The point is enjoy all the areas you can. Do not turn up your nose at one, just realize we are lucky to have had the opportunity to hunt any of them. Sadly, hunting in many countries has declined over the decades while hunting has improved in South Africa.
Do not wait go now!

I agree. For newer African hunters, I would recommend saving up for at least one high quality wild area hunt before they are gone forever. You can always hunt fenced areas later.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I agree. For newer African hunters, I would recommend saving up for at least one high quality wild area hunt before they are gone forever. You can always hunt fenced areas later.

And when the money is saved up and the high quality wild areas are gone, then the big money boys move in to hunt the only thing left - fenced areas. So he'll be paying a lot more down the road for the same thing (at best!) he can buy now for a lot less.

I really don't see much advantage to waiting. Good SA hunts can be had now at good prices. Quality of hunting and cost will only get further out of reach. Gad, just look at what's happened to North American hunting over the last twenty years.

 

[375Fox]

And when the money is saved up and the high quality wild areas are gone, then the big money boys move in to hunt the only thing left - fenced areas. So he'll be paying a lot more down the road for the same thing (at best!) he can buy now for a lot less.

I really don't see much advantage to waiting. Good SA hunts can be had now at good prices. Quality of hunting and cost will only get further out of reach. Gad, just look at what's happened to North American hunting over the last twenty years.

I find it difficult not to reply to your posts. If you believe it then it must be true. Honestly if they could do it now they already would be, outfitters make use of what’s available in their country. They can’t simply jump ship to South Africa from other African countries. The South African outfitters actually operating concessions in Mozambique (not the one’s simply taking clients there) are are taking big risks and I’ll assume partly do it because hunting wild Africa is a passion for them. Private land hunts in South Africa or Namibia are generally assured to be profitable and significantly less risk. Day rates aren’t $1000+ per day in wild areas because they are making huge profits it’s because they paid up front to lease area, they had to buy quota up front, they have to put a huge amount into anti poaching or they won’t have an area to hunt. They require hunters to come in to repay these upfront costs to make a profit on top of this. Most outfitters operating on private land in South Africa and Namibia are paying a per day land use fee and per animal harvested and renting a lodge, so very minimal upfront risk because hunts pay for themselves as they occur. It’s a considerably safer business model.
You must be certain the number of hunters is increasing by the year to drive up this demand and they are interested in traveling to Africa? The first sheep hunt I did in Yukon was $11,000 in 2006. It is 3 times that amount now. The first plains game hunt I did was in Namibia in 2002. Current prices are less than 25% higher than that cost 20 years ago. Elephant prices are way down and have devalued wild areas. Lion hunts are way down as well and devalue wild areas. Sable and Roan prices have come down dramatically everywhere because South Africa farmed so many. Sadly demand and hunter numbers are likely going to fall at a similar pace to declining African areas from population growth. Trophy bans if implemented will have a huge effect on future demand as well. I can’t disagree now isn’t a time to go hunt anywhere, but there is nothing to back up your theory about rapidly rising prices in fenced areas, most evidence says you are incorrect. South Africa’s long term future seems far from certain either. Government corruption appears to be increasing and the land question will be a recurring issue as the black population grows exponentially.

 

[375Fox]

If the price tag wasn't outer limits, I might be inclined to try the tent gig with lions keeping me up at night, villagers wandering through, dodging poachers' snares, etc. I've had my share of tent camp hunting back in the days I had livestock. But I was always alone, not hunting with a guide or merry band. Very hard to top those days.

My first trip to South Africa was a great experience. Four other hunters at the lodge but two of them were gone to remote locations almost the entire time. The other two were father and son. Next two trips I was the ONLY client. Most of those hunts I stayed on family farms away from the lodge. Never thought I would enjoy hunting with anyone but both those two PH's were great. Genuinely nice guys, not patronizing arse kissers. I ate ham & cheese sandwiches for lunch every day (if I ate lunch) and totally fine with it. No tablecloths, wine glasses, cigars (ugh!), etc. Waste of time and staff's energy. I'm there to hunt. Two stalks were so-so but the other 22 animals were challenging very wild animals. That's a pretty good ratio. Too bad I had such a lousy experience with the taxidermist and shipper. That almost wrecked it. So ... why should I spend a lot more money someplace else and risk maybe not having a good time? I'm into the personal family atmosphere and hard hunting, not the pretend romantic scene. But that's just me.

Just to respond as well to this image you created in your mind. There are community areas with villages typically at a much better price and huge safari areas with zero villages or people, you will not see villagers wandering through these areas. Tent camps in Africa are equally comfortable as permanent camps and have all same amenities. They do not compare to a tent camp in a wilderness area of North America. I’ve yet to be kept up at night by roaring lions but I really hope the day comes. If you really want to hunt hard and hunt with a PH that doesn’t have time for BS, go on a tracking hunt in a wild area. The opportunities aren’t there to give up hours and relax or pass opportunities until your animal is down possibly on last evening of an exhausting 10 day hunt.

Also parts of South Africa that are conducive to snaring have problems as well and need patrolled. Warthogs are particularly susceptible on fence line. Here is a wildebeest from a fenced farm in Limpopo. Snaring is a problem everywhere.

 

[revturbo9967]

And when the money is saved up and the high quality wild areas are gone, then the big money boys move in to hunt the only thing left - fenced areas. So he'll be paying a lot more down the road for the same thing (at best!) he can buy now for a lot less.

I really don't see much advantage to waiting. Good SA hunts can be had now at good prices. Quality of hunting and cost will only get further out of reach. Gad, just look at what's happened to North American hunting over the last twenty years.

Good wild hunts can be had for good prices too. Not exactly sure what’s so unobtainable. If you can hunt SA twice, then you can easily afford a hunt somewhere else .

 

[WAB]

So you only did spot and stalk in RSA? How did you do it in zim bots zam moz?? Walk straight out of camp every day?

Drive til we cut promising tracks and then follow them on foot.

 

[WAB]

Drive til we cut promising tracks and then follow them on foot.

It may be a terminology disconnect. To me, spot and stalk is walking or driving until you see an animal and then planning a stalk. It’s how we hunt bear in Alaska.

Tracking is walking or driving until you find promising tracks and then following said tracks to the animal. This is what I go to Africa for. I have successfully hunted elephant, buffalo, eland and a few other head of PG this way.

Driving until you see an animal and then shooting it from the vehicle is, in my mind, not hunting at all.