Hunting distances- how far is too far?

[Mtn_Infantry]

For me it’s going to depend on the animal, where I’m hunting, and what I’m hunting with. If it’s a coyote, there really isn’t a max range. Western hunting; 800-1000yds if I’ve got the right set-up. I took a pronghorn several years ago a little shy of 900yds.

 

[1dirthawker]

an interesting question.

i suspect that a lot depends on what animal you are hunting. i can't imagine any PH allowing a client to shoot an unwounded elephant at 100 yards, not to mention 300 yards. or shooting a lion at 200 yards or an unwounded cape buffalo, etc.

the clients that bear hunt with us for brown bears are held to a 200 yard limit by the guides and that distance of a shot rarely occurs.

as noted before, the follow up shot is as critical as the first one if the shot leads to a poor hit. the farther away, the tougher it is. some animals will be hit pretty well and still need follow up shots.

shooting at a deer at 300 yards is one thing, shooting at dangerous game at that distance would be largely irresponsible. obviously, the deer wont kill you AND you ARE going to pay the trophy fee for that wounded buffalo, lion, brown bear etc.

i was more prone to shooting farther away when i was younger and in a bit of a magnum/"speed kills" phase of my hunting. i like to think that as i have aged i have become more measured in my willingness to over extend my actual shooting abilities.

so i will repeat, probably depends on what you are hunting.

 

[grand veneur]

It effectively depends mostly on what you are hunting, but also where you are hunting.

In Africa I only see the possible necessity of such shots in very open terrain at PG, like in many regions of Namibia for example. I myself have never shot anything at longer distances in Africa.

The biggest animal I have shot at a greater distance, was a European bison, a Wisent. In order not to provoke strange reactions again, I will not give any details about this action with a rifle caliber 460 WBY-Magnum, but due to the open country and the special conditions of such hunts at that time in Belarus, I had no choice. Everything went well and the matter was finished with one shot. Long-range shooting requires as know in all cases in advance a perfect knowledge of the external ballistic of your weapon, also of that of a big bore rifle, and in this case being able to shoot from various positions with such rifles.

 

[mark-hunter]

300 meters and less, for skilled hunter who knows his rifle, majority of shots at 100 - 200 meters.

Anything above that, is high tech shooting at best. (to give polite name)
But if the shooter is not skilled and not up to it, then it is exhibitionism at the expense of wounded animal.

 

[grand veneur]

Is correct, but that is why you have to practice, but above all, determine the ballistics of all weapons that have to shoot far at some point. In practice this means shooting at 100m, 200m and 300m, with appropriate cartridges and bullets, and then also regularly try to shoot certain weapons at 1000m,
even if you never intend to shoot more than 500 yards/450m at game. At some point you will also master shooting with a rifle zeroing for MPBR.

All of this remains certainly very theoretical and, as was pointed out at the beginning of the topic, what may satisfy you at the shooting range can look very different on the terrain. Despite everything, once again, the long range shooting at game remains for me a very uncertain thing and has to be used only in situations where you really don't have an alternative.

 

[grand veneur]

In order to have the best chance of shooting accurate at long range, one need a suitable weapon and cartridge. The problem remains by such weapons, like this for example, an older model by McMillan in caliber 338 Lapua Magnum, are long and heavy and therefore not exactly ideal for hunting in the high mountains.

 

[Inline6]

That looks to be a lot lighter than my 338LM. Rigged out it was pushing 18#s. Which is lighter than my comp rifle by several pounds. I'm not a fan of light weight rifles, I understand why people like then. I rather spend a little more time in the gym and carry a heavier rifle.

 

[grand veneur]

This rifle is 130 cm long and 7 kg heavy. The barrel is 29" long and make up most of the weight.

 

[HankBuck]

When I first started reading this thread - I thought “I must be the worst rifle shot in America”....as some stated they consistently shoot 6” groups at 500 yrds and 4” groups at 600 yrds - from Field/Hunting positions ! That is some damn good shooting, especially if “Field/Hunting” positions = standing off hand, kneeling, or an improvised rest (lean against tree etc..). I know that I can Not shoot that well and never will. Then I started thinking (always dangerous) and I’m gonna assume that most of those 500-600 yrd shots are off a bipod or prone off a backpack/rock etc and always at an exact known distance (dialed in for 600 yrds is a Miss if target is 525).
Now, I am still Not in the same league as these shooters - but feel a little better. I shoot almost all my big game with .30-06 and .270, feel comfortable out to 300 yrds (deer/antelope) sitting with bipod or prone (and Not being rushed or out-of-breath). Would say 400 yrds my max and conditions need to be close to perfect and animal “cooperating” (broadside & big deer or Elk size). My last “factor” is my emotion - excitement level because if it is high - all bets are off. I missed my first buck (standing broadside at 50 yrds) and I was sitting with rifle well supported on my knees, missed him clean (and he was only a spike!). Buck fever... As I’ve now hunted many years longer and taken many good animals - I can still get excited “if” the animal is something that I REALLY want. I’m use to taking good deer & bear and remain calm, even a nice Griz in Alaska didn’t raise my pulse rate because I “expected” to get a nice Griz on that hunt. But that same year, saw a coyote crossing a frozen lake 80 yrds, it stopped, I missed and then missed 3 more shots as it “trotted & slipped” away across that lake...my heart was “pounding” because I’d never shot a coyote and Really wanted that one. I know many hunters are better at controlling their emotions or just don’t get excited over anything - I’m Not one of them.....I enjoy the heart pounding, I only shoot better now because it takes “more” to get my heart pounding - but when it does my shooting accuracy drops by 50%.

 

[WAB]

When I first started reading this thread - I thought “I must be the worst rifle shot in America”....as some stated they consistently shoot 6” groups at 500 yrds and 4” groups at 600 yrds - from Field/Hunting positions ! That is some damn good shooting, especially if “Field/Hunting” positions = standing off hand, kneeling, or an improvised rest (lean against tree etc..). I know that I can Not shoot that well and never will. Then I started thinking (always dangerous) and I’m gonna assume that most of those 500-600 yrd shots are off a bipod or prone off a backpack/rock etc and always at an exact known distance (dialed in for 600 yrds is a Miss if target is 525).
Now, I am still Not in the same league as these shooters - but feel a little better. I shoot almost all my big game with .30-06 and .270, feel comfortable out to 300 yrds (deer/antelope) sitting with bipod or prone (and Not being rushed or out-of-breath). Would say 400 yrds my max and conditions need to be close to perfect and animal “cooperating” (broadside & big deer or Elk size). My last “factor” is my emotion - excitement level because if it is high - all bets are off. I missed my first buck (standing broadside at 50 yrds) and I was sitting with rifle well supported on my knees, missed him clean (and he was only a spike!). Buck fever... As I’ve now hunted many years longer and taken many good animals - I can still get excited “if” the animal is something that I REALLY want. I’m use to taking good deer & bear and remain calm, even a nice Griz in Alaska didn’t raise my pulse rate because I “expected” to get a nice Griz on that hunt. But that same year, saw a coyote crossing a frozen lake 80 yrds, it stopped, I missed and then missed 3 more shots as it “trotted & slipped” away across that lake...my heart was “pounding” because I’d never shot a coyote and Really wanted that one. I know many hunters are better at controlling their emotions or just don’t get excited over anything - I’m Not one of them.....I enjoy the heart pounding, I only shoot better now because it takes “more” to get my heart pounding - but when it does my shooting accuracy drops by 50%.

You are exactly right. I made the statement about the 600 yard shots. I can’t shoot effectively at that distance with my standard hunting rifles set up with German No4 or plex reticles. I use a specialty rig for this work and it is honestly just for Coues deer. Here are some clarifying points on the LR shots:

- rifle is a full custom 6.5 PRC capable of stacking bullets at 200. Critical for this application, it has a tremendous trigger (trigger tech).
- scope is a 4-18x MK 5 with ballistic turrets. I’m not a fan of these on standard hunting rifles, but they are key on a rig like this.
- I use a Sig rangefinder and ballistics program set for my load
- groups are shot prone and sitting with a bipod using and eberlestock gunrunner pack for rear support. This pack is perfect laid down for prone support and inverted vertical for sitting support.
- I have my own range and I shoot a lot. That has helped me develop field positions that provide bench like stability. If I am in the field with that rifle I have everything I use to make the shots on the range.

What is really funny is that I get excited when I see an odd wind on the farm. I grab my kit, rush out, study the wind effects on the trees and grass, and then start sending some shots downrange. Elevation is easy but windage is a bitch.

 

[grand veneur]

I am primarily a shooter, so I am very demanding when it comes to accuracy, but shooting is not hunting.

The aim of hunting is to keep a game in place by an adequate shot placement and also to kill it as quickly as possible. This is possible when you hit the vital zone of these animals. For this you don't need a precision that is in the 1 MOA range at greater distance. If that were the case, hardly anyone could shoot a game at greater distances with his hunting rifle.

For example, size of vital zones of different game.

 

[Rickmt]

Long range shooting is very popular here in Montana. Many of my friends are good out to 600+ yards. They have practiced and gone to one or more of the shooting schools.
I am a 350-400 yard max with a good rest shooter. I have seen critters walk out of the shot as WAB described .

 

[JG26_Irish]

I am prepping for a Safari in the not too distant future and was not very experienced shooting from tripod sticks. I am a former National Champion benchrest shooter which does little to improve my off-hand field shooting. From a bench with a good CF rifle/scope/ammo combo, I am completely comfortable consistently hitting 4/3/2" plates at 400y. The smallest is a hard but doable shot with some rifles but not all. I event shoot the larger 12" and 8" plates at 400y with a 22lr (try that sometime). I can go further with the centerfires and do well out past 600y most of the time. But... Put me on the sticks, standing with the 375 and I can consistently hit the 6" groups at 100 and 200y and do OK at 300y using a low power scope 2.5x. Today if facing game animals I think I would want to keep it all inside of 250y with that rifle. I would be more willing to go further with my 308 but only on lighter framed game. I only started my preparations recently and intend to practice off the sticks for a good long while prior to my trip. Deer and squirrel hunting from them will be my habit this fall as well as range time. I keep both rifles zeroed at 200y Which makes them an inch or two high at 100y and 3 inches low at 250y for both rifles using the Barnes heavy weight bullets that I plan to use. I like the simplicity of being able to aim to about the same POA and expect the same POI with either rifle out to those ranges. Even if my confidence at longer ranges improves, I doubt seriously I would even consider shooting at a longer quarry in the field. I am not talking about shooting North American antelope on open plains at 400+ yds. That is a different deal and would call for different tools. This disertation would apply only to plains game in SA in the northern bushvelt regions. In such areas where cover is abundant, there would be less opportunities to shoot further and no reason to do so.

Now for DG such as buffalo, the game is another thing altogether. If, I get to hunt a buff and the jury is still out for that. I would want my PH to work with me to help us close to inside of 100y minimum. The 375 is the minimum cal but can be enough as long as it is well placed and good quality projectiles used and you are close enough to get good expansion and penetration. The 300g X bullet as a first followed by a cup point solid for any follow up shots. I am not an experienced African hunter but am a very experienced North American Game hunter and what I lack in expertise I hope to compensate for with practice, preparation and attention to detail. For me much of the fun of this experience so far has been in the study and preparation. The gathering of new equipment and the honing of new skills. The experience of Africa is what I am seeking and really the shot, once taken, is the sad period at the end of the sentence.

 

[IvW]

If you are not 100% confident you will kill it with your first shot....

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I am prepping for a Safari in the not too distant future and was not very experienced shooting from tripod sticks. I am a former National Champion benchrest shooter which does little to improve my off-hand field shooting. From a bench with a good CF rifle/scope/ammo combo, I am completely comfortable consistently hitting 4/3/2" plates at 400y. The smallest is a hard but doable shot with some rifles but not all. I event shoot the larger 12" and 8" plates at 400y with a 22lr (try that sometime). I can go further with the centerfires and do well out past 600y most of the time. But... Put me on the sticks, standing with the 375 and I can consistently hit the 6" groups at 100 and 200y and do OK at 300y using a low power scope 2.5x. Today if facing game animals I think I would want to keep it all inside of 250y with that rifle. I would be more willing to go further with my 308 but only on lighter framed game. I only started my preparations recently and intend to practice off the sticks for a good long while prior to my trip. Deer and squirrel hunting from them will be my habit this fall as well as range time. I keep both rifles zeroed at 200y Which makes them an inch or two high at 100y and 3 inches low at 250y for both rifles using the Barnes heavy weight bullets that I plan to use. I like the simplicity of being able to aim to about the same POA and expect the same POI with either rifle out to those ranges. Even if my confidence at longer ranges improves, I doubt seriously I would even consider shooting at a longer quarry in the field. I am not talking about shooting North American antelope on open plains at 400+ yds. That is a different deal and would call for different tools. This disertation would apply only to plains game in SA in the northern bushvelt regions. In such areas where cover is abundant, there would be less opportunities to shoot further and no reason to do so.

Now for DG such as buffalo, the game is another thing altogether. If, I get to hunt a buff and the jury is still out for that. I would want my PH to work with me to help us close to inside of 100y minimum. The 375 is the minimum cal but can be enough as long as it is well placed and good quality projectiles used and you are close enough to get good expansion and penetration. The 300g X bullet as a first followed by a cup point solid for any follow up shots. I am not an experienced African hunter but am a very experienced North American Game hunter and what I lack in expertise I hope to compensate for with practice, preparation and attention to detail. For me much of the fun of this experience so far has been in the study and preparation. The gathering of new equipment and the honing of new skills. The experience of Africa is what I am seeking and really the shot, once taken, is the sad period at the end of the sentence.

You might be overthinking that 375. Most PHs won't let a client shoot at buffalo past 70 yards (most of the time they aren't visible any further than that anyway). It is one thing to be "proficient" on the sticks at the range but quite another affair when an animal is in sight after a long stalk. Don't hesitate to tell your PH if you're not steady enough on the sticks. He can help brace your shooting arm. It can make a big difference.

 

[375Fox]

i suspect that a lot depends on what animal you are hunting. i can't imagine any PH allowing a client to shoot an unwounded elephant at 100 yards, not to mention 300 yards. or shooting a lion at 200 yards or an unwounded cape buffalo, etc.

the clients that bear hunt with us for brown bears are held to a 200 yard limit by the guides and that distance of a shot rarely occurs.

as noted before, the follow up shot is as critical as the first one if the shot leads to a poor hit. the farther away, the tougher it is. some animals will be hit pretty well and still need follow up shots.

shooting at a deer at 300 yards is one thing, shooting at dangerous game at that distance would be largely irresponsible. obviously, the deer wont kill you AND you ARE going to pay the trophy fee for that wounded buffalo, lion, brown bear etc.

i was more prone to shooting farther away when i was younger and in a bit of a magnum/"speed kills" phase of my hunting. i like to think that as i have aged i have become more measured in my willingness to over extend my actual shooting abilities.

so i will repeat, probably depends on what you are hunting.

Your comment made me think of this. I remembered this YouTube video because of how surprised I was to see 145 yards on elephant. The shot is at 10 minute mark.

 

[mdwest]

You might be overthinking that 375. Most PHs won't let a client shoot at buffalo past 70 yards (most of the time they aren't visible any further than that anyway). It is one thing to be "proficient" on the sticks at the range but quite another affair when an animal is in sight after a long stalk. Don't hesitate to tell your PH if you're not steady enough on the sticks. He can help brace your shooting arm. It can make a big difference.

Yep.

I shot my bull at 30 yards… my wife took her buff cow at about 50 yards, and the shot was only that far because the herd was on to us and if we tried to get any closer they would have run…

Combine that with the huge kill shot area of a buff, and there is little to worry about if you have at least reasonable shooting skills…

Just keep calm and focused and put the first round where it belongs (which is more of a basketball sized target than a golf ball sized target) and you’ll be fine…

 

[375Fox]

You might be overthinking that 375. Most PHs won't let a client shoot at buffalo past 70 yards (most of the time they aren't visible any further than that anyway). It is one thing to be "proficient" on the sticks at the range but quite another affair when an animal is in sight after a long stalk. Don't hesitate to tell your PH if you're not steady enough on the sticks. He can help brace your shooting arm. It can make a big difference.

Depends where you are hunting. I don’t think any PH would say anything under 100. After maybe 120 I think most would ask you what you think if they trust your shooting.

 

[Phil Giordano]

To me, it would be 350 yrds at a big, non dangerous game like Elk or Moose, 300 at smaller deer withetail size, and far closer to a DG. African DG deserve less than 100, generally speaking. This, with my old fashioned "wood and blue" (but accurate) rifles. I would add that, talking about shooting distance in hunting, I will always be more impressed by an hunter who shots at (to say) 100 yrds, than by another who shots at 400 or more - since to me, the hardest part is close the distance the most you can.

 

[Tanks]

For DG the longest shot I have ever taken for any of my elephants or buffalo has been a tad over 60 meters.

Now, one thing to also practice is shooting off-hand and/or hasty sling. Sticks might not be practical at times. One time I was at a riverbed and the sticks sank into the sand and were unstable. Hasty sling to the rescue.