How many PH's are actually using double rifles?

[Mtn_Infantry]

Both Zim PH’s I’ve hunted with carried bolt guns. One was a 500 Jeffery.

All 3 Namibian PH’s carried bolt guns. 2 were 458 Lotts and 1 was an old 458WM that he used shooting elephants for the Government.

All 4 of the PH’s on my RSA DG Hunts carried Bolt Guns. 1-458WM, 1-Pre64 375, 1-416 Rem, and 1-458 Lott

I had a PG PH in Limpopo who carried a KGun DR in 470 while bushbuck hunting along the Limpopo River. He had a couple previous issues with a very specific bull hippo. Before he bought that gun, he carried a No 1 on 416 that his son (also a PH) was now using.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I'm a rookie but here is my experience with PH guns in the last 4 years.
I carry a scoped 375 ruger Alaskan scoped with a leopold 2-7x33 with 260gr nosler acubonds for accuracy, and 300gr for bigger plains game. (Giraffe, Eland etc.)
On DG hunts I use a 416 ruger Alaskan open sighted rifle (muscle memory having the same stocks). Most PH's order this gun after working with it, so its the fit and nearly no felt recoil that hooks them...I presume. Ammo is also cheap and has the traits of a good DG bolt action. Maser type action with the claw extractor. Its short, light and looks like a working gun. They're also cheap compared to other rifles.
I find doubles very heavy and you only have 2 shots and some have heavy recoil, which can make a difference on charges.
Most PH's I've seen use CZ 550, Winchester, BRUNO bolt actions and the answer is the same...I have a 3rd of 4th shot when I need it.
Devils advocate: If a bolt jams or fails...you're done...a double has a second clean barrel.

Kind regards and just my 2c.
Peet

What country are you in, it makes a difference.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Good afternoon gents,

I just had a generic question that I hope I can get feedback primarily from active guides and PH's.

Do you carry a double or have you moved to a bolt gun or do you go back and forth?

What caliber are you carrying on a daily basis?

I know there are a lot of opinions out there but I am looking for some straight forward answers from the guys in the ground.

Cheers

4 of the 6 PHs that we use, use double rifle all 470 evans, gibbs, heym & chapuis.

 

[Bullhunter]

The most (so called) PHs I meet:
- Dont have the expierience/connections with doubles
- Dont have the money (10 k up) to buy a good one

Of course there are some exeptions, like "the star PHs" or some "true gentleman" (like Lon here, he has some of the greates rifles Ive ever seen, some real collector rifles).

 

[grand veneur]

The majority of the hunter here on the Forum hunt in southern Africa where the PH are trained and graduated. I don't think there are such as (so called) PH there. In other parts of Africa it might be different. I therefore assume that they are also able to handle a big bore double rifle without special training. To have the money to buy such a rifle is another problem.

 

[Bullhunter]

In southern Africa you go for two weeks to an "PH Academy" (I was also there, in person, in the best, leaded by the late and great I. G.).
Thats it.

 

[Bullhunter]

In other countrys (in europe) you go to an three year full-time (Mo.- to Fr., 40 houres a week) school.

Bundesverband Deutscher Berufsjäger e. V. (BDB)

berufsjaegerverband.de

Then you an "buisness hunter".

Then you have to go to "the field".
Minimum 3 years.

Then you have to get your colleage exam.
Then you go to an hart test.
Then you go to the university, three years also.
Then you have to pas some hard test.
Then you are an "prof. hunter".

 

[grand veneur]

You cannot compare them, a PH in Germany plays a completely different role. He may guided clients from time to time, but his main task is to manage a hunting area with everything that goes with it, game and hunting, but also forestry and agriculture.

 

[Bullhunter]

Please, that you dont miss-understand it:

a.)
I dont mean my meassage on an personal way.
I dont want to blame anyone.

b.)
There are some great PHs out there in africa.
No question.
I meet many of them (sometimes in hunting, sometimes an longer meetings).

c.)
But there are many..., many ... "not so good ones".
That is one reason why I prefer to hunt "alone".

d.)
An south-african PH has not only the job "to guied hunters" (I dont like the word clients, an lawer and ingernier had clients), he/she/d/x is responseble for wildlife and nature, to controll, to "fight" against poachers, look for ... (many thinks that dont belongs to hunting in the first line...).
I had learned it in an PH-Academy directly.

 

[Bullhunter]

In the moment I read the life-story of this gentleman.
He was an true "professional hunter".

 

[Philip Glass]

I’ve only had 2 PH’s carry doubles on all my hunts.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Some famous white hunters who carry double rifles as their current backup rifle of choice:
Jeff Rann- .500 Nitro Express 3” William Evans boxlock ejector
Mark Sullivan- .577 Nitro Express Heym Model 88B
&
.600 Nitro Express Charles Osborne back action hammer
Robin Hurt- .500 Nitro Express 3” William Evans boxlock ejector
John Sharp- .470 Nitro Express John Rigby & Co. sidelock ejector
Buzz Charlton- .500 Nitro Express 3” Heym Model 88B
Danny Mc Callum- .450 Nitro Express #2 Watson Bros boxlock ejector


Two things to remember about double rifles:
I) They’re expensive
II) They’re pickier than kindergarten children when it comes to what they eat (i.e ammunition which they regulate properly with)

Among all the white hunters who have been guiding me on my African safaris ever since 1974, I’ve seen 13 who carry double rifles. The ones who carry new double rifles invariably opt for Merkels, Kreighoffs, Heyms, Verney Carrons or Chapuises.

The ones who own English double rifles invariably buy them secondhand. I’ve spoken to Jeff Rann, Mark Sullivan and Robin Hurt in great detail about this. In his entire career and after using so many double rifles ever since 1983, Jeff has only ever owned ONE double rifle which was brand new- A Beretta sidelock ejector in .470 Nitro Express which Beretta gifted him when they were sponsoring the “Jeff Rann Show”. In his entire career, Mark has only ever had ONE double rifle which he ever actually had made for himself- A Watson Brothers sidelock ejector in .700 Nitro Express which he only ever used for the season of 1998 before deciding that it was too much gun even for him. Every single double rifle that Robin Hurt has ever owned, was built pre World War II. John Sharp’s .470 Nitro Express was originally built in 1927. Danny Mc Callum’s .450 Nitro Express #2 Watson Bros boxlock ejector was originally built in 1907. English double rifles are just far too expensive for the average white hunter. And this is not just limited to modern times either. Dave Ommanney & Andrew Holmberg both bought their .470 Nitro Express John Rigby & Co. sidelock ejectors secondhand during their careers.

Ammunition availability is often an issue in many African countries, so picking a double rifle (which is regulated to only produce accurate results with one particular brand & type of ammunition) is not really practically feasible for most white hunters until they have been “In The Game” for a while.

Much also depends upon the type of terrain where the white hunter operates (as well as the quarry he is pursuing or guiding for). For instance, white hunters guiding in the thick Tanzanian bush will benefit from using an open sighted double rifle since shots will be close & fast. By contrast, a white hunter guiding in the Kalahari will benefit form using a telescopic sighted magazine rifle since shots will be taken at relatively longer ranges in open terrain.

Much also depends upon the type of quarry being pursued and how they’re being pursued. Leopard over bait in Zimbabwe ? Give me a telescopic sighted magazine rifle, anyday. Leopard over hounds in Botswana ? I’ll take an open sighted double rifle, please.

 

[Rare Breed]

I’ve only had 2 PH’s carry doubles on all my hunts.

I’ve only had one

 

[Rare Breed]

I do believe though it is strictly a money issue. All my PHs would love to have a DR but the high cost just put it out of reach. Also reloading is usually a problem for them and with a DR it is almost a requirement to they opt for a bolt action

 

[Andrew62]

I've never had a guide use a double before.

 

[375Fox]

I’ve hunted with 4 PHs in South Africa only 1 had a double. I’ve hunted with 4 PHs elsewhere in Africa that hunt DG concessions primarily 3 of them carried doubles. Most PHs want one especially those hunting DG but it’s a cost issue. Almost none that carry a double want to go back to a bolt action though.

 

[WAB]

Interesting question. I’ve been on quite a few safaris, almost all for DG. To date, my PH has not carried a double in rifle. The calibers in order of prevalence were: .458 Lott, .375 H&H, .458 WM, .416 Rigby, .450 Rigby, ..450 AI.

 

[Philip Glass]

I’ve only had one

And one of mine received his English double as a gift from a client.

 

[375Fox]

And one of mine received his English double as a gift from a client.

I have to wonder how many less there will be in future. At least one of my PHs doubles was a gift too. Now in countries like Namibia the gun permit says it must be exported. Apparently it use to be easy to leave a rifle not too long ago.

 

[Red Leg]

Please, that you dont miss-understand it:

a.)
I dont mean my meassage on an personal way.
I dont want to blame anyone.

b.)
There are some great PHs out there in africa.
No question.
I meet many of them (sometimes in hunting, sometimes an longer meetings).

c.)
But there are many..., many ... "not so good ones".
That is one reason why I prefer to hunt "alone".

d.)
An south-african PH has not only the job "to guied hunters" (I dont like the word clients, an lawer and ingernier had clients), he/she/d/x is responseble for wildlife and nature, to controll, to "fight" against poachers, look for ... (many thinks that dont belongs to hunting in the first line...).
I had learned it in an PH-Academy directly.

I have found the vast majority of PHs with whom I have hunted to be quite professional, though admittedly that has only included two hunts in South Africa. Because I am a US citizen, the option of hunting "alone" doesn't really exist in any practical way in Southern Africa or Europe.

PH training, at least in my experience, is pretty darn thorough in Namibia, Zim, and Zambia. My PHs in Moz were all originally licensed in Zimbabwe.

I have no problem being called a "client." I certainly prefer it to term "sports" which is the name we used for clients when I guided waterfowl hunts back in the day. Lord knows the term "hunter" certainly didn't apply to all of them.

With respect to the OP's question, Nick Nolte, with whom I have hunted on three occasions, carries a .470 Krieghoff when guiding for dangerous game. Jamy Traut, with whom I hunted in the Caprivi, carries a .500 by the same maker. My son's PH in the Zambezi Delta also carried a Krieghoff .500, though my friend Boet remains true to his Mauser 66 in .458. Of the remainder, CZ's in either .375, .416, and .458 WM or Lott predominated.