How concerned should I be?

[Ontario Hunter]

Hopefully, you can resolve it amicably on Monday. If not, document a summary of discussion in an email to the PH/owner: "This will confirm our phone conversation of today's date ... blah, blah. ... Be advised this dispute is already a topic of considerable interest on Africa Hunting Forum [insert link to this thread]. I would hope for all concerned we can still find a better resolution."

Good luck.

 

[Rem280]

I believe thus is where I am. The problem is, if I pay it, I'm just a cuck who can be stepped-on/walked-on so who cares. I'm already bitter. I don't want to hang out with the PH nor be dependent on someone who obviously thinks I'm a doormat.

If I don't pay, and push them into honoring the original contract, then the PH will be bitter, and again, I'm not interested in spending time with someone who thinks I'm a jerk. I definitely don't want to be dependent on them.

At this point, I'm pretty sure I'm done with this company. The only question remaining is do they give me my deposit back? If so, I could forget the whole thing. I'm still going to be out $3k for airfare but not $8k.

Or, it gets a little bit nasty.

Thank you all very much for sharing your insights and experiences. I couldn't find anyone to partner up with so this trip is solo. This wonderful group of people on this wonderful forum is awesome and invaluable.

You guys are AWESOME!

Thanks again!

crossone

I am sure another outfitter could fit you in. Assuming you are flying to J-Berg first.

 

[DillonG]

My main concern is the timing. It is highly convenient to have a change this close to your hunt. I have not seen a safari contract yet, but I have negotiated contracts for work typically the 6-7 figure style. Negotiating can be done in several ways. If the contract language states that pricing can be changed at any time for any reason, that is not a great contract for the buyer. I personally wouldn’t sign that, but everyone has their own threshold for risk.

I agree with a lot of the other posts. Have the introductory call with the outfitter. Get something in writing if they agree to hold the price. An email does hold up legally if needed. A phone call can as well, but would need recorded. If you are insisting on maintaining the price, you can always let the outfitter know that you will agree. Let them know that you will be providing a review of your hunt on this forum and letting people know about the last minute price change. Most business people want to keep a positive reputation, so I think that is a good strategy.

Also remember, be as tactful as possible. You are expecting the outfitter to put on a great hunt after all.

 

[crossone]

I really appreciate you guys (and gals) giving me your advice and listening to my gripe.

I agree that the Outfitter's name should be shared with the rest of you (believe me, I would want to know as well) but I don't want to ruin anyone. I will say, that they're a small outfit and don't post here, so that should be some help.

Thanks again,

crossone

 

[Scott CWO]

I believe thus is where I am. The problem is, if I pay it, I'm just a cuck who can be stepped-on/walked-on so who cares. I'm already bitter. I don't want to hang out with the PH nor be dependent on someone who obviously thinks I'm a doormat.

If I don't pay, and push them into honoring the original contract, then the PH will be bitter, and again, I'm not interested in spending time with someone who thinks I'm a jerk. I definitely don't want to be dependent on them.

At this point, I'm pretty sure I'm done with this company. The only question remaining is do they give me my deposit back? If so, I could forget the whole thing. I'm still going to be out $3k for airfare but not $8k.

Or, it gets a little bit nasty.

Thank you all very much for sharing your insights and experiences. I couldn't find anyone to partner up with so this trip is solo. This wonderful group of people on this wonderful forum is awesome and invaluable.

You guys are AWESOME!

Thanks again!

crossone

I think you are correct but I think you should take a breath and just talk to the outfitter and politely explain your feelings. You seem to be riled up. Your response email was pretty rough considering you’re supposed to be hunting with them soon. Best to just be businesslike, not rude.

I wouldn’t automatically assume the outfitter has bad intentions without talking to him. His costs might have increased sharply and he’s trying to get his hunters to cover it, even though he shouldn’t. In 34 years in this industry I’ve never increased the price of a hunt after contracted but lots of businessmen aren’t the best at business. He could be a great PH but not much of a businessman. See if you can work it out. You seem to have went from 0 to 100 pretty quickly. Good luck!

 

[Scott CWO]

It’s straight forward on his website. He is definitely up front about the possibility of additional money that could be owed with rising costs year to year. A few hundred dollars wouldn’t be to big a deal but a couple thousand would be a different story

The problem is that most mule deer hunts take place on expensive private land leases and some landowners couldn’t give a damn about the outfitter and clients. On our hunts, we take a small $500 or $1000 deposit to just hold a spot. Once the hunt is a year or so out, we establish a price and contract. If the hunter wants to back out at this point, we give the small deposit back. I haven’t found a better way that is fair for everyone.

 

[Scott CWO]

Some of the guys on these outfitter threads that always take the approach to just cancel and find a different outfitter instead of working things out are being unrealistic and don’t understand contract law. If you’ve signed a contract, it is also binding on YOU, not just the outfitter. Basic contract law is that a contract is a two-way street with “consideration” on both sides or the contract is not a contract. As a client, your consideration is that you get the hunt services and the outfitter’s consideration is your money. Be careful what you sign. You can’t just cancel and expect a refund because the outfitter has saved you a limited opening on his schedule that he may not be able to rebook. African hunts are expensive and the market is small. Hunting is a seasonal business with a year’s worth of income being made in much less than a year for most outfitters. Outfitters also have to pay leases, concession fees, salaries and indirect cost whether you come or not. This feeling that I didn’t come on the hunt so I’m entitled to a 100% refund is not how it works.

Hunters also need to get a contract or at least some type of a written agreement from the outfitter before booking flights and not long after you send the deposit. A big part of the problem I discovered in the other thread about a SA outfitter on this site last week was no contract and also no contract before booking flights. As both a client and an outfitter, I see both sides. My father taught me that a business deal has to be good for both sides or it either won’t last or one side won’t be happy.

 

[Doubleplay]

Not right. Seems like outfitter is trying to take advantage of you.
If the price of things changed for him he should eat the difference and keep a good reputation.
You got the draw the line, it’s not about percentages it’s about principles.
I would never hurt with someone who’s trying to nickel and dime but unfortunately there are people like that.