How concerned should I be?

[Jondnov]

I saw something similar the other day when I was looking at mule deer hunts. The outfitter usually books a couple years out but can’t guarantee the advertised price because his costs might go up. So today the hunt is 8500 when you book and sign contract but by the time the hunt takes place in let’s say 2026 the price could change. I get it to some extent but often as hunters we like to know what exactly we’re getting into and once he has 50percent deposit your kind of in his hands if he ups prices.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Hi all.

Quick question before I'm going camping with my wife for the weekend (just so you know that I'm not ignoring anyone, just no service for 2 days).

I sent my deposit for my buffalo hunt in Mozambique in May. Signed a sheet with stated prices on it, have a quote with the final price on it, and received a verbal quote in February from the PH at a Sportsman’s show all the same number. Anyway, the request came through yesterday for the rest of the hunt price (hunt is in September, plane tickets, clothes, rifle, ammo, etc. all bought) and the request is for an additional $1,200 above the initial agreement.

Now, this hunt is going to be $20k (hunt, travel, air) so $1,200 isn't a giant deal all things considered. My concern is that someone are their end seems to view our agreement as flexible enough to decide to push through some price increases after I paid my deposit and made all of my plans. If, they had stated, government fees had increased, or fuel, or whatever, I don't think I would mind but to increase the price and simply state that they had sent an updated price list (which wasn't a single number but a big pile of garbage that listed trophy fees, and daily rates, and blah, blah, blah) which I didn't even read because I already had a quote and paid my deposit, feels shady.

Is it common for safari companies to just raise prices at the last minute?

Am I a Nervous Nelly or should I just pay the extra $1,200 and forget it?

Thanks all!

I do not understand ethics in this industry. Maybe that is the problem for us this is a passion within a industry.

If you went out to eat and you ordered a $35.00 steak dinner and then you receive a bill of $41.00. You ask the waitress and dhe tells you the price of T-bones and potatoes has gone up since they printed new menus

There is a popular place in RSA that has a menu stating prices to change then they have a big well displayed digital price list. Thats fair

Lon

 

[C.W. Richter]

+6%, and prior to the hunt. What's the Safari Co./PHs name???! That would be helpful to ALL. Based upon who you are dealing with (I hear more of these gripes with respect to Moz,) I suspect they'll agree to the original prices, and then in the end they'll inform you that the price of <Animal B> has gone up $1,200 (for $tarter$!) *I was once in a hunting camp and overheard an HVAC guy chatting w/ the owner about the bill for necessary repairs ($8,000.) He then invoiced the next hunter-$8,000. What a coincidence!!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

A fair contract would offer to return client's deposit if he does not agree to last minute price hike due to "unforeseen cost increases." But I'm betting no one has seen that clause in a safari contract!

I saw something similar the other day when I was looking at mule deer hunts. The outfitter usually books a couple years out but can’t guarantee the advertised price because his costs might go up. So today the hunt is 8500 when you book and sign contract but by the time the hunt takes place in let’s say 2026 the price could change. I get it to some extent but often as hunters we like to know what exactly we’re getting into and once he has 50percent deposit your kind of in his hands if he ups prices.

 

[Jondnov]

A fair contract would offer to return client's deposit if he does not agree to last minute price hike due to "unforeseen cost increases." But I'm betting no one has seen that clause in a safari contract!

It’s straight forward on his website. He is definitely up front about the possibility of additional money that could be owed with rising costs year to year. A few hundred dollars wouldn’t be to big a deal but a couple thousand would be a different story

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Before I arrive, I have latest trophy fee list from website. My operator has never charged anything above that. Often however, he has given me deals on animals for LESS than the published price. A landowner calls him up and needs to get rid of some animals or a specific animal. "Yeah, I've got a guy here who can get it done. What kind of deal can I offer?" I shot four very nice trophies with typically expensive list prices at rates I simply could not refuse without insulting someone. Hint: Go late in the season (end of August or September). Then property managers have to make adjustments. Old bulls need to be taken out that hunters had failed to connect during rest of season. Bulls/rams can only stay on the range so long before they start breeding their progeny. Managers need to remove them so fresh genes can be introduced during the summer. Last year the object was to take out a couple of old waterbuck bulls on two properties. Hunted several days but never saw them. Also we were after a specific cow buff but I never did get a shot. Oh well. Eventually did cull a nice gemsbuck bull and common springbuck ram (owner was switching to black variety). Both were actually difficult hunts. I believe in the end I did pay full price for gemsbuck but no complaints. I may have paid full price for springbuck too but they are cheap anyway. I didn't take many animals so the operator needed the money.

 

[Nyati]

I would tell them I do not accept this, if a contract has been signed, they will have to keep the pricing.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I would tell them I do not accept this, if a contract has been signed, they will have to keep the pricing.

Good luck with that when the contract states “pricing subject to change”. If the OP signed the contract like that his outfitter has him bent over the barrel. He either accepts or walks on his deposit.

A better course of action is a conversation with the outfitter to understand and get an explanation for the price increases. This way the OP can do a little research and understand them and decide is they want to accept them or if they’re entering into a hunt where there’s likely even more unexpected increases on the back end

 

[Rare Breed]

It’s straight forward on his website. He is definitely up front about the possibility of additional money that could be owed with rising costs year to year. A few hundred dollars wouldn’t be to big a deal but a couple thousand would be a different story

I have no problem when an outfitter has to raise costs. As has been noted on this thread they need to have a time period such as 12 months out so a client can save up the difference. My concern is with just 2 months out there is a change of $1200 in costs. to me that is unaccetable

 

[IvW]

Unacceptable I would not pay.....who is it? That could answer a lot of questiins right there.....

 

[crossone]

(I snuck out of camp for a few minutes, wife is painting and I got tired of petting the dog)

Thank you all for the responses. Sorry about being a bit of a windbag here but y'all have been so generous with your responses that I'm going to try to address your questions and points as well as illuminate this a bit better and describe my thoughts about this.

Here are a few answers to your questions:

1. This entire hunt has been decided, bought, and planned since March or April of this year. I appreciate how the time-line is important because these things can go on for 2 or 3-years, in which case a price increase would seem more or less inevitable

2. There was NO mention of the price increase in any communication from the Outfitter. They simply included an addition $1,200 (+7.2%) in the final funding request by making it for $12,700, when I knew it should have been for $11,500. (In my opinion, this seems sneaky and underhanded because I could very well have paid it if I had not been paying attention).

3. My response to their price increase was to ask why in an email (across the world communications are troublesome because of the time differences). Their response was, "We sent you an updated price list last month." As I previously stated, this was nothing like, "Due to additional costs, we have had to increase the final price of your hunt."

No! It was a generic ______ Safaris' Price list for 2024. Which didn't even include the simple 1-number pricing for buffalo, but rather Trophy Fees, Daily Rates for various types of hunts (which most of us know they generally have required minimum numbers of days for certain types of hunts, blah, blah, blah) but I already had my quote and deposit paid, so I assumed (again, I'm assuming American values are the same as South African values but I don't know beans about South African values) that this price list was for my information in case I wanted to add species to my hunt. NOT for MY buffalo hunt, which I was positive I had locked my price in by paying the deposit.

4. There may very well be something in the contract that allows them to increase prices. That doesn't diminish the fact that they sent me a contract, which I signed and sent back to them, that clearly states the agreed upon price, subtracts my deposit, and shows the hunting dates on it for September of this year, 6-weeks from now and the document is only about 8-weeks old.

5. They DID NOT sign my signed contract and send it back to me however, so this is a bit of a blind spot which I probably should have required them to do.

6. The Outfitter sent me a text and said they would call on Monday. I guess I'll listen to their side but, don't see how anything they say can make up for the fact that they decided to trick me or screw me out of some money because they have the leverage to do so.

7. Again, it's not the money, in a day and age where a quote to have a broken 24"×48" window repaired at my house was $6,300, $1,200 is only 3 or 4- weeks grocery bill.

IT IS:

The Deciet

Strong-arming me by allowing me to get $8,000 into this hunt for airfare and deposit before trying to sneak this additional $1,200 on top of the agreed upon price, knowing full well that I'm over a barrel in this endeavor.

The flippant disregard for the amount of trust that we have to have in Outfitters to send thousands of dollars across the world to a continent where our legal protections as foreigners are borderline non-existent.

As I stated in my response to their email in which they stated that they had emailed me an updated hunt price list in June, "I am buying a hunt, but _____ Safaris is selling a promise. Furthermore, I am traveling to one of the most dangerous places on the planet on your (the Outfitter's) promise to keep me safe but yet you are willing to destroy my faith in your integrity by trying to sneak, or strong-arm an additional $1,200 from me."

It's not the money. It's the trust.

I'm not convinced that the trust can be restored.

This is my first trip to Africa and first international hunt (except for caribou in Quebec) so I'm a newby. It's taken me decades to get to a point where I can afford a few trips like this before I tip over.

Having y'all as a sounding board is an absolute blessing. Thank you!

 

[Doug3006]

I’d just ask the outfitter why the increase, and let him know that you assumed you had the terms locked in. Sorry, I posted this before reading your last post.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

(I snuck out of camp for a few minutes, wife is painting and I got tired of petting the dog)

Thank you all for the responses. Sorry about being a bit of a windbag here but y'all have been so generous with your responses that I'm going to try to address your questions and points as well as illuminate this a bit better and describe my thoughts about this.

Here are a few answers to your questions:

1. This entire hunt has been decided, bought, and planned since March or April of this year. I appreciate how the time-line is important because these things can go on for 2 or 3-years, in which case a price increase would seem more or less inevitable

2. There was NO mention of the price increase in any communication from the Outfitter. They simply included an addition $1,200 (+7.2%) in the final funding request by making it for $12,700, when I knew it should have been for $11,500. (In my opinion, this seems sneaky and underhanded because I could very well have paid it if I had not been paying attention).

3. My response to their price increase was to ask why in an email (across the world communications are troublesome because of the time differences). Their response was, "We sent you an updated price list last month." As I previously stated, this was nothing like, "Due to additional costs, we have had to increase the final price of your hunt."

No! It was a generic ______ Safaris' Price list for 2024. Which didn't even include the simple 1-number pricing for buffalo, but rather Trophy Fees, Daily Rates for various types of hunts (which most of us know they generally have required minimum numbers of days for certain types of hunts, blah, blah, blah) but I already had my quote and deposit paid, so I assumed (again, I'm assuming American values are the same as South African values but I don't know beans about South African values) that this price list was for my information in case I wanted to add species to my hunt. NOT for MY buffalo hunt, which I was positive I had locked my price in by paying the deposit.

4. There may very well be something in the contract that allows them to increase prices. That doesn't diminish the fact that they sent me a contract, which I signed and sent back to them, that clearly states the agreed upon price, subtracts my deposit, and shows the hunting dates on it for September of this year, 6-weeks from now and the document is only about 8-weeks old.

5. They DID NOT sign my signed contract and send it back to me however, so this is a bit of a blind spot which I probably should have required them to do.

6. The Outfitter sent me a text and said they would call on Monday. I guess I'll listen to their side but, don't see how anything they say can make up for the fact that they decided to trick me or screw me out of some money because they have the leverage to do so.

7. Again, it's not the money, in a day and age where a quote to have a broken 24"×48" window repaired at my house was $6,300, $1,200 is only 3 or 4- weeks grocery bill.

IT IS:

The Deciet

Strong-arming me by allowing me to get $8,000 into this hunt for airfare and deposit before trying to sneak this additional $1,200 on top of the agreed upon price, knowing full well that I'm over a barrel in this endeavor.

The flippant disregard for the amount of trust that we have to have in Outfitters to send thousands of dollars across the world to a continent where our legal protections as foreigners are borderline non-existent.

As I stated in my response to their email in which they stated that they had emailed me an updated hunt price list in June, "I am buying a hunt, but _____ Safaris is selling a promise. Furthermore, I am traveling to one of the most dangerous places on the planet on your (the Outfitter's) promise to keep me safe but yet you are willing to destroy my faith in your integrity by trying to sneak, or strong-arm an additional $1,200 from me."

It's not the money. It's the trust.

I'm not convinced that the trust can be restored.

This is my first trip to Africa and first international hunt (except for caribou in Quebec) so I'm a newby. It's taken me decades to get to a point where I can afford a few trips like this before I tip over.

Having y'all as a sounding board is an absolute blessing. Thank you!

I'd prepare for their Monday call with a list of questions.

You might want to try shopping a couple of other Moz outfitters quickly and seeing if any can accommodate those dates. Try using that as leverage and letting the outfitter know that since he feels the need to increase prices within about 4 weeks of inking the contract you'd like your deposit back with double the notice.

I'm very curious to know who the outfitter is and what their reputation is for Moz Hunting. Where did you find them and book the hunt? Feel free to send the info via PM if you don't want to publicly disclose until after your call and/or decision on what to do.

 

[Rare Breed]

(I snuck out of camp for a few minutes, wife is painting and I got tired of petting the dog)

Thank you all for the responses. Sorry about being a bit of a windbag here but y'all have been so generous with your responses that I'm going to try to address your questions and points as well as illuminate this a bit better and describe my thoughts about this.

Here are a few answers to your questions:

1. This entire hunt has been decided, bought, and planned since March or April of this year. I appreciate how the time-line is important because these things can go on for 2 or 3-years, in which case a price increase would seem more or less inevitable

2. There was NO mention of the price increase in any communication from the Outfitter. They simply included an addition $1,200 (+7.2%) in the final funding request by making it for $12,700, when I knew it should have been for $11,500. (In my opinion, this seems sneaky and underhanded because I could very well have paid it if I had not been paying attention).

3. My response to their price increase was to ask why in an email (across the world communications are troublesome because of the time differences). Their response was, "We sent you an updated price list last month." As I previously stated, this was nothing like, "Due to additional costs, we have had to increase the final price of your hunt."

No! It was a generic ______ Safaris' Price list for 2024. Which didn't even include the simple 1-number pricing for buffalo, but rather Trophy Fees, Daily Rates for various types of hunts (which most of us know they generally have required minimum numbers of days for certain types of hunts, blah, blah, blah) but I already had my quote and deposit paid, so I assumed (again, I'm assuming American values are the same as South African values but I don't know beans about South African values) that this price list was for my information in case I wanted to add species to my hunt. NOT for MY buffalo hunt, which I was positive I had locked my price in by paying the deposit.

4. There may very well be something in the contract that allows them to increase prices. That doesn't diminish the fact that they sent me a contract, which I signed and sent back to them, that clearly states the agreed upon price, subtracts my deposit, and shows the hunting dates on it for September of this year, 6-weeks from now and the document is only about 8-weeks old.

5. They DID NOT sign my signed contract and send it back to me however, so this is a bit of a blind spot which I probably should have required them to do.

6. The Outfitter sent me a text and said they would call on Monday. I guess I'll listen to their side but, don't see how anything they say can make up for the fact that they decided to trick me or screw me out of some money because they have the leverage to do so.

7. Again, it's not the money, in a day and age where a quote to have a broken 24"×48" window repaired at my house was $6,300, $1,200 is only 3 or 4- weeks grocery bill.

IT IS:

The Deciet

Strong-arming me by allowing me to get $8,000 into this hunt for airfare and deposit before trying to sneak this additional $1,200 on top of the agreed upon price, knowing full well that I'm over a barrel in this endeavor.

The flippant disregard for the amount of trust that we have to have in Outfitters to send thousands of dollars across the world to a continent where our legal protections as foreigners are borderline non-existent.

As I stated in my response to their email in which they stated that they had emailed me an updated hunt price list in June, "I am buying a hunt, but _____ Safaris is selling a promise. Furthermore, I am traveling to one of the most dangerous places on the planet on your (the Outfitter's) promise to keep me safe but yet you are willing to destroy my faith in your integrity by trying to sneak, or strong-arm an additional $1,200 from me."

It's not the money. It's the trust.

I'm not convinced that the trust can be restored.

This is my first trip to Africa and first international hunt (except for caribou in Quebec) so I'm a newby. It's taken me decades to get to a point where I can afford a few trips like this before I tip over.

Having y'all as a sounding board is an absolute blessing. Thank you!

In my opinion we should know that outfitter so we can avoid them in the future or at least hear their side of it.

 

[BnC 04]

In my opinion we should know that outfitter so we can avoid them in the future or at least hear their side of it.

100% agree

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Given the short time frame between making the deal, receiving and signing the contract, and raising the rate, I really don't see why the client should be asking for a "reason" for the sudden increase. Outfitter should have had the price locked in for six months. Businessmen typically budget their quotes for inflation, etc. The fact that no reason or explanation was included in the final price adjustment tells me there really isn't any legitimate reason. It's the old low ball squeeze. Shitty building contractors and car mechanics pull this stunt all the time. Or they try too.

 

[hoytcanon]

It doesn't matter if there are price increases... I am in business, when I make a quote, it is written in stone... if there are increases, I eat the loss, this is part of doing business. If you suspect increases may occur, you increase your quote. However, once an agreement is made, the number is the number. Period.