Hornady DGX

[gizmo]

I havent killed an animal with the dgx yet but i have shot it out of my 416 ruger. it shoots well. i also used a 4x6 foot chunk of 8" pine d-logs screwed and glued together to test bullet preformance. it blew a hole the size of my fist in the logs and i recovered the bullet from the dirt mound behind it. it seemed to have pretty good weight retention (i didnt weigh it). i was pretty impressed. dont know if that'll help but thats the sum of my experience with it. i'm taking it to africa with me for cape buffalo next summer so..... we'll see

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog,

I suppose you are correct with traditional bullets in traditional rifles. I don't have any, nor do I shoot, any traditional rifles unless you want to count my great grandfather's 30-30.

I believe you run into some similar issues with the Woodleigh bullets when pushed too fast and their terminal performance.

I, too, want my first two bullets to go exactly where I expect them to. Bullets 3 thru 4, or 5, just need to be close, because usually by then the gig is up and at that moment a person is trying to just hit the fleeing critter.

However, the OP didn't ask about using DGX bullets in traditional rifles, he simply asked about thoughts or opinions about the bullet itself, which IMHO I believe is a softly constructed bullet along with the other offerings by Hornady.

Hi again Graybird,

Yep, Woodleighs are by reputation soft but the bonding process makes them still a pretty good choice in large caliber doubles, at old time velocities.
Their newer "protected point" seems like it could be a bit tougher but I do not know anyone who has used them yet.
Not sure how they regulate in doubles yet either.

Regarding accuracy/regulation; to each his own but I prefer all my shots, from the first to the last, to shoot mighty straight.
Better a heart shot with the DGX than a gut shot with a you-name-it brand.

Nope, the OP did not ask about traditional rifles but that is all the experience I had to offer him with the specific bullet he was wondering about.
I would not say the DGX is soft (steel jacket over hardened lead alloy) but again, I have only shot two animals with them and only one was thick skinned.
Not much of an exhaustive test series at all.

Sounds like you have more experience on this subject than I do and I totally respect that.
Even so, in my meager experience, I do strongly agree with you that there are several better JSP bullets (A-Frame, North Fork and others) available for Africa, especially DG, (as long as one's rifle will shoot them straight).
A hunter would be silly in the head to use less than the toughest / most appropriate bullet that is also accurate in his rifle, just to prove some imaginary point or perhaps to save a few dollars for hunting thick skinned game.

Cheerio,
Velo Dog.

 

[graybird]

Velo Dog,

We are in 100% agreement. I, too, strive to have my first two shots go exactly where I want them. Anything after that is likely a wing and prayer as you're typically shooting at a fleeing critter.

Make the first couple shots count and the rest is for small talk around the campfire!!!

 

[Velo Dog]

Power is usually fine but accuracy is usually final.

 

[graybird]

Power is usually fine but accuracy is usually final.

To a certain degree. You still must have penetration to the vitals to achieve the ultimate goal, which is why I typically look for the best constructed bullet and gives me the required accuracy to hit the target, which is typically not a Hornady bullet unless I'm looking at varmint or range bullets. I believe the construction of the Hornady bullet line is not as great as other bullet manufacturers.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi again Graybird,

I apologize in advance for the length of this rant.

Seems like whipping this dead horse / Hornady bullet thing might be that we will have to agree to disagree.
But I am laid up after knee surgery and so have time for another poke at it.

You on the one hand are evidently convinced Hornady bullets inspire no more than a yawn and a shrug when you wrote:
"I believe all of Hornady's soft bullets are just that ... Soft!"
Also that: You will only use them - "solely for varmints, putting holes in paper and water jugs".
Am I the only person noticing you've not described any details of your experienced failures with them, much less any photographic documentation, or even having used any Hornady bullet beyond vermin, paper & water jug hunting ?
In keeping with this original thread, what specifically have you shot with the DGX ?
Anything ? Even wet newspaper ?

Conversely, not one of my many personal experiences (guessing I have taken 60 or 70 deer, caribou, swine and African animals combined with the older Hndy RNSP) would have left me with the impression that they are especially soft, at least not with the relatively tame velocities at which I use them.

Likewise, the DGX seemed to work perfectly in the two rather tough African animals I shot with them.
It seems a bit tougher than their older design RNSP but, I would suggest that they stop tapering the jacket thinner near the nose and stop cutting stress slits there as well.
Or perhaps not cut them as far down onto the ogive.

In Hornady's spire point design, anything from about 6.5 upward look as if they are not overly soft either.
Indeed, of the N. Am. animals I have sacked with various caliber spire points, they have consistently kept my freezer full, no complaints (but so have other brands of dreaded "cup & core" bullets).

As stated before, I do agree with you that there are tougher/premium bullets on the market these days.
Also as stated before, I will use them in my rifles that shoot them straight for any especially tough animals I intend to hunt, (that do not require all solids of course) .

But my Pre-War .450 No2 Nitro double regulated with the 480 gr DGX & DGS so well that the DGX was the expanding bullet I was stuck with and unlike yourself, I require that not just my first two shots but that, ALL my shots must be accurate.
The wing and the prayer concept is just not my thing.

Be all of that as it may, I repeat myself in saying I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
I'm glad that we've been discussing this subject.
Hunting rifles, calibers, projectiles, optics, boots and related things are interesting for me.

My best regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[graybird]

Velo Dog,

I have no problem agreeing to disagree, which is what you and I will likely end up doing on this topic. No harm, no fowl, IMHO.

If you'll notice, there are other members of this forum who have also stated that they are not impressed with the DGX, which according to my count is six, not including me, and one was the original poster of this thread.

Granted, I haven't taken as many big game animals as you have with Hornady bullets for the simple reason I'm not impressed with their performance, which you shouldn't be shocked by. I have taken 9 that immediately come to mind, with them being either whitetails or antelope, not counting the countless number of prairie dogs that have been taken with the V-Max mainly out of three calibers, 17 HMR, 204 Ruger and 22-250. Of the above number of game animals, I've shot them with the SST, InterBond and DGX.

I'll send you pictures of a whitetail I shot with my 375 H&H with the DGX. Messy doesn't describe the entrance wound.

I'll give you my experiences with the SST. A few years back a young antelope buck was perfectly broadside at roughly 125 yards. Rifle being used was a 243 Win and the 95 gr SST. The first shot the buck simply humped up. Second shot was about an inch away from the first shot right in the sweet spot of the lungs. The buck took about 3 steps and fell over. Surprisingly neither bullet exited. Instead they had imploded like a hand grenade inside the animal. While skinning, the base of one bullet was found in between the skin and flank of the antelope. This means the bullets had made a 45+ degree turn at some point to wind up in its final resting place. If my memory serves me correctly, the final weight of this piece of the bullets was 22-23 grains. Hardly impressive on such a thin skinned animal.

I just returned from a 14 day hunt in South Africa last Sunday. A member of my party brought his 243 Win. Upon arrival, he had mistakenly packed 55 grain varmint bullets, which required him to see what he could find in Cape Town. He was able to locate some 95 gr SST bullets. One wounded impala was shot in the neck with said bullets at about 100 yards. The bullet was found against the hide of the opposite side, and it had separated from it's core. Fast forward a couple days, and we were out culling impala rams. The same rifle bullet combination was used on a ram at roughly 40 yards. At the shot, the PH saw the bullet impact squarely on the shoulder of the impala; therefore, my buddy was instructed to look for another animal as we were culling. The PH emphatically expected the ram to be just a few yards from the impact, saw the ram take the bullet, which he did a little spin and slunk off into the bush. No other shots were fired. Yet, 11 guys and 3 dogs later, still not impala found or even a speck of blood.

I've taken a handful of whitetails with the 139 gr Interlock out of my 7mm-08. The last of which was a very nice buck at about 60-65 yards thru some thick trees. The first shot was an almost broadside shot, very slightly quartering away. I found the entrance and exit wounds as to be expected. However, when skinning the deer, there were three additional wounds in front of the shoulder in the next in a perfect line. After inspection and discussion with my hunting partner of the day, we both concluded that the bullet had come apart and the three additional wounds were from "shrapnel" of the bullet. This was the last deer I shot with these bullets.

I'm in 100% agreement that these bullets are extremely accurate, but IMHO, they are too fragile and come apart to easily. Maybe that is the difference between your experience and mine. My experiences are from high velocity calibers while yours is from slower velocities.

As promised, I'll send you a few pictures of my experience with a DGX detonation.

P.S. I decided to take a picture of my "Hornady drawer". There are bullets from 20 caliber up to 416 stashed in here.

All the best,

 

[enysse]

I respect graybird's view. I have never shied away from using SST and Interbonds. I love that they explode on my double lung shot. There is no blood trail! It is not necessary, I have never seen a elk to antelope make it most times 100 yards. With no lungs, you have no breathing...game over. I never aim for the high shoulder shot!! It's a double lung or nothing.

 

[graybird]

enysse,

I think you pointed out exactly my issue with these bullets. What happens if it isn't "a double lung or nothing"?

What happens if the shoulder is hit, or too far back? Then, what do you expect of these bullets?

 

[enysse]

If you hit the shoulder you are screwed, jack another round in and make a better shot. There is no margin for error. My brother has used my gun and has shot them in the guts and he swears they flatten the animal still. I'm sure he hit a major artery.

I'm like you graybird, I recommend the TSX or TTSX or Swift A Frame.

I have a sniper mentality, one shot one kill.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo Dog,

I have no problem agreeing to disagree, which is what you and I will likely end up doing on this topic. No harm, no fowl, IMHO.

If you'll notice, there are other members of this forum who have also stated that they are not impressed with the DGX, which according to my count is six, not including me, and one was the original poster of this thread.

Granted, I haven't taken as many big game animals as you have with Hornady bullets for the simple reason I'm not impressed with their performance, which you shouldn't be shocked by. I have taken 9 that immediately come to mind, with them being either whitetails or antelope, not counting the countless number of prairie dogs that have been taken with the V-Max mainly out of three calibers, 17 HMR, 204 Ruger and 22-250. Of the above number of game animals, I've shot them with the SST, InterBond and DGX.

I'll send you pictures of a whitetail I shot with my 375 H&H with the DGX. Messy doesn't describe the entrance wound.

I'll give you my experiences with the SST. A few years back a young antelope buck was perfectly broadside at roughly 125 yards. Rifle being used was a 243 Win and the 95 gr SST. The first shot the buck simply humped up. Second shot was about an inch away from the first shot right in the sweet spot of the lungs. The buck took about 3 steps and fell over. Surprisingly neither bullet exited. Instead they had imploded like a hand grenade inside the animal. While skinning, the base of one bullet was found in between the skin and flank of the antelope. This means the bullets had made a 45+ degree turn at some point to wind up in its final resting place. If my memory serves me correctly, the final weight of this piece of the bullets was 22-23 grains. Hardly impressive on such a thin skinned animal.

I just returned from a 14 day hunt in South Africa last Sunday. A member of my party brought his 243 Win. Upon arrival, he had mistakenly packed 55 grain varmint bullets, which required him to see what he could find in Cape Town. He was able to locate some 95 gr SST bullets. One wounded impala was shot in the neck with said bullets at about 100 yards. The bullet was found against the hide of the opposite side, and it had separated from it's core. Fast forward a couple days, and we were out culling impala rams. The same rifle bullet combination was used on a ram at roughly 40 yards. At the shot, the PH saw the bullet impact squarely on the shoulder of the impala; therefore, my buddy was instructed to look for another animal as we were culling. The PH emphatically expected the ram to be just a few yards from the impact, saw the ram take the bullet, which he did a little spin and slunk off into the bush. No other shots were fired. Yet, 11 guys and 3 dogs later, still not impala found or even a speck of blood.

I've taken a handful of whitetails with the 139 gr Interlock out of my 7mm-08. The last of which was a very nice buck at about 60-65 yards thru some thick trees. The first shot was an almost broadside shot, very slightly quartering away. I found the entrance and exit wounds as to be expected. However, when skinning the deer, there were three additional wounds in front of the shoulder in the next in a perfect line. After inspection and discussion with my hunting partner of the day, we both concluded that the bullet had come apart and the three additional wounds were from "shrapnel" of the bullet. This was the last deer I shot with these bullets.

I'm in 100% agreement that these bullets are extremely accurate, but IMHO, they are too fragile and come apart to easily. Maybe that is the difference between your experience and mine. My experiences are from high velocity calibers while yours is from slower velocities.

As promised, I'll send you a few pictures of my experience with a DGX detonation.

P.S. I decided to take a picture of my "Hornady drawer". There are bullets from 20 caliber up to 416 stashed in here.

All the best,

Hi again Graybird, Enysse and others,

I don't own a .17, or a .204, or a .22-250 or a .243 for the exact reasons you described.
Anybody who brings a .243 to Africa, will get no sympathy from me.
I'm not familiar enough with SST bullets to be sure exactly what they are intended for.
Nobody I know personally has tried them.

Again, my experiences with Hornady bullets have been primarily in their heaviest weights of RNSP for whatever caliber I am using.
My secondary experiences with Hornady bullets have been with their old spire point design (experience with other mainstream brands, in spitzer, semi-spitzer and round nose configurations as well).
No Hornady RNSP or spire point has failed me in all these many long years.
But I repeat that I do not hunt large animals with small caliber rifles, I just don't do that.

My only experience with the steel jacketed DGX is a zebra and a buffalo but both times the DGX worked very well.
I nonetheless believe there are tougher soft nose or expanding bullets out there, without a doubt there are.

Yes, I am fully aware that others have said they don't care for the DGX bullet and some have documented their specific failures with them.
I do not know exactly how many people like me there are that have shot only a couple animals with them and been perfectly satisfied with the results but, I expect that as time goes along, there will be others posting on this subject, good, bad or indifferent results.
The DGX is a relatively newer product, in the big picture.

Graybird, in your PM to me today, you posted a photo of a doe deer hit with a .375 DGX / 300 gr @ about 2350 fps and it is a mess for sure, no argument from me on that whatsoever.
From it I am both quite surprised (low velocity / heavy bullet / steel jacket / hardened lead alloy core, but I am also enlightened by it.
I learn something new every day, whether I want to or not.
As I said in my PM back to you, I will surely keep that photo in mind when working on loads for my next safari and think twice about that type of bullet.

Conversely, my limited experiences with Barnes monometal expanding bullets was that they were not accurate at all in the one rifle I tried them in.
Likewise, the copper fowling was horrid.
Someday, I might (or might not) try them again, just to see if they have fixed any of those two issues.
However, it will not be soon because I have a basic distrust of hollow point bullets that goes way back.
To further muddy that water, I have spoken with more than one or two PHs that prefer clients not bring any sort of hollow point bullets, including Barnes TSX and similar designs, due to failures to expand, often enough to be called a pattern.

One in particular, Hannes Swanepoel, describes such failures as very predictable when the hollow point or hollow point with a plastic tip in it, strikes a muddy animal at anything except a flat/square angle.
The tip then bends over slightly (as shown in Bushstalker's photos on this very subject) and you end up with a military spitzer FMJ type wound.

Whew.
So, I guess aside from me deciding to think twice about using the DGX, when working up loads for Africa, (at least in the .375, approaching 2350 fps), hopefully we have accomplished thoroughly confusing anyone who is new to handloading.

My best regards amigo,
Velo Dog.

 

[enysse]

I think it was a mistake for Hornady to cancel the the RNSP line but the general media has decided that bullet is obsolete.
I think you are right to use enough gun, I like my low recoil deer rifles with great accuracy. It works for me.

 

[Velo Dog]

I think it was a mistake for Hornady to cancel the the RNSP line but the general media has decided that bullet is obsolete.
I think you are right to use enough gun, I like my low recoil deer rifles with great accuracy. It works for me.

Bloody shame that, bloody shame.
Everybody wants to go fast these days, the faster the better evidently.
Guess I'm just a dinosaur.
Whatever.

 

[matt85]

this thread has proved very interesting to read!

i too am very upset they discontinued the RNSP line in my favorite small calibers (7mm and 6.5mm)! while i do not believe the DGX is suitable for thick skinned game, i do believe the Hornady RNSP is a great hunting bullet for small and medium game. my choice deer load for my Winchester M70 in 7x57 was a Hornady 175gr RNSP over 48.5gr of IMR 7828 (do not use in surplus guns). i cant remember what the velocity was but it was incredibly accurate (0.5" at 100 yards) and hit deer like a freight train.

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

this thread has proved very interesting to read!

i too am very upset they discontinued the RNSP line in my favorite small calibers (7mm and 6.5mm)! while i do not believe the DGX is suitable for thick skinned game, i do believe the Hornady RNSP is a great hunting bullet for small and medium game. my choice deer load for my Winchester M70 in 7x57 was a Hornady 175gr RNSP over 48.5gr of IMR 7828 (do not use in surplus guns). i cant remember what the velocity was but it was incredibly accurate (0.5" at 100 yards) and hit deer like a freight train.

-matt

Yup, I too have found their round nose series of bullets to be consistently quite accurate.
Plus they just seem to hit harder and track straighter through flesh and bone than pointy bullets do sometimes.

The thing that people who have not used them, often misunderstand is that out to about 250 or 300 yds, in any typical bottle neck cartridge (.30-06, etc), they shoot pretty much about as flat as a spitzer of the same weight at the same velocity.

Another thing I prefer about them is that I can hear the impact very loud and clear (known as the "koogleslage" or however you spell it).

That sound is somehow very gratifying to my ears, in my way of thinking.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

I agree both with the ones liking the Hornady bullets and the ones that don't
I often find the Hornady bullets to be very accurate, but soft.
I most of the time find the same when it comes to the Sierra bullets.

If I reload for one of my faster cartridges(like my 6.5-06) I only use Hornady and Sierra bullets when I want a grenade effect or for target practice.
For normal hunting with my 6.5-06, I prefer bullets from Barnes and Swift.

For normal hunting at shorter ranges with slower cartridges, I often like as Velo Dog does, round nosed heavy for the cartridge cup and core bullets.
For how it is now, it is not many Hornady bullets I would use for hunting medium and big sized game.

I don't know why Hornady has temporarily suspended the production of their 160 gr RN Interlock for .264.
But I see that they have done so for many of their bullets.

For now I prefer to use the Lapua Mega bullets when I want heavier bullets at moderate speeds in the cartridges they make the bullet for(.264, .308 and .366(9.3)).
Norma Oryx is also a good option.
Specially the 325 grain Norma Oryx is outstanding for the 9.3x62 for shots inside 150 meters.

 

[enysse]

I bought some Lapua Mega bullets for my 9.3x62 but have no time to reload them. I think they will be awesome!

 

[Velo Dog]

I agree both with the ones liking the Hornady bullets and the ones that don't
I often find the Hornady bullets to be very accurate, but soft.
I most of the time find the same when it comes to the Sierra bullets.

If I reload for one of my faster cartridges(like my 6.5-06) I only use Hornady and Sierra bullets when I want a grenade effect or for target practice.
For normal hunting with my 6.5-06, I prefer bullets from Barnes and Swift.

For normal hunting at shorter ranges with slower cartridges, I often like as Velo Dog does, round nosed heavy for the cartridge cup and core bullets.
For how it is now, it is not many Hornady bullets I would use for hunting medium and big sized game.

I don't know why Hornady has temporarily suspended the production of their 160 gr RN Interlock for .264.
But I see that they have done so for many of their bullets.

For now I prefer to use the Lapua Mega bullets when I want heavier bullets at moderate speeds in the cartridges they make the bullet for(.264, .308 and .366(9.3)).
Norma Oryx is also a good option.
Specially the 325 grain Norma Oryx is outstanding for the 9.3x62 for shots inside 150 meters.

Hello again Norwegianwoods,

Generally speaking I agree with you on most of the above ideas.
Likewise, the 6.5-06 seems like a good enough cartridge that I find it strange somebody like Norma, or Sako or Remington, Ruger, Winchester, etc., etc., has not standardized it way back in the 1930s, 40s or 50s at least (I think Ruger began making pistols in the 1950s and center fire rifles somewhat later/1960s ?).
And I am with you on not using soft bullets in such a high velocity/small bore cartridge unless I wanted explosive tissue damage and lowered ricochet potential (pest control on cattle ranches/farms).

My favorite fragile soft point for hunting ground squirrels and other vermin, up to/including coyotes ... back when I owned small fast calibers for such hunting ... was the Sierra flat base spitzer.
Although, in the small fast calibers I favored back then for varminting, the Hornady spire point was also plenty soft as well.
As you get up around 6.5 or 7mm somewhere in there, it seemed like the bullets from Hornady became a bit tougher built than the .257, 6mm and .224 diameter ones.
But I agree that in a 6.5-06, the Hornady seems like it'd be mighty soft at those speeds.

I read somewhere that lead cores actually can soften a lot in small fast calibers to slightly if any, in large slow calibers, with the heat of friction from being forced through the tight fitting steel riflings (also burning powder under the jacket base, like a cooking pot used to melt hard butter).
It is not very noticeable - the larger the caliber and the heavier the bullet, combined with lower velocity.
But, the smaller the bullet diameter and the less it weighs, the more profound the affect on a bullet that this friction and heat imparts.

I have driven light for caliber .224 diameter Sierra bullets so fast from a .220 Swift that they flew apart before reaching the target, leaving a blue/gray vapor trail in their wake.
Presumably, I was boiling the lead core right out of them.

Somewhere in between that extreme and light for caliber bullets that actually hold together long enough to impact animals at very high speed, is possibly one answer to the soft bullet riddle.

Regarding Hornady round nose bullets, I do wish they were not slowing production or stopping it or whatever.
But I do understand that they cannot make money from only a few old fashioned guys, while the new generation of shooters mostly want to go faster and faster.
Furthermore, perhaps Woodleigh has beat them up pretty good with their line of bonded core/round nose bullets.
Competition is a good thing in the market place but I find the Woodleighs more expensive to practice with, and I do a lot of practice (live about 3km from a rifle range).

The times they are a-changin' I guess.

Best Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[matt85]

i just scored three boxes of .416 400gr Hornady RN bullets (two boxes SP and one box FMJ) off of gunbroker for $112 shipped.

ill probably use these for practice and goofing around with but if i get the RNSP to shoot well then i might use em for black bear next month.

-matt

 

[Velo Dog]

i just scored three boxes of .416 400gr Hornady RN bullets (two boxes SP and one box FMJ) off of gunbroker for $112 shipped.

ill probably use these for practice and goofing around with but if i get the RNSP to shoot well then i might use em for black bear next month.

-matt

Hi Matt85,

I will wait with baited breath to read whether or not these .416 / 400 gr bullets will be adequate for black bear or just bounce off.

Looking forward to your results some day,
Velo Dog.