Hornady DGX

[colorado]

I think you can't go wrong with an A-Frame for a non-monolithic expanding bullet. I shoot 300g A-Frames in my 375 Weatherby and have zero complaints. I do shoot the 570g TSX in my 500 Jeffery because it's so damn accurate and feeds so smoothly. So I have no issues with monolithics as long as I'm confident they'll expand. The 570g TSX has proven to expand well on thin skinned non-dangerous game (it was designed for the 500 NE so at 500 Jeffery speeds it probably is expanding a bit better). I haven't had the chance to shoot it at anything dangerous yet, just a 450lb feral hog and a cow elk, soon I hope ...

This 300g Swift A-Frame hit my brown bear at 13 yards, a front quartering shot, broke the right shoulder, tore through both lungs, went through his left rear thigh and ended up in the hide after penetrating the entire bear diagonally. I hear they work very well on buffalo too.

 

[matt85]

ive never had any duds with Hornady ammunition but I have found their 450-400 NE 3" cartridges to be inconsistent. ill have 6 cartridges in a box regulate in my double while the rest of the box will not. ive only bought 4 boxes so maybe I had bad ones but they weren't all from the same source.

any word on pictures of the DGX bullets used to take the buffalo and zebra?

as for barnes and swift being outstanding... I couldn't agree more. I think northfork bullets are more expensive then they should be. a northfork soft isn't going to do anything a TSX or A-frame cant do for a lot less money.

thanks for posting all
-matt

 

[buckcurtin]

Buckcurtin,

Did you have 2 duds with Norma factory cartridges or with Hornady factory cartridges?
I think you are referring to the Norma but not sure since, you mention shooting through more than one animal with the Hornady ammunition as well.
It seems like you are referring to your personal dud experiences with Norma, and your PH's experiences with Hornady bullets over-penetrating but, I am confused.

Sorry, sometimes I do not understand everything that's in front of my nose.
It is my flaw, not anyone else's.

Cheerio,
Velo Dog.

Sorry for delay. Duds were the Norma ammo. I was asked to use the Norma by my PH because they had a problem with thru and thru shots hitting other animals. Never had a misfire with the Hornady and would hunt with it the next time.

 

[CAustin]

Buckcurtin,
I too will use the Hornady ammo again on the next hunt. It put the animals down just like it was supposed to do. Like I mentioned before my PH was using Hornady ammo in his 458 to back me up on the lioness and Cape buffalo . He must have confidence in the ammo!
Charlie

 

[Velo Dog]

Sorry for delay. Duds were the Norma ammo. I was asked to use the Norma by my PH because they had a problem with thru and thru shots hitting other animals. Never had a misfire with the Hornady and would hunt with it the next time.

rogerthat and thanks.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo dog, could you post a picture of the bullet you pulled from the buffalo's neck?

thanks
-matt

Hello again matt85,

Sorry for the delay on these photos.
I had to shame my wife into posting them for me as I am computer illiterate.
Shown Left to Right are the 480 grain DGX from the zebra.
Next, from the buffalo.
Next an unfired DGX 480 gr projectile and in one photo I put a home-rolled dummy round .450 No2 but it is with an old Hornady 500 gr RNSP.
In one or more photo, the same bullets are shown from their other sides.

Likewise, I have included photos of the buffalo and zebra described in my post(s) about the bullet performance (different photo but the same buffalo as in my avatar).
The rifle shown is my old Army & Navy .450 No2 NE 3.5" hammer gun.
It has 28" barrels and I think it was made by Manton because I once saw an otherwise absolutely identical one, except for the caliber (it was a .470 NE) and maker's name was J. Manton, Calcutta or perhaps London/Calcutta or something to that affect.
Mine says Army & Navy Cooperative Society, London England or similar words.
Mine regulated best at about 2050 fps from the long 28" barrels, leading me to suspect older Kynoch and Ely Bros ammunition advertisements might have been exaggerations of actual muzzle velocities (they claimed 2175 fps for my caliber with 480 grainers).

At any rate, I am real sure that the DGX has a lower velocity threshold than such as the A-Frame, Bear Claw, North Fork and similar premium/bonded core soft nose bullets.
Hopefully I have added to the chaos, LOL.

Well, that's about it for now I guess.
Best Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[matt85]

excellent photos! that rifle is stunning, im very jealous!

I few comments on what you've written:

-you say it regulates at 2050 rather then the originally posted 2175. not saying your incorrect in your logic but have you considered that might be due to using a different bullet the originally used? the Hornady DGX has a substantially longer bearing surface then traditional bullets and in fact is almost identical to the swift A-frame for bearing surface. if you haven't already, you should try the Woodleigh 480gr SP bullet as its very similar to the older style bullets.

-another thing ive found is the DGX bullet is actually a great deal tougher then the Swift A-frame. by that I mean the jacket is tougher and the DGX uses a harder lead allow. the swift A-frame to my knowledge uses a pure (or close to pure) copper jacket and a relatively soft core. the reason the A-frame holds together is because its both bonded and dual core. so in theory, the A-frame should expand easier at lower velocities due to it being made of softer materials.

-from looking at the pictures id say the left bullet performed quite well and seems to have held together. the bullet on the right seems to have lost the front portion of the bullet however retaining the rear which would still make it somewhat effective. that's actually better performance then I figured these bullets would give!

thanks for the pictures!
-matt

 

[PaulT]

Matt, the often quoted traditional regulation velocity for a lot of the N.E cartridges was, as you quote, 2150fps, but this "standard" was, in a lot of calibers, original achieved in 28" barrels that was the norm of the day.

Great if you have a vintage English double.

Most modern doubles come in 26", 24" and sometimes 22" barrels unless otherwise requested by the purchaser.

Two friends of mine tested almost all available factory loaded .500 N.E cartridges, including some old Kynoch ammo, and nothing tested went over 2050fps (tested in a 26" V.C), most of the ammo was below 2000fps.

 

[Velo Dog]

excellent photos! that rifle is stunning, im very jealous!

I few comments on what you've written:

-you say it regulates at 2050 rather then the originally posted 2175. not saying your incorrect in your logic but have you considered that might be due to using a different bullet the originally used? the Hornady DGX has a substantially longer bearing surface then traditional bullets and in fact is almost identical to the swift A-frame for bearing surface. if you haven't already, you should try the Woodleigh 480gr SP bullet as its very similar to the older style bullets.

-another thing ive found is the DGX bullet is actually a great deal tougher then the Swift A-frame. by that I mean the jacket is tougher and the DGX uses a harder lead allow. the swift A-frame to my knowledge uses a pure (or close to pure) copper jacket and a relatively soft core. the reason the A-frame holds together is because its both bonded and dual core. so in theory, the A-frame should expand easier at lower velocities due to it being made of softer materials.

-from looking at the pictures id say the left bullet performed quite well and seems to have held together. the bullet on the right seems to have lost the front portion of the bullet however retaining the rear which would still make it somewhat effective. that's actually better performance then I figured these bullets would give!

thanks for the pictures!
-matt

Thanks Matt85,

When I said "velocity threshold", I was referring to enough velocity for a given bullet to fail due to breakup on impact with a stoutly built animal.
Again, I would think the A-Frame and others would be able to stand more abuse than the DGX.
But at a bit over 2 thousand fps, it is a pointless point, at least in the case of one zebra and one buffalo.
I should have been more clear on "velocity threshold".

Yes, I had tried the Woodleigh 480 gr at various velocities (softs and solid both) in the old rifle.
Also, I had tried 500 gr Woodleighs, Remington, Winchester and some custom ones (but the custom 500 grainers were only RNSP, not solids) that I had bought at a Minnesota Gun Show once as well.
I've never fired monolithic bullets of any sort in the old smasher because there is some debate that they might cause damage to antique double rifles.
Such rifles are just too expensive to take the chance.

I wonder if the buffalo tore off more of the bullet than the zebra did, as it was possibly already mushroomed before it scraped the buffalo's neck bone during it's path.
And the zebra shoulder being hit squarely, smashing through the bone was less stressful on that bullet because it did not pass through enough tissue before hitting said shoulder bone, to be yet mushroomed very much, if at all.
In other words, perhaps there was no mushroom flange to tear off until it actually broke through the bone.
Who knows/

Well anyway, nice talking to you.
Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[Velo Dog]

Matt, the often quoted traditional regulation velocity for a lot of the N.E cartridges was, as you quote, 2150fps, but this "standard" was, in a lot of calibers, original achieved in 28" barrels that was the norm of the day.

Great if you have a vintage English double.

Most modern doubles come in 26", 24" and sometimes 22" barrels unless otherwise requested by the purchaser.

Two friends of mine tested almost all available factory loaded .500 N.E cartridges, including some old Kynoch ammo, and nothing tested went over 2050fps (tested in a 26" V.C), most of the ammo was below 2000fps.

PaulT,

That seems to support what I have suspected for several years now.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[PaulT]

Velo,

brand new, factory shiny Hornady chronographs at an average of 1950fps from the short barrels on my .500

this is probably not a bad thing considering how I have seen the D.G.X behave when moderate velocity is applied.

notwithstanding, I only use this ammo on the odd feral horse, a sick buff, or two and the odd feral cattle beast collected for meat. for these jobs they are adequate.

 

[colorado]

For those of us who handload, I see no point in shooting the DGX, when I can shoot A-Frames for 50 cents more per round. For folks who don't handload, factory big bore ammunition is hard to come by once you get over 416. For those who don't have the time or inclination to handload, I just wish Hornady would come out with a better bonded bullet or just load A-Frames, Woodleighs or Partitions in their cartridges.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo,

brand new, factory shiny Hornady chronographs at an average of 1950fps from the short barrels on my .500

this is probably not a bad thing considering how I have seen the D.G.X behave when moderate velocity is applied.

notwithstanding, I only use this ammo on the odd feral horse, a sick buff, or two and the odd feral cattle beast collected for meat. for these jobs they are adequate.

PaulT,

Do you have any photos or at least descriptions of how they failed?
I would be quite surprised if any .50 caliber / 570 gr bullet should fail to penetrate even the largest bovine, especially at about 1950 fps near the muzzle.
Seems like a 570 grain, .510 - .511 diameter RNSP going around 1950 fps or less at impact would bash any bovine on earth (provided a proper hit), even if the bullet was made of bubble gum and decent jacket material, in this case guilding metal plated over soft steel.
Some other type of failure, such as failure to expand/mushroom perhaps?
This all just goes to show that I am still learning.

Cheers Mate,
Velo Dog.

PS:
How short are your .500 barrels?

 

[PaulT]

Velo,

the failures I had with the Hornady DGX were in my Lott, not the double.

The failures were a mixture of bullets that had come apart dramatically.
They stopped, and or killed, the game I was shooting,
but some did not penetrate and some veered course after striking heavy bone on an angle.

In the more moderate velocity calibers they may be fine, but personally after having shot 7 factory boxes over four seasons in .458 Lott on buffalo and feral cattle I would not hedge an important/overseas/expensive hunt, valuable trophy on the DGX.

Yes, I had these, and hundreds more of all types of makes and calibers, stored in a steel box in my off-season storage container that was lost in a bush fire two seasons ago.

The barrels on my .500 are 23.5 when measured to the breach-face.

 

[Velo Dog]

Velo,

the failures I had with the Hornady DGX were in my Lott, not the double.

The failures were a mixture of bullets that had come apart dramatically.
They stopped, and or killed, the game I was shooting,
but some did not penetrate and some veered course after striking heavy bone on an angle.

In the more moderate velocity calibers they may be fine, but personally after having shot 7 factory boxes over four seasons in .458 Lott on buffalo and feral cattle I would not hedge an important/overseas/expensive hunt, valuable trophy on the DGX.

Yes, I had these, and hundreds more of all types of makes and calibers, stored in a steel box in my off-season storage container that was lost in a bush fire two seasons ago.

The barrels on my .500 are 23.5 when measured to the breach-face.

PaulT,

Yep, I expect the Lott factory velocity (2300 fps?) might be too much for the DGX.
I have a Lott as well but confess to generally loading it to .450 NE ballistics.
Also, I have not faced anything more dangerous than a paper bulls-eye and the 0ccaisional aluminum can.

Again, I used the DGS/DGX for buffalo because they regulated best in my old double rifle, not because I thought they were the toughest of the tough.
Hornady should stop making the DGX with the jacket material thinner near the nose and stop putting stress slits there as well.
If I ever bring my Lott for DG, I hope to get it shooting straight with A-Frames but I have not tried them in it yet.
So far, I have just been plinking and plunking with it at the range and around my cabin in the bush (Alaska) with my substantial supply of Hndy, Rem, Win, Woodleigh 500 and 480 gr bullets.

Your .500 NE barrels are about standard length for that caliber these days and I know I am the oddball to prefer 26" barrels on double rifles (grouse/quail guns as well).

I weep bitter tears for your ammunition loss.
Here in the USA, our Gov't (Socialist Agenda) is busy pouring brass, lead, generally all metals into China as fast as they can load the ships.
Now, we cannot even find .22 rim fire, much less NE type ammunition/components in sporting goods stores any more.
Sadly, the average man here is too busy watching baseball, hopscotch, etc., to even notice.
American men are drinking the government sponsored koolaid and getting groggy.

Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[Foxi]

im interesting in hearing what the people on this forum think of this bullet.
-what are your thoughts?
-have you tried it on thick skinned game?
-does any one have pictures of DGX bullets retrieved from thick skinned game?

for the sake of this thread I will hold back my own feelings on using standard cup and core bullets on dangerous game until ive given a chance for people to give their opinion.

thanks
-matt

Hello Matt,
here you have a picture from a .375 HH Hornady DGX 300gr .
Left one is it- 70% Restweight.
The buffalo on my AvatarPic I shot on 100 yards distance, front on his throat.
The bullet was going through and was found in the stomach.
The other one, the safetyshot on his shoulder, we didn't found (?).
My PH prefer Federal bullets,softnose and solids,Federal.

Right bullet is from a Grizzly..300 Win mag. RWS UNI Classic 180gr. Restweight 85%

In August I will do

another trip to Africa, and I will take the DGX also and then I tell you.
@Velo Dog ,a wonderful double rifle !!!!
To bad,that they can't tell us their livestory.

Foxi

 

[Velo Dog]

Hello Matt,
here you have a picture from a .375 HH Hornady DGX 300gr .
Left one is it- 70% Restweight.
The buffalo on my AvatarPic I shot on 100 yards distance, front on his throat.
The bullet was going through and was found in the stomach.
The other one, the safetyshot on his shoulder, we didn't found (?).
My PH prefer Federal bullets,softnose and solids,Federal.

Right bullet is from a Grizzly..300 Win mag. RWS UNI Classic 180gr. Restweight 85%

In August I will doView attachment 28509 another trip to Africa, and I will take the DGX also and then I tell you.
@Velo Dog ,a wonderful double rifle !!!!
To bad,that they can't tell us their livestory.

Foxi

Foxi,

Thanks for the compliment on the .450 No2 NE hammergun.

I do like the looks of traditional rifles and shotguns.

Best Regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[graybird]

In my opinion, I believe all of Hornady's soft bullets are just that ... Soft! I do shoot quite a few Hornady bullets, but they are used solely for varmints or putting holes in paper or water jugs.

In line with Phoenix Phil, why take a chance when there are bullets whose construction results in better chance of doing the job correctly the first time.

I, for one, will not sacrifice a few dollars when it comes to terminal bullet performance.

 

[Velo Dog]

In my opinion, I believe all of Hornady's soft bullets are just that ... Soft! I do shoot quite a few Hornady bullets, but they are used solely for varmints or putting holes in paper or water jugs.

In line with Phoenix Phil, why take a chance when there are bullets whose construction results in better chance of doing the job correctly the first time.

I, for one, will not sacrifice a few dollars when it comes to terminal bullet performance.

Hi Graybird,

Totally in agreement with you, and others here that, one should never try to save a few dollars on bullets (or boots or optics) intended for an African hunt, especially DG but, in general, I'd say the same for PG as well.
To save $75. on bullets, only to earn the disgust of your PH because your wounded buffalo had to be sorted out or your $2,000. eland was never recovered, is the wisdom of a fool.

It's all the more important if one decides to use some super high velocity cartridge.
Old fashioned bullets most often fail when driven too fast for their old fashioned construction.

Premium bullets for tough animals are the way to go.....as long as they are accurate in one's rifle.

However, many doubles simply will not regulate with anything except old fashioned "cup & core" type bullets.
Once in awhile a bolt action or single shot proves that it will split hairs with old fashioned bullets but, throws premium bullets all over the paper, as if into a shotgun pattern.

Isn't it wise to use a bullet that you are confident will hit where you are aiming?

It might have been Jack O'Connor who said "At what point during the animal's death did your bullet fail?"
The accuracy/regulation factor combined with Ruark's famous comment "Use Enough Gun" has kept my stew pot boiling since the 1960s, with Hornady round nose and spire point, Sierra flat base spitzer, Remington Core-Lokt and Speer "Hot Core" bullets.

My next trip to Africa will have me trying various premium bullets in whatever rifle I settle on.
But, if they do not shoot straight, it's likely Hornady bullets will go along again (5th Safari) and will put whatever I shoot, on the ground right quick.
They have so far.

Kind regards,
Velo Dog.

 

[graybird]

Velo Dog,

I suppose you are correct with traditional bullets in traditional rifles. I don't have any, nor do I shoot, any traditional rifles unless you want to count my great grandfather's 30-30.

I believe you run into some similar issues with the Woodleigh bullets when pushed too fast and their terminal performance.

I, too, want my first two bullets to go exactly where I expect them to. Bullets 3 thru 4, or 5, just need to be close, because usually by then the gig is up and at that moment a person is trying to just hit the fleeing critter.

However, the OP didn't ask about using DGX bullets in traditional rifles, he simply asked about thoughts or opinions about the bullet itself, which IMHO I believe is a softly constructed bullet along with the other offerings by Hornady.