Heym 89B

[Daniel Cary]

When I ordered my 450NE 89B (Picture below) there were two frames available in that caliber. I selected the heavier frame as I planned on shooting it a lot. It is not easily decerned from the picture but the heavier frame requires larger diameter barrels at the breech end which makes it appear a little less trim than the light frame doubles. View attachment 465725

I like the Big Barrels .. in a hurry to find out if they build the 89 in .500, strictly on the Gross Box. Thank you.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

So, heavier frame ='s Larger Barrel Profiles?

@Daniel Cary Call Chris Sells the USA Heym representative. He is a great guy and even better Heym rep! A twenty minute call with Chris will afford you an education on Heym rifles.
FYI from my call to Chris, Heym uses six different frame sizes for their double rifles.

https://www.heymusa.com/
Double Gun Imports
Dallas, TX, United States
(214) 606-2566 - info@heymusa.com

 

[Daniel Cary]

@Daniel Cary Call Chris Sells the USA Heym representative. He is a great guy and even better Heym rep! A twenty minute call with Chris will afford you an education on Heym rifles.
FYI from my call to Chris, Heym uses six different frame sizes for their double rifles.

I'm going to try him .. excellent individual to network with. DSC is zeroing in & was going to try prying here a bit...

Thank You!

 

[Bullhunter]

See here the Heym double rifle frames:
01:00
The frame-sises for the bigger calibers

 

[Daniel Cary]

See here the Heym double rifle frames:
01:00
The frame-sises for the bigger calibers

Thank you, when heym-fabrik.de was up, it use to describe all possibilities .. awaiting here, a bit ..

 

[rookhawk]

If memory serves, the Gross box can be ordered with 500NE or 577NE barrels. Why anyone would want to pay nearly double the price to own an overly heavy gross box 500NE rather than a standard 500NE, I do not know. But the price upgrade is substantial for the gross box.

 

[Uintaelkhunter]

From what I have gathered from my talks with Chris and Heym is there are 5 frame sizes if I recall a petite, light, standard, large, and the gross box being the biggest. I’m not sure on what all calibers go with which. I know when I ordered my 450/400 it could be had in the light or the larger sizes. It seems there was about a 1K jump in price for every size you when up in the action. Then the next step up I know of is 470 and 500 nitros can be had in the large frame or the gross box. The 577 nitro can only be made on the gross box action. Again about 1K for each step in action size. Then there seem to be a lot bigger price gaps from grade l to ll up to grade lll as well as many add ons in each class.

Next time I talked to Chris at Heym USA I will see if he can come on and clarify some more.

 

[rookhawk]

If memory serves, the Gross box can be ordered with 500NE or 577NE barrels. Why anyone would want to pay nearly double the price to own an overly heavy gross box 500NE rather than a standard 500NE, I do not know. But the price upgrade is substantial for the gross box.

I was just browsing the pricelists (older ones) from Germany. It appears that with the 89b models, to go to a 577NE Grossbox is about 2500 euros more than a 470 or 500. Not terrible.

I seem to recall in the older catalogs for the 88b, the chasm of price between the Gross Action and the Large action was really substantial. I can't find that older price list to document, but it was specifically discussing the 500 and 577 and it had an English coverpage on an otherwise German "Preislist".

Obsession over action size is not a good use of brain cycles in my opinion. "What does the gun weigh?" is what matters. Especially important to ask what the gun weighs in each caliber if multiple barrel sets are included, because chances are that one of the calibers handles like a pig on the end of a shovel if you put a tiny caliber on a large frame. (thus requiring hugely overbuilt barrels that make it front heavy)

 

[Daniel Cary]

Sorta in retrospect, but just as well, I though the 500 in particular could've fit on the next size down from their large frame, aka Gross Box. I've seen two 89 resales in 500 that appear to be built on the Largest Frame. Just mere curiosity.
Thank you, from all the above.

 

[rookhawk]

Sorta in retrospect, but just as well, I though the 500 in particular could've fit on the next size down from their large frame, aka Gross Box. I've seen two 89 resales in 500 that appear to be built on the Largest Frame. Just mere curiosity.
Thank you, from all the above.

You CAN put a 500NE into a Gross Box action without it being a miserable, overweight junker. The question is why on earth would you want to do so? Answer: Because you bought a 577NE and you want a spare set of more-versatile 500NE barrels for your 577NE specialty gun.

The 470NE and 500NE are the same case, yet Heym doesn't even show the 470NE on the Gross Box in the brochure I'm looking at. Why? Because you'd be the proud owner of a 12.5lb 470NE...yuck.

The "standard" 470NE frame size from Heym is perfect, not only that it can handle 450-400, 450NE, 470NE, and 500NE, but also because it handles 20 gauge shotgun barrels which is a very handy thing to have when on safari for small antelope and wingshooting. (roughly $8000 for a set of shotgun barrels when ordering a new heym) The 375HH and Flanged barrels are also available on your big-bore 470NE frame, but they require very thick walls and are generally less than ideal, but it adds a lot of versatility.

Other members here have the smaller framed guns, such as VertigoBE's 7x65r smallbore Heym built on the petite action that accommodates his 375HH barrels ideally, with only a bit of excess weight and size on his 7mm barrels.

This is all sort of an academic discussion. 99.9% of buyers are going to buy a single barrel set for their Heym double rifle and they will buy the correct frame for that primary caliber. For those buying used Heyms, they're bargain shopping to get as much heym for the money as possible and as a consequence, you get what you get, free bonus barrels that are less than ideal but are offered on a used package basis for a fraction of their replacement cost.


Rough costs: Extra nitro caliber barrels on a new Heym = +$12,000. Extra shotgun barrels on a new Heym = +$8000.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

So, heavier frame ='s Larger Barrel Profiles?
Thank you, when you can.

Yes, but there is some overlap. You can get the 450/400 in the Africa frame, where it is about normal for weight, but it is also available in the light frame. You can get the 500NE in Africa frame, and I think gross box too.

 

[Daniel Cary]

You CAN put a 500NE into a Gross Box action without it being a miserable, overweight junker. The question is why on earth would you want to do so? Answer: Because you bought a 577NE and you want a spare set of more-versatile 500NE barrels for your 577NE specialty gun.

The 470NE and 500NE are the same case, yet Heym doesn't even show the 470NE on the Gross Box in the brochure I'm looking at. Why? Because you'd be the proud owner of a 12.5lb 470NE...yuck.

The "standard" 470NE frame size from Heym is perfect, not only that it can handle 450-400, 450NE, 470NE, and 500NE, but also because it handles 20 gauge shotgun barrels which is a very handy thing to have when on safari for small antelope and wingshooting. (roughly $8000 for a set of shotgun barrels when ordering a new heym) The 375HH and Flanged barrels are also available on your big-bore 470NE frame, but they require very thick walls and are generally less than ideal, but it adds a lot of versatility.

Other members here have the smaller framed guns, such as VertigoBE's 7x65r smallbore Heym built on the petite action that accommodates his 375HH barrels ideally, with only a bit of excess weight and size on his 7mm barrels.

This is all sort of an academic discussion. 99.9% of buyers are going to buy a single barrel set for their Heym double rifle and they will buy the correct frame for that primary caliber. For those buying used Heyms, they're bargain shopping to get as much heym for the money as possible and as a consequence, you get what you get, free bonus barrels that are less than ideal but are offered on a used package basis for a fraction of their replacement cost.


Rough costs: Extra nitro caliber barrels on a new Heym = +$12,000. Extra shotgun barrels on a new Heym = +$8000.

Another good point. Prompted an afterthought, "The 470". Simply, there was a narrow window on an 89 in 500, It is built on the Gross Box .. I started wondering if the 500 & Gross Box were synonymous, that's the only configuration "I've seen" from just a few available listings .. thought a size down could accommodate the 470/500.
Thank You.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Yes, but there is some overlap. You can get the 450/400 in the Africa frame, where it is about normal for weight, but it is also available in the light frame. You can get the 500NE in Africa frame, and I think gross box too.

love this.

 

[rookhawk]

love this.
View attachment 579269

Makes sense to squeeze a 450-400NE into their petite frame IF you’re buying a set of barrels in say 7x65r, or 303 Brit, or 375HH Flanged to go with it. Trying to get the best variety with the least compromises by bundling them together.

On the other hand, getting a 450-400 barrel set on the safari frame means your second set of barrels could be a 470NE or a 500NE…one gun to rule them all with two sets of barrels.

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

Hi Kevin, a few pictures. From Top to bottom.
-88 .470 NE
-89 .450/400
-88 .375 H&H

View attachment 378650View attachment 378651View attachment 378662

Wow bloody nice doubles!

 

[Daniel Cary]

The Jumbo aside, I was under the impression all 88's were built of the same frame.?

They are all beautiful, equally.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

The Jumbo aside, I was under the impression all 88's were built of the same frame.?

They are all beautiful, equally.

Heym used to have a very good web site with a layout and description of all their doubles, in German. Now I can only find information upon their Express range. Anyway, they did indeed offer the 88 in a light weight frame as well.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

When my wife bought her .470 89b, she purchased from Andrew Tonkins who was at that time the importer of Heym in RSA. What a pleasant experience.

Now that we think about it she could have sold her 88b in .450-.400 for close to what she could have bought a second set of .450-.400 barrels for her 89b.

Lon

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

When my wife bought her .470 89b, she purchased from Andrew Tonkins who was at that time the importer of Heym in RSA. What a pleasant experience.

Now that we think about it she could have sold her 88b in .450-.400 for close to what she could have bought a second set of .450-.400 barrels for her 89b.

Lon

Lon, remember that Heyms are Micro CNC machined, I wouldn’t be surprised if you could order those second barrels after the event and I bet they would fit. We have the perfect opportunity to test that theory - I have the 450/400 89b here in Harare.

 

[rookhawk]

I know 88b guns have to go back to Germany to have additonal barrels and forends fitted. $8000ish for shotgun, $12000ish for rifle barrel sets, import-export costs included.

Bottom line, they need to be fitted and ejectors timed on the 88B. I can’t speak for the 89b, but I would be surprised if they were precise enough in tolerances to be universally compatible with other barrels and forends.